If you were an employer, would you hire a Trump supporter?

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
People get pissy about “generalizations” here, I wanted to spare myself from that since I already made that thread. Spare me.

Does this change anything? The baseline assumption is that you're discriminating someone for their political beliefs. Fire them if they're racist. Don't fire them for voting Trump. Judge people on their actions, not on your own prejudices. Again as an employer the idea that I should be allowed to judge and discriminate people on my perception of their political beliefs is unacceptable.

It all hinges on the assumption I'm in the right. This entire thing about dropping all forms of self-constraints and just act like there's no rules or principles because they deserve it only works if, you know, you're absolutely right all the time. Say I decided this is acceptable behaviour, and that I've decided that I can discriminate people with shit ideas, but my perception of what constitutes a shit idea changes? And suddenly I'm not hiring people who voted for someone else.


My policy is don't discriminate, nobody, ever. Be vigilant of their behaviour, be swift in removing them the moment they prove to be what you may suspect them to be, but don't act on presumptions.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
Does this change anything? The baseline assumption is that you're discriminating someone for their political beliefs. Fire them if they're racist. Don't fire them for voting Trump. Judge people on their actions, not on your own prejudices. Again as an employer the idea that I should be allowed to judge and discriminate people on my perception of their political beliefs is unacceptable.

It all hinges on the assumption I'm in the right. This entire thing about dropping all forms of self-constraints and just act like there's no rules or principles because they deserve it only works if, you know, you're absolutely right all the time. Say I decided this is acceptable behaviour, and that I've decided that I can discriminate people with shit ideas, but my perception of what constitutes a shit idea changes? And suddenly I'm not hiring people who voted for someone else.


My policy is don't discriminate, nobody, ever. Be vigilant of their behaviour, be swift in removing them the moment they prove to be what you may suspect them to be, but don't act on presumptions.
Okay, several issues here.

Not hiring isn't the same as firing. I'm not firing anyone in the hypothetical scenario.
Stop using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.
Supporting Trump is a shit idea, that has nothing to do with my perception of things.
 
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4859

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,817
In the weak and the wounded
Are you saying that when democrats elected Hillary Clinton in the primary they knew nothing about her foreign policy?

Are you saying that democrats who voted for Clinton were unaware of the fact that:

- Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war in which half a million Iraqis died, the region became a hell hole and ISIS was birthed.
- While Secretary of State under Obama, Clinton pushed for intervention in Libya and destroyed that country
- Clinton stood in front of AIPAC and pledged her unwavering support and loyalty towards the state of Israel against 'terrorist' Palestinians.

What does it matter if she did not run on her foreign policy platform? People KNOW this is her foreign policy and they STILL voted for her. Because at the end of the day, it only mattered that she was a 'liberal' in American domestic policies.

Hillary Clinton got the support of Bush administration neocon hawks over Trump. Why do you think they supported her over him? Robert Kagan had fundraisers for Clinton.

Do you remember Henry Kissinger? Someone who should be indicted for war crimes by the International criminal court. Clinton praised the guy and wanted his support and mentoring.

And Democrats I would assume know these things. And they just do not care. What does it matter if some 500,000 brown people were killed in the middle east as long as we get a liberal judge in the supreme court, right? Is that not racism?

I suppose that the millions of people who voted for Clinton did not hear this exchange about the Gaza slaughter in 2014 between Clinton and Sanders in their primary debate?

Would you agree with a Palestinian American refusing to hire someone who voted for Hillary Clinton because of her racism against Palestinians and Arabs?

Look, I understand that Trump is bad for America and that he is an openly racist, sexist idiot shitbag. And I am sure that many, many people voted for him for precisely those reasons. But I think there are also many folks who really don't care that he is all these things, if his policies help them get a better life. Are not poor, uneducated whites the majority of the people who voted for him? They are ignorant. They don't care about some black person suffering from racism. They just want a better life for themselves. This is one of the reasons for the rise in anti-immigrant populist nationalism and right wing leaders across the world.

That's why I think it would be important for the next democratic candidate to speak specifically to the issues affecting all Americans. Obama was able to do that - and that's why he won.

I will end here, as this has become a thread derail.

Or maybe they voted for her because the other guys foreign policy was build the wall, Mexicans are rapists and animals, ban the Muslims, my 8 year old can handle the cyber, the nuckear triad is great, its really great, we have the biggest bestest nukes, and Putin's my bestest buddy.

Can the crap dude, your disengenious bullshit has no traction here.
 
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Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Okay, several issues here.

