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Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,008
Reality: PC is the best for indie games. Superior graphics, better performance and CHEAPER (or even free sometimes)

The Switch now reminds me of the early days of the PS4, except it's far worse. The PS4 was always getting major third party games, it wasn't ignored.
I don't really agree, as many indie games are not graphically intensive, so playing on a PC is pointless. Something like Hollow Knight is clearly better played on the Switch as you lose nothing, but gain portability. Certainly there are tons of indie games that fall in that same category.
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Because Vita got not hyped for their great indie compatibility but Switch is now the revolution....
vita never got this level of indie support. switch is now basically the main platform for most indie games. vita got some nice late ports and some day 1 versions, but it was never as important for indies as switch is right now
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
vita never got this level of indie support. switch is now basically the main platform for most indie games. vita got some nice late ports and some day 1 versions, but it was never as important for indies as switch is right now

Maybe not the same level of support but a lot of high quality indies over a few years.
 

Deleted member 10737

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Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Maybe not the same level of support but a lot of high quality indies over a few years.
for sure, it ended up having an amazing library of indie games. but as far as this article is concerned, it was never the best place for indies. it was mostly an afterthought for them. in comparison, switch is getting all the big indie games, sometimes even before other platforms, and indies are making most of their money on switch+pc.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
Reality: PC is the best for indie games. Superior graphics, better performance and CHEAPER (or even free sometimes)

The Switch now reminds me of the early days of the PS4, except it's far worse. The PS4 was always getting major third party games, it wasn't ignored.

I disagree with this. Hollow Knight, Stardew, Celeste, Shovel Knight, and many many other won't have any graphical advantage on PC plus they don't have the portable factor that the Switch has. So the best place to play Indie games is not the PC for many of the indies.
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
Because Vita got not hyped for their great indie compatibility but Switch is now the revolution....

Here's the all-time best Vita games on MC after during its lifetime:
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/vita/filtered?sort=desc&view=condensed

Here's the all-time best Switch games on MC after 2 years on the market:
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/switch/filtered?sort=desc&view=condensed

In what way are these lists numerically comparable?
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
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May 9, 2018
5,741
it really isnt. Its missing new games that just came out this year let alone 2017 and 2018.

Its a great way to play games but it is in now way the best place to play new games.
 

Linde

Banned
Sep 2, 2018
3,983
That was a good video. Glad to see all these Happy devs, loving the system
And hearing all the success stories around it helps even more

Lmao at some of the posts itt
 

Evil Lucario

Member
Feb 16, 2019
448
I disagree with this. Hollow Knight, Stardew, Celeste, Shovel Knight, and many many other won't have any graphical advantage on PC plus they don't have the portable factor that the Switch has. So the best place to play Indie games is not the PC for many of the indies.

While I mostly agree, PC also has the advantage of mods for games that support it. For example, Stardew Valley has a metric-ton of mods that can give its own fun that no other platform can give.
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
Here's the all-time best Vita games on MC after during its lifetime:
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/vita/filtered?sort=desc&view=condensed

Here's the all-time best Switch games on MC after 2 years on the market:
https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/switch/filtered?sort=desc&view=condensed

In what way are these lists numerically comparable?

I wrote that the Vita was also amazing for indies and not that the numbers are comparable.

Since the Vita is dead, I don't play many indies or only VR indie games.
Would like a smaller HH only Switch.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
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May 9, 2018
5,741
new indie games. it's in the title. what big indie game is missing?
the title is actually just new games which in that case its not. Its not even 3rd.

INDIE games now is a better argument but I would still be inclined to at the very least put it under PC as it has a much more rich variety of indie titles you just dont see on Switch.
If on the go gaming is something that is super important to you tho like for example if you go on planes a lot due to work then its a much better suited system as long as you also arent caring a laptop
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
the title is actually just new games which in that case its not. Its not even 3rd.

INDIE games now is a better argument but I would still be inclined to at the very least put it under PC as it has a much more rich variety of indie titles you just dont see on Switch.

I'm pretty sure this thread is about the article and the content of the clip, not about the title of the thread.
 

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
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Dec 21, 2017
6,639
Because Vita got not hyped for their great indie compatibility but Switch is now the revolution....

lol

I don't remember Sony pushing indies the way Nintendo is doing it basically every 2-3 months with dedicated indies Directs and some indie appeareance on the major ones, big PAX booths for the indies, partnerships with indie publishers, cross collaborations with indie developers,...

The whole "Switch is the full realization of Vita" is so false, because Sony never did the work behind to support the growth of an ecosystem, it's not just a matter of how many indie games you have on your platform, it was all good only in theory with the Vita, while with PS4 yes they did it for like a year and a half, to fill the gap until their first party lineup was ready, and pretty sure they'll do the same now with PS5.
 

Deleted member 43077

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May 9, 2018
5,741
I'm pretty sure this thread is about the article and the content of the clip, not about the title of the thread.
the title of the video and article is new games last time i checked.

Like I said, new games in general hell no.