Stop not hiring isn't the same as firing. I'm not firing anyone in the hypothetical scenario.

It's still discrimination. I'm supposed to ask someone who he voted for when I interview him? You can get sued for that in most democratic countries.

Besides, this makes things worse. You would not hire someone because you presume he's a bad person, but you wouldn't fire him when he proves to be? How does that work?

Stop using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.
I didn't do that? I'm simply saying people must be judged on their actions, not on their ideas. Condemn racism, don't condemn voting for Trump. If every Trump voter is also a racist you'll be fine. I don't think the position of power that being an employer puts me in includes having the right to discriminate people based on my belief. I'll regulate their actions, but I don't censor their ideas.

Supporting Trump is a shit idea, that has nothing to do with perception.
Sure, I agree, you agree, we're objectively right, what possibly could go wrong. Except one day I change my mind, I decide that the Hillary supporters are the one with shit ideas because emails or Obama's drones or whatnot, and I'm left with the power to discriminate them because there's literally NOTHING justifying that discrimination aside from the presumption of being right.

I know I'd be right now. I know I could do myself a favour avoiding those people. But if I'm allowed to do it now, I'm allowed to do it when I'll be wrong. Others who don't think like me are going to be allowed to do it. I don't think I want that kind of power in the hands of employers.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
It's still discrimination. I'm supposed to ask someone who he voted for when I interview him? You can get sued for that in most democratic countries.

Besides, this makes things worse. You would not hire someone because you presume he's a bad person, but you wouldn't fire him when he proves to be? How does that work?



I didn't do that? I'm simply saying people must be judged on their actions, not on their ideas. Condemn racism, don't condemn voting for Trump. If every Trump voter is also a racist you'll be fine. I don't think the position of power that being an employer puts me in includes having the right to discriminate people based on my belief. I'll regulate their actions, but I don't censor their ideas.



Sure, I agree, you agree, we're objectively right, what possibly could go wrong. Except one day I change my mind, I decide that the Hillary supporters are the one with shit ideas because emails or Obama's drones or whatnot, and I'm left with the power to discriminate them because there's literally NOTHING justifying that discrimination aside from the presumption of being right.

I know I'd be right now. I know I could do myself a favour avoiding those people. But if I'm allowed to do it now, I'm allowed to do it when I'll be wrong. Others who don't think like me are going to be allowed to do it. I don't think I want that kind of power in the hands of employers.
If this makes you feel like a better person, more power to you.

"It's still discrimination."
It isn't.

"Besides, this makes things worse. You would not hire someone because you presume he's a bad person, but you wouldn't fire him when he proves to be? How does that work"
Who said that? I'm just answering the OP.

"Sure, I agree, you agree, we're objectively right, what possibly could go wrong. Except one day I change my mind, I decide that the Hillary supporters are the one with shit ideas because emails or Obama's drones or whatnot, and I'm left with the power to discriminate them because there's literally NOTHING justifying that discrimination aside from the presumption of being right."

 

Deleted member 36767

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 24, 2017
96
Chicago
Let’s judge people based on other factors than the merit of whether they are good at the job.

That sounds like a fantastic idea! /s

Obviously political discussions generally do not belong in the work place. It amazes me how discriminatory people are who are allegedly left leaning. Unable to have disagreements with others and still work together. (This would also apply to anyone who claims they wouldn’t hire a Hillary supporter, etc.)

Unless you work at some political action committee for left leaning politics or a politician who is left leaning, why would someone’s politics matter when hiring them? We have a history of discrimination in the US and threads like this just remind me that discrimination isn’t going away. We as a society will always find various ways to discriminate against people for one reason or another regardless of merit with supposedly good justifications for that doscrimination.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
Let’s judge people based on other factors than the merit of whether they are good at the job.

That sounds like a fantastic idea! /s

Obviously political discussions generally do not belong in the work place. It amazes me how discriminatory people are who are allegedly left leaning. Unable to have disagreements with others and still work together. (This would also apply to anyone who claims they wouldn’t hire a Hillary supporter, etc.)

Unless you work at some political action committee for left leaning politics or a politician who is left leaning, why would someone’s politics matter when hiring them? We have a history of discrimination in the US and threads like this just remind me that discrimination isn’t going away. We as a society will always find various ways to discriminate against people for one reason or another regardless of merit with supposedly good justifications for that doscrimination.
Man, how indifferent toward our current problems do you have to be to spout this bullshit.

STOP using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
why would a job applicant ever display his/her political affiliation during the interview process?

how would that question and answer ever come up?

if the job applicant is the one who brings up partisan politics during an interview, then that's the applicant's fault

But it is inappropriate for an employer to ask an applicant what their political leanings are
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
why would a job applicant ever display his/her political affiliation during the interview process?

how would that question and answer ever come up?

if the job applicant is the one who brings up partisan politics during an interview, then that's the applicant's fault

But it is inappropriate for an employer to ask an applicant what their political leanings are
Employers check the social media and affiliations of the candidates. That's how you find out. People love to show their ass (metaphorically speaking) on Twitter.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,655
I wouldn't ask, and I would hire the best person for the job. I'm not going to hire an incompetent progressive because they're progressive.
 

Jam_Sandwich

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,339
I never mix politics with work.
I'd expect the same of my colleagues
I'm here and so is everyone else to do a good job for my employer.

So yes I would - while making it clear that they should never say or do anything that could bring the company into disrepute.
(which is standard practice anyway even before trump)
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
This is a great argument - attacking me instead of arguing logically against what I said. Good job.
The problem is you don't see anything wrong with what you just said.

"We have a history of discrimination in the US and threads like this just remind me that discrimination isn’t going away."

First there was slavery.
Then the Jim Crow Era.
Then the interment camps.
Our poor treatment of the LGBTQ community.
Poor treatment of Muslims and anyone brown really.

But you want to throw Trump supporters onto that pile now and then get mad that I'm not taking you seriously. What argument is necessary.

So I'm gonna say what I said again.

Man, how indifferent toward our current problems do you have to be to spout this bullshit.

STOP using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.
 

Deleted member 36767

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 24, 2017
96
Chicago
The problem is you don't see anything wrong with what you just said.

"We have a history of discrimination in the US and threads like this just remind me that discrimination isn’t going away."

First there was slavery.
Then the Jim Crow Era.
Then the interment camps.
Our poor treatment of the LGBTQ community.
Poor treatment of Muslims and anyone brown really.

But you want to throw Trump supporters onto that pile now and then get mad that I'm not taking you seriously. What argument is necessary.

So I'm gonna say what I said again.

Man, how indifferent toward our current problems do you have to be to spout this bullshit.

STOP using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.

Oh so your argument is that this isn’t discrimination? You have a narrow view of the term then which then allows you to use virtue while at the same time discrimate against someone based merely on whether or not they support trump - got ya
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Man, how indifferent toward our current problems do you have to be to spout this bullshit.

STOP using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.

I think what you're missing is this: there is absolutely NOTHING that can be factually cogent that differentiates being able to discriminate people for being Trump supporters and discriminating people for being Hillary supporters or Obama supporters.

The moment discriminating people for their political leaning becomes a possibility, it does for everybody. It does for those Trump supporters who are employers too. I don't want to be able to discriminate because I believe it's the right thing but also because I don't want them to be able to discriminate.

If I can't be held accountable for not hiring people because of their political leanings, nobody else will either. And "It's not the same thing, it's not discrimination!" tantrums won't hold in court. Bury your sense of self-righteousness before letting it enable others'. If the Trump supporters actually are shit people they'll give you plenty of (legal) reasons to fire them.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
Oh so your argument is that this isn’t discrimination? You have a narrow view of the term then which then allows you to use virtue while at the same time discrimate against someone based merely on whether or not they support trump - got ya
So because I don't see not hiring a person because they're black and not hiring a person because they're a Trump supporter as the EXACT SAME THING, my view is narrow? Do I honestly have to sit here and explain how those two things are different. Is that where we are? Because holy shit, if I have to do that, we're in so much fucking trouble.
 

Clix

Banned
Yes dude, I'm disabled. There's no cure for what I've got, I'll have it and it will get worse until the day I die. I likely won't be walking in 10 years. What you went through sounds like hell and I'm glad you're still fighting, that is badass, I know it can't be easy but that should be celebrated. That isn't what privilege is though, it doesn't mean you didn't work hard for what you have, it means on average others have to work much harder for what you have or even less. I'm disabled but as a straight white guy I realize I'm still in an advantageous position which makes it all the more important I have to use that to speak out on injustice when I can. It also isn't a contest. If you're going to see this country for what it is (and what it can be were we to fix our shit) you need to understand how privilege effects everyone, how the institutions in this country are designed to only favor *some* but not all, how the whole system is corrupt down to the bones.
Can you truly not recognize that while your situation fucking *SUCKS*, that you got through it in one piece because of privilege? Because of the resources available to you, the family you were born with, etc, you did better than countless thousands of people have in similar situations. That's the thing that seems to fall on deaf ears in these arguments. Talking about privilege isn't meant to give you the impression that your life is perfect and you should be thankful. It's meant to help you recognize that no matter what shit has happened to you, you're doing better than a lot of people facing the same situation because of things you were born into, or other circumstances. A poor white person born to poor white parents isn't "privileged" in any meaningful sense of the word, but they *do* have white privilege, in the sense that their life might suck, but it would be a lot fucking worse if they were poor and not white.
And this is just one of many, many reasons of why we cannot seem to make progress but the right seems to get their shit together. The left is too fucking busy fighting amongst themselves, devouring their own, virtue signaling, making everything a contest, shaming others who are not as "pure", and in the meantime the right rolls all over us.