Indie games? yea its pretty nice but id still say its 2nd to PC unless gaming on the go is a big part of your daily routine.

edit: should make it clear before someone tells me, yes I have read the article and watched the video
 

Yep

Member
Dec 14, 2017
531
Are people even understanding what it is about? The point is not the best place to PLAY new games, it's the best place to MAKE games, since it seems Nintendo are here to help, listen, etc...
Indies/AAA are not even concerned in particular, since it seems Nintendo helps anyone which want to make games on Switch, i think i remember panic button saying something similar...
 

Deleted member 34239

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Nov 24, 2017
1,154
Yeah, all what, less than 10 of them?
Which coincidentally is still more support than the switch is getting. The truth of the matter is that the big third party AAA publishers are ignoring the switch. My hope was that with a unified platform, Nintendo's output would increase and become more varied. Unfortunately, its becoming clear that despite having only one platform to develop for, they were woefully under prepared. On the OS side, they're lagging behind even the Wii U and on the software side, there's room for improvement. The idea that the switch is the best place to play anything other than Nintendo games is frankly ludicrous. There is no quantitative or qualitative metric that validates that statement.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
Which coincidentally is still more support than the switch is getting. The truth of the matter is that the big third party AAA publishers are ignoring the switch. My hope was that with a unified platform, Nintendo's output would increase and become more varied. Unfortunately, its becoming clear that despite having only one platform to develop for, they were woefully under prepared. On the OS side, they're lagging behind even the Wii U and on the software side, there's room for improvement. The idea that the switch is the best place to play anything other than Nintendo games is frankly ludicrous. There is no quantitative or qualitative metric that validates that statement.
The high end AAA are still largely skipping Switch yes, but there are clear reasons for that (storage and/or performance). Every major publisher is supporting Switch though, including every publisher that makes AAA games.

I'd say Switch is the place to play pretty much everything but that AAA shortlist. Indies, remasters, Japanese, retro, all are in great shape on Switch. And Nintendo's own 1st party lineup destroys any other 1st party aligned for a HD console yet, including Wii U.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
Because Vita got not hyped for their great indie compatibility but Switch is now the revolution....

Vita was not even nearly that important for Indies as Switch is. Vita was mainly a platform for very niche japanese games and an afterthought for most other publishers/Indies. Switch eShop is the most important platform for Indies at the moment.
 

Deleted member 34239

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Nov 24, 2017
1,154
The high end AAA are still largely skipping Switch yes, but there are clear reasons for that (storage and/or performance). Every major publisher is supporting Switch though, including every publisher that makes AAA games.

I'd say Switch is the place to play pretty much everything but that AAA shortlist. Indies, remasters, Japanese, retro, all are in great shape on Switch. And Nintendo's own 1st party lineup destroys any other 1st party aligned for a HD console yet, including Wii U.
I disagree. Every single modern system including some phones offer better performance, visuals and online experience than the switch. Retro games run best on PC. Botw runs best on PC. Indie games run best on PC and have mod support. The OS is better on all other platforms. The online experience is better on all other platforms. The PC's library is far bigger than that of the switch. When it comes to new indie games, there are far more on the PC than there are on the Switch. It is factually incorrect to claim that the switch is the best place to play games. It may be a place the place that you prefer to play but, by all available metrics, the switch is not remotely even close to being the best place to play.
 

Epilexia

Member
Jan 27, 2018
2,675
And IGN still needs to review 'Baba Is You', the most praised indie release this year, and currently the best selling Switch title in most of the countries.

But hey, they create videos trying to look like an authority with any knowledge of the current indie scene, or what are the current trends.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,445
Ibis Island
One thing this article/video reminds me of is how hard it is for indies to make stuff not in the 2D space. I hope that's something we start to see less of as more tools become available. As much as I love 2D platformers/metroidvanias id love to see more 3D landscapes by indie devs.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
I disagree. Every single modern system including some phones offer better performance, visuals and online experience than the switch. Retro games run best on PC. Botw runs best on PC. Indie games run best on PC and have mod support. The OS is better on all other platforms. The online experience is better on all other platforms. The PC's library is far bigger than that of the switch. When it comes to new indie games, there are far more on the PC than there are on the Switch. It is factually incorrect to claim that the switch is the best place to play games. It may be a place the place that you prefer to play but, by all available metrics, the switch is not remotely even close to being the best place to play.
Running best isn't the only metric for best. Switch still runs most games best handheld though.
 

OldBritBloke

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,237
I grow ever more envious of my son's Switch. I await the announcement of the new hardware with great interest.
 

Nocturnal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,321
Just came across the article, great to see Nintendo putting in the effort to promote, curate and develop relationships with indies
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
One thing this article/video reminds me of is how hard it is for indies to make stuff not in the 2D space. I hope that's something we start to see less of as more tools become available. As much as I love 2D platformers/metroidvanias id love to see more 3D landscapes by indie devs.
Unless asset creation can be severely sped up, 3d is just insanely more time consuming than even the most intricate hand drawn 2d game. (Unless you make abstract cubes)
Like creating a simple gun can take days with modelling, texturing and rigging.
In 2d you can put out a working asset in a day.
Not counting designing and iterating.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,157
feeling pretty vindicated by this. prior to the switch launching (and even while it was nx), i made an argument that nintendo could generate a new ecosystem for themselves that wouldn't need to rely on the aaa hype cycle that dominates other platforms. that without aaa-games from western and japanese developers, nintendo's library would be their traditional console and traditional handheld games, as well as the place to get lesser-known japanese content as well as family-focused games, and it could also be a place where indie games do well. two years after launch and they've managed to successfully create an audience that places value on retro-style games, japanese games, and smaller projects.

these sorts of games also launch on other platforms, but because sony and microsoft don't make efforts to cater to these audiences in a meaningful way, it never grows. having booth space at gdc is not meaningless, but if you're not talking them up, pushing them in front of your audience, and specifically selling your system because your platform is different, then you're never going to grow that segment of the market. another example would be microsoft in particular making it super hard for niche publishers to put games on their systems with huge minimum order requirements and a lack of outreach to japanese developers. the xbox 360 had been a strong effort in trying to grow this base and they were somewhat successful with it. once they stopped, that market essentially vanished on xbox one to the point where it might be even worse than the original xbox.
 

Deleted member 135

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Oct 25, 2017
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To be fair any indie that heavily uses a d-pad is not played best on Switch unless you use a third party controller adapter. I would not have bought The Messenger on my Switch if I wasn't having an adapter to use my DualShock 4 with it.
 

Deleted member 8593

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Oct 26, 2017
27,176
It's the best place to play games because it's the only one I have time for, simple as that.
yeshrug.png
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
I disagree. Every single modern system including some phones offer better performance, visuals and online experience than the switch. Retro games run best on PC. Botw runs best on PC. Indie games run best on PC and have mod support. The OS is better on all other platforms. The online experience is better on all other platforms. The PC's library is far bigger than that of the switch. When it comes to new indie games, there are far more on the PC than there are on the Switch. It is factually incorrect to claim that the switch is the best place to play games. It may be a place the place that you prefer to play but, by all available metrics, the switch is not remotely even close to being the best place to play.

It's factually incorrect to claim that it's factually incorrect to claim that the Switch is the best place to play. :-)

Nobody have - or use - all available metrics, so it is a silly claim. Everyone cherrypicks their own set of available metrics.

For example: metrics that are important to me, which you left out:
* Number of seconds it takes change my play of a running game from going from screen+surround sound system to portable mode, because I need to continue play the game elsewhere.
* Number of times per month I do NOT have to be forced to update the game loader, just to be able to play the game I have purchased.
* Number of seconds I do NOT have to wait for the machine to boot.
* HD rumble support (yep, it's important to me)

A couple of years ago, I played most of my indie and 3rd party games on PC, and I've played on the PC since the very first 8086 PC. Yet, currently I have almost totally abandoned playing games on PC for the Switch, because playing on PC just isn't fun, and it doesn't suit my current lifestyle at all. It's not fun to boot the PC and wait to do a quick run of a game. It's not fun to be forced to update the Steam or EA Origin loader all the time. It's not fun to be forced to re-assure that it's my own Steam account all the time. It's not fun to discover/solve how a Windows update broke some of my games. It's not fun to make sure all drivers are set up correctly, or to tweak settings so the game runs as well as possible on my machine. Bringing my portable PC to play somewhere else is theoretically doable, but it's also very inconvenient. PC easily becomes a focus on solving/handling technical things rather than playing games, IMO. Switch is just about playing games and nothing else. With my lifestyle, that game-only/quick-play focus on Switch is the kind of metrics that is most important to me, to be able to get any substantial gameplay at all.
 

Deleted member 3897

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Oct 25, 2017
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I play all my indie games on PC simply because I want the best performance, free Cloud and modding/cheating options.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 59

Guest
I've never bought as many Indies as i have on Switch, so for me, personally, it is the best Indie platform.

Pick up and play/convenience of handheld switch, combined with most Indies running very well in it, make for a win in my books.
 

AfropunkNyc

Member
Nov 15, 2017
3,958
Stop buying certain indie games on PC, so i could get them on the switch. Some indie games i end up repurchasing on switch even though i have em on steam already. The switch is a great indie device. I also love how Nintendo been pushing indies since the Wii.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
To be fair any indie that heavily uses a d-pad is not played best on Switch unless you use a third party controller adapter. I would not have bought The Messenger on my Switch if I wasn't having an adapter to use my DualShock 4 with it.
Hottake but the switch button d pad works just fine
 

AM_LIGHT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,725
I have a pro , XBX and a capable laptop, but I buy everything indie on the switch, it's perfect for non graphically intensive games.
 

banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
4,127
I feel like the majority of people in this thread are completely unaware of what the word "becoming" means. It means it's not there yet, but it is getting there. So stop citing example of games it doesn't have and take note of the fact that more and more are starting to show up.