I'm the type of person Trump isn't a fan of. Not only am I brown, I am also an immigrant. But this shit, what I see in this thread and from many in this forum.. IS NOT HELPING. I see way more fighting between progressives and other leftists than I see between anybody else, and that's not good. There is no litmus test. Everybody has their own experiences that define them. Instead we should be united on the important issues instead of shit of who has more and who has less privileged amongst a bunch of progressives. In fighting does not help. It does not matter if someone does better than someone else when both people are doing shitty. The person who is doing real bad does should not be thankful and say "well, I could have it worse". That kind of shit gets us nowhere. Yeah, I have had bigotry thrown at me. It sucks. Yeah, I have difficulties being non white. It sucks. At the same time, I can recognize that I have privilege of my own because I lived in a gated community, in a nice area, good school, and so on WHILE my two best friends who are white, lived in the trailer parks and had to deal with abusive households, crime in their area, and cycles of drugs and narcotics... all the while I went to college and have zero student loans because my grandfather paid for everything in full out of pocket, plus paid my rent, and provided me a monthly allowance.

The point is we should never, ever go down this road because it's all well and good to discuss the obvious that there is prejudice against minorities and immigrants out there from many people. But at the end of the day, we should not discount individual experiences nor try to downplay them by saying "Well, that sucks, but let me tell you about this..."

It accomplishes nothing, is insulting, and does not help us at all to remain united. Trust me, there is shit that scares me to. Last week I turned in my citizenship papers, and yeah, I am scared that the officer who interviews me will be a bigot Trump supporter. So yeah, I understand the fears of being a minority as well.

But what is happening in this thread is not how we make progress and try to truly bring progressive ideals to the country and move it forward. Because let me tell you, the big issue and why rich bigots can get away with it, is that they are taking the inherent class issues in this country and making it into a racial issue and using that fear, while many Trump supporters and many former democrats fail to realize that the core of it is class and income inequality and they have way more in common with minorities than those rich bigots who don't care about them at all laughing their way to the bank because they want to remain at the top.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
The problem is you don't see anything wrong with what you just said.

"We have a history of discrimination in the US and threads like this just remind me that discrimination isn’t going away."

First there was slavery.
Then the Jim Crow Era.
Then the interment camps.
Our poor treatment of the LGBTQ community.
Poor treatment of Muslims and anyone brown really.

But you want to throw Trump supporters onto that pile now and then get mad that I'm not taking you seriously. What argument is necessary.

So I'm gonna say what I said again.

Man, how indifferent toward our current problems do you have to be to spout this bullshit.

STOP using rhetoric about the prejudices minorities face to describe Trump supporters, it's insulting.

Thing is, until you somehow manage to put into law that some people are below the law and can be safely discriminated because they deserve it, if you allow discrimination you allow it for everybody. And since the law has to be objective, the law doesn't care about what you think discrimination is and what isn't. There's not going to be a comma that says "You can't discriminate people based on their political leanings, unless they're Trump supporters, because those are certified assholes who had it coming".


In my country, I can get sued if a person I didn't hire or fire proves I did because of her political ideas. That would include Trump supporters, and that's how things should be. You don't throw everyone under the bus to appease your desire for vendetta.
 

JMeth

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
251
Illinois
I live in rural Illinois, If I didn't hire Trump supporters and conservatives I wouldn't be able to run a business. There aren't enough democrats here to even call them a demographic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
149
Why should I be tolerant or civil toward potential racists as a minority?
You shouldn't be civil towards racist, but then again I'm in the minority in thinking not every conservative is a racist. I'm completey fine having different viewpoints as someone and still able to get along. Now if they are racist and show that to me, then yes, they can piss off.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
I think what you're missing is this: there is absolutely NOTHING that can be factually cogent that differentiates being able to discriminate people for being Trump supporters and discriminating people for being Hillary supporters or Obama supporters.

The moment discriminating people for their political leaning becomes a possibility, it does for everybody. It does for those Trump supporters who are employers too. I don't want to be able to discriminate because I believe it's the right thing but also because I don't want them to be able to discriminate.

If I can't be held accountable for not hiring people because of their political leanings, nobody else will either. And "It's not the same thing, it's not discrimination!" tantrums won't hold in court. Bury your sense of self-righteousness before letting it enable others'. If the Trump supporters actually are shit people they'll give you plenty of (legal) reasons to fire them.
* sigh * supporting Trump isn't a simple matter of he's the name you circled on a ballot. It's not the same as simply being a Republican that voted for McCain or Romney. You know this. Which makes it all the more frustrating that you're making me explain this. Voting for Trump isn't simply liking orange juice more than apple juice. It's supporting a cancerous movement that is actively hurting our country.
 

_ifigured

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,215
Unless you are ICE, it would be purely idiotic to hire a known trump supporter in this day and age. I've seen firsthand that they become a walking, talking HR incident waiting to happen. I think we've all seen cases of videos and photos of people at Klan-lite rallies and marches or just harassing people on the street, and they end up losing their job once they are outed. They aren't meant to coexist with the rest of humanity.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
You shouldn't be civil towards racist, but then again I'm in the minority in thinking not every conservative is a racist. I'm completey fine having different viewpoints as someone and still able to get along. Now if they are racist and show that to me, then yes, they can piss off.
I'm not arguing conservative = Trump supporter.
 

DrForester

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,163
Absolutely.

1. I would never have to give them a raise. Just tell them what a good job they're doing, and that maybe we can swing it next year.
2. When they end up going on some racist tirade, I get to fire them, and get some good PR for firing them.
 

Deleted member 36767

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 24, 2017
96
Chicago
So because I don't see not hiring a person because they're black and not hiring a person because they're a Trump supporter as the EXACT SAME THING, my view is narrow? Do I honestly have to sit here and explain how those two things are different. Is that where we are? Because holy shit, if I have to do that, we're in so much fucking trouble.

Yes. You have to tell me how discrimation based on anything other than merit is a good idea if the person is the best qualified candidate, etc. for a particular position. You still haven’t explained that. You still haven’t explained how this is not discrimination. Again, your arguments are based on how virtuous you allege yourself to be. I don’t need to explain to you that discrimination on anything other than merit is a bad idea. You should know this as it is self evident. How old are you? I would guess between 18-25 if you think discrination based on political views is a good idea. If you were older and worked various jobs you would understand how ludicrous the whole idea is.
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
1,303
Or maybe they voted for her because the other guys foreign policy was build the wall, Mexicans are rapists and animals, ban the Muslims, my 8 year old can handle the cyber, the nuckear triad is great, its really great, we have the biggest bestest nukes, and Putin's my bestest buddy.

Can the crap dude, your disengenious bullshit has no traction here.
Bernie Sanders wanted to build a wall, ban muslims and become Putin's best friend?

Wow, I must have missed all this on the news. I did not realize Bernie was such a villain!

keep whataboutism-ing intellectually dishonest gaslighter
So I guess your answer is no, you don't care about the American government's racist foreign policy of getting hundreds of thousands of people killed around the world. Okay, I got it. Thanks for answering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6VCzhWy-Kk

And one of Trump's first moves when he became president was to remove public scrutiny related to drone strikes. Just because you don't hear about it in the news doesn't mean they have stopped. It is very likely that they have intensified, on the contrary, since there is no more backlash at home.

So, if you're really opposed to drone strikes, don't try to divert the discussion with "both sides" rethoric. It is counter-productive.
So? Yeah, Trump has authorized drone strikes. Are you saying that justifies Obama's?

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30...emen-trump-just-killed-his-8-year-old-sister/

Two weeks after the killing of Awlaki, a separate CIA drone strike in Yemen killed his 16-year-old American-born son, Abdulrahman, along with the boy’s 17-year-old cousin and several other innocent Yemenis. The U.S. eventually claimed that the boy was not their target but merely “collateral damage.” Abdulrahman’s grief-stricken grandfather, Nasser al-Awlaki, urged the Washington Post “to visit a Facebook memorial page for Abdulrahman,” which explained: “Look at his pictures, his friends, and his hobbies. His Facebook page shows a typical kid.”

In a hideous symbol of the bipartisan continuity of U.S. barbarism, Nasser al-Awlaki just lost another one of his young grandchildren to U.S. violence. On Sunday, the Navy’s SEAL Team 6, using armed Reaper drones for cover, carried out a commando raid on what it said was a compound harboring officials of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. A statement issued by President Trump lamented the death of an American service member and several others who were wounded, but made no mention of any civilian deaths. But reports from Yemen quickly surfaced that 30 people were killed, including 10 women and children. Among the dead: the 8-year-old granddaughter of Nasser al-Awlaki, Nawar, who was also the daughter of Anwar Awlaki.
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30...emen-trump-just-killed-his-8-year-old-sister/

Nasser al-awlaki lost his 16 year old grandson to Obama's drone and his 8 year old grand-daughter to Trump's drone. If you go ask him, do you think he sees a difference between Obama and Trump?



This kid was American. Killed by Obama's drone. While having tea in a cafe. But of course I am just 'gaslighting' people here by mentioning all this. Let's go back to discussing how evil Trump is and how anyone who voted for him should not be hired for a job.
 
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Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
Yes. You have to tell me how discrimation based on anything other than merit is a good idea if the person is the best qualified candidate, etc. for a particular position. You still haven’t explained that. You still haven’t explained how this is not discrimination. Again, your arguments are based on how virtuous you allege yourself to be. I don’t need to explain to you that discrimination on anything other than merit is a bad idea. You should know this as it is self evident. How old are you? I would guess between 18-25 if you think discrination based on political views is a good idea. If you were older and worked various jobs you would understand how ludicrous the whole idea is.
I'm gonna go stick my head in water and scream.

This post actively makes you part of the problem.

I repeat.

* sigh * supporting Trump isn't a simple matter of he's the name you circled on a ballot. It's not the same as simply being a Republican that voted for McCain or Romney. You know this. Which makes it all the more frustrating that you're making me explain this. Voting for Trump isn't simply liking orange juice more than apple juice. It's supporting a cancerous movement that is actively hurting our country.

Merit, is FACTOR. There are also things called people facing jobs. You represent me and my company. You talk to clients, you talk to my other employees, any of whom may be minorities who feel a type of way about your boy Trump, but hey, they don't matter, we have to make sure the Trump supporter is treated fairly.

Again, merit is a factor. Are you bringing in a helpful fresh perspective, do you get along well with others, are you a good culture fit, are you tolerant of other people who don't look like you?

These are other things that go into the hiring process.

My job hired a guy "on merit" and a month into the job he told me he didn't want to use my hands for a picture he needed because they were "too black". But no, anything besides merit is a bad idea.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,521
I didn't do that? I'm simply saying people must be judged on their actions, not on their ideas. Condemn racism, don't condemn voting for Trump. If every Trump voter is also a racist you'll be fine. I don't think the position of power that being an employer puts me in includes having the right to discriminate people based on my belief. I'll regulate their actions, but I don't censor their ideas.
Ignoring the fact that openly supporting Trump's platform is a bigoted action, not just a differing political opinion, I do think you make a good point here. From my social media experience, I find anyone who I would know for a fact is a Trump supporter (presumably through some sort of social media post) has made racist/mysogonistic/homophobic/Islamaphobic posts acompying their support. For the most part I think it would be a self correcting issue.
 
Oct 25, 2017
149
I'm not arguing conservative = Trump supporter.
That we can agree on.

Curiosity question (and slightly off topic) that popped in my head that i dont know the answer to. Assuming you disagree with most of the democrat platform and voted for Kasich or Rubio in primaries. Wouldn't writing in a nominee such as Romney or voting 3rd party lead to the vitriol from other conservatives the same way dems have at people that wrote in Bernie or voted 3rd party?

Also, I hope you told the "guy on merit" to kindly f*** himself about your hands.
 

Deleted member 36767

User requested account closure
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Dec 24, 2017
96
Chicago
I'm gonna go stick my head in water and scream.

This post actively makes you part of the problem.

I repeat.

* sigh * supporting Trump isn't a simple matter of he's the name you circled on a ballot. It's not the same as simply being a Republican that voted for McCain or Romney. You know this. Which makes it all the more frustrating that you're making me explain this. Voting for Trump isn't simply liking orange juice more than apple juice. It's supporting a cancerous movement that is actively hurting our country.

Merit, is FACTOR. There are also things called people facing jobs. You represent me and my company. You talk to clients, you talk to my other employees, any of whom may be minorities who feel a type of way about your boy Trump, but hey, they don't matter, we have to make sure the Trump supporter is treated fairly.

Again, merit is a factor. Are you bringing in a helpful fresh perspective, do you get along well with others, are you a good culture fit, are you tolerant of other people who don't look like you?

These are other things that go into the hiring process.

My job hired a guy "on merit" and a month into the job he told me he didn't want to use my hands for a picture he needed because they were "too black". But no, anything besides merit is a bad idea.

Well first off, I think that what was done to you at work is wrong. Secondly, I don’t support trump - but I deal with numerous different ideologies every day as part of my job. It’s just the way of things. I would consider what happened to you at work part of “merit” of how that person treats others in the workplace.

I didn’t know this was actually personal for you.
I should have guessed that.

I will not be responding any longer. Have a good day.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
Well first off, I think that what was done to you at work is wrong. Secondly, I don’t support trump - but I deal with numerous different ideologies every day as part of my job. It’s just the way of things. I would consider what happened to you at work part of “merit” of how that person treats others in the workplace.

I didn’t know this was actually personal for you.
I should have guessed that.

I will not be responding any longer. Have a good day.
It's not a personal thing. I gave an example since you didn't think I knew what I was talking about. You said some shit that I fully expect you to stand by now. No cherrypicking,

I would never ask, but if they brought it up, probably pass on them.
Thank you. It really is that simple.
 
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ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,469
I would question the professionalism of someone who would bring up politics during an interview in general, Trump fan or not. Considering that I would want ethical employees and I find taking children away from their families unethical and that Trump's businesses have been investigated for unethical things, I definitely would be hesitant to hire someone who willingly shares their fondness of him.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,521
Thing is, until you somehow manage to put into law that some people are below the law and can be safely discriminated because they deserve it, if you allow discrimination you allow it for everybody. And since the law has to be objective, the law doesn't care about what you think discrimination is and what isn't. There's not going to be a comma that says "You can't discriminate people based on their political leanings, unless they're Trump supporters, because those are certified assholes who had it coming".


In my country, I can get sued if a person I didn't hire or fire proves I did because of her political ideas. That would include Trump supporters, and that's how things should be. You don't throw everyone under the bus to appease your desire for vendetta.
That's all well and good for you, but here it varies from state to state. The Republican Party in general (and this president in particular) doesn't believe LGBTQ people should be protected from being fired simply because they are LGBTQ people, for example. Because they already discriminate against people for not just their choices but who they are, I don't see why they should be treated as a protected class on principle alone when you don't have to. As of right now, adhering to those principles may be a unilateral decision giving a pass to those who took action against the disadvantaged, and who support an even greater amount of discriminatory actions.

Naturally, whatever your laws and company guidelines are, you have to abide by those rules.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
That's all well and good for you, but here it varies from state to state. The Republican Party in general (and this president in particular) doesn't believe LGBTQ people should be protected from being fired simply because they are LGBTQ people, for example. Because they already discriminate against people for not just their choices but who they are, I don't see why they should be treated as a protected class on principle alone when you don't have to. As of right now, adhering to those principles may be a unilateral decision giving a pass to those who took action against the disadvantaged, and who support an even greater amount of discriminatory actions.

Naturally, whatever your laws and company guidelines are, you have to abide by those rules.

I think what the Republican party believes counts for jack shit if the law forbids discrimination on the workplace based on gender or sexual orientation, like it does in pretty much every western country in the world. I seriously hope it's the same in the US.

The core principle is the same however. If you start from a position where nobody is protected from discrimination, then "fuck those people, I'll discriminate them too!" is an understandable position, but you should aspire to a situation where all ideas, orientations and identity are protected from discrimination.

Because that protects the people who deserve to be protected too. And the people who don't will out themselves somehow. Voting Trump can't be legally relevant, but hate speech, racism and misoginy are, and can be used to fire people. Safeguard the sanctity of ideas and let their actions condemn themselves.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,682
If someone suddenly volunteered their views to me in an interview, I'd be skeptical of them because that'd be a weird thing to do and I'd imagine if they're going to mention it to me in an interview, then it's something that'll disrupt their work.

But, if it's just magic, and I just know by magic or some dark arts, then I'm not sure. Even in a state like Massachusetts or a city like Boston, close to 30% of people voted for Trump. Now, maybe that's because they didn't like Clinton or were naive about him or something, but... that's still 30% or close to it, and with the labor shortage we have especially in key industries like tech, I don't think that my hypothetical company could survive excluding ~30% of the applicants off the bat for something technically unrelated to their work. And that's in the most liberal, most democratic, most educated state in the country.

An example I have in my industry is that we have a lot of religious and ethnic diversity, but typically from India, China, and the Middle East. I know that a lot of my employees/peers have radically different political views than I do, as many of my peers are deeply religious. There's some statistical certainty that a large minority of my coworkers have very traditionalist views on the role of women, gender equality, and other traditionalist points of view... they're from places like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, and more traditionalist/conservative provinces in India. Now, none of them can vote in American elections, so they couldn't vote for Trump or vote against Trump, but it's a safe bet that many share similar social beliefs to, say, Jeff Sessions. Their preferred book may be different, but the implementation of that book in their preferred society doesn't differ very much. I'm not in charge of hiring so this isn't something that I would ever be in a position to take action on, but it wouldn't be right (or legal) to disqualify those candidates based on that, even in the hypothetical situation of this thread where I know their traditionalist or conservatives views by magic.

The convenient and legal way to handle this when it comes to hiring is to state your company's social mission clearly, and make social mission a focus for hiring. If your company's social mission makes diversity a key lynchipin of the company, as many do, then someone who is against diversity (and I don't mean just racial diversity, but gender, racial, ethnic, sexual, age, etc, diversity) and makes it a part of their work identity, then they clearly wouldn't be a good fit for your company and would disrupt your company's goals. As part of our annual reviews, you're obviously judged on your work performance but a major section of the review is how well you embrace the company's mission which includes the social mission: People who are catostrophically bad at the social mission typically end up performing poorly in the overall mission of the company, and it's a matter of time before they weed themselves out or fall behind their peers, or are fired.


*Edit: ORiginally thought it was 60/40 Clinton/Trump in 2016, it was 60/32, forgot about Gary Johnson and 'other' on the MA Ballot returns.
 
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DR2K

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,946
I'd probably find something racist and vile on social media and have to fire them regardless.

Hatred of others isn't a political belief.
 

Dragoon

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,868
Who someone supports has nothing to do with the job. Personality on how they get along with others and skills/experience determine whether someone should be working or not. I'm Canadian, so this is even less relevance to me (though dem tariffs right now...). My ex-boss and a few people at our place are fans of Trump actually. The echo chamber in here is real, but it's never affected work in the slightest. This topic is embarrassing.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
Oh I still stand by every single thing I said. Period.
Guess I'll go find a Trump supporter on an unemployment line to bond with. What was the name of that New York lawyer who got fired for yelling at that woman to get out of the country. Surely, he knows what it's like to be discriminated against.

Who someone supports has nothing to do with the job. Personality on how they get along with others and skills/experience determine whether someone should be working or not. I'm Canadian, so this is even less relevance to me (though dem tariffs right now...). My ex-boss and a few people at our place are fans of Trump actually. The echo chamber in here is real, but it's never affected work in the slightest. This topic is embarrassing.
Your bubble isn't the standard for everyone's work environment.

I'd probably find something racist and vile on social media and have to fire them regardless.

Hatred of others isn't a political belief.
Exactly. Visanideth
 

AndrewDean84

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,095
Fontana, California
Id only hire a good person for the job. How can someone be a Trump supporter, and be good person?

They're ok with the racism, sexually assaults and now his administration is killing babies in their internment camps.
 

The Grizz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,832
If they're good at what they're doing, sure, why not.
This. I'm surprised at all the hard nopes in this thread. A good employer wouldn't discriminate on political beliefs. If the person can do their job well and is not toxic to the team environment, then let them work there. I used to sit by a staunch Republican and boy was he obnoxious, but he did his job well and didn't bring the team down in any way.
 

AndrewDean84

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,095
Fontana, California
This. I'm surprised at all the hard nopes in this thread. A good employer wouldn't discriminate on political beliefs. If the person can do their job well and is not toxic to the team environment, then let them work there. I used to sit by a staunch Republican and boy was he obnoxious, but he did his job well and didn't bring the team down in any way.
I think there's a difference between Republican and a Trump supporter though.
 

Bobo Dakes

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
25,141
This. I'm surprised at all the hard nopes in this thread. A good employer wouldn't discriminate on political beliefs. If the person can do their job well and is not toxic to the team environment, then let them work there. I used to sit by a staunch Republican and boy was he obnoxious, but he did his job well and didn't bring the team down in any way.
Would you give this same answer if the OP replaced "Trump supporter" with "Nazi sympathizer".