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Mani

Member
Jan 14, 2018
610
London
It's not just the graphics and the animations, a strong visual direction is lacking in most parts.. It feels like few set pieces are great concept art driven while other areas are just jarringly boring and lacking. Rise didn't have this problem to such a degree and a level of consistency and visual direction was maintained for the most part.
I can't compare fully because it's not out yet so I'll see how the game feels overall when it's out but the trailers so far have been less than encouraging.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,501
I already preordered OP

I am sure it will be awesome if you like Rise and 2013.

I also hear it looks beautiful from people who played it at E3. I am it will shine with the X..
I have no doubt.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
There's a part in the gameplay demonstration they showed at E3 where Lara approaches two guards who are having a back and forth conversation with eachother. Lara kills one, then the other sees his body (the guy he was just having a conversation with mere seconds ago) and says "we've got a body here! looks recent!"

This is a video game thing and is not really surprising -- it's one of those little quirks with dynamic game systems that we're accustomed to. What was confusing to me wasn't that it happened, but that it was what they chose to show. Something's kind of off here. I hope they get it together by release, though, because I'm a fan of the series.
I thought the same and got reminded of this

t5eQiRW.jpg
 

daniel77733

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,639
If anything, Shadow looks better to me than Rise and that looked great. Only complaint is Lara's face. Will never understand why so many developers/publishers change the faces of the characters with each game. Unless the character is getting a lot older, they should stay the same as in the previous game. Game is day one though and will be pre-ordered in August before my GCU expires.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,360
If anything, Shadow looks better to me than Rise and that looked great. Only complaint is Lara's face. Will never understand why so many developers/publishers change the faces of the characters with each game. Unless the character is getting a lot older, they should stay the same as in the previous game. Game is day one though and will be pre-ordered in August before my GCU expires.

I prefer Shadow face.

aRjscgq.jpg
aDVrIXT.png


It looks more like Legend/Underworld Lara. But they are really not much different.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,135
Austin, TX
I thought the graphics looked pretty good in that jungle demo or whatever. Also, when it comes to popular graphics comparison memes or the like, be very wary taking those at face value. Usually these things are inaccurate and just want to get a rise out of people.
 

AYZON

Member
Oct 29, 2017
905
Germany
I dont mind the graphics but the sneaking walk animation looks weird, I cant exactly tell why but its looking odd to me. Saw it in this video.: https://youtu.be/dIibISZSyuw
Also I dont like the multikill thing, shes taking forever to jump on the first guy and the other one just stands there and does nothing until you chain the attack together and kill him too.
I hope the difficulty settings will prevent that.

Still I hope it turns out to be a good game, I still have get the 2. game of the reboot so I probably wont buy it at launch though.
 

Deleted member 15447

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,728
They used old build to make that trailer showed at MS conference. Actually they used 2 different builds.


This is how the game looks on PC:

shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-nvidia-ansel-e3-2018-pc-screenshot-004.png




So what's the problem exactly? It looks worse than Rise?? No it doesn't.
Also there are still 3 months left before the release.

There's no way that is in game models. The same as the previous game, those faces and textures are for cutscenes and they downgrade when it switches back to gameplay.
 
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MosquitoSmasher
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
Don't expect console version to look as good as PC, Because you will be disappointed.

Oh i know PC will always be the best but Rise on X comes really really close to PC from what I've seen. There will always be differences but nothing like the Rise vs Shadow comparison pic.

Could it be that the one on the left is from a cutscene while the one on the right is from gameplay?

The problem though is that ingame Rise Lara model still looks really really impressive and nothing like that Shadow picture.
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
it honestly looks and animates so much worse than rise. that muddy creep animation is embarrassing (why does it even need to look different to the standard one?). i feel like this is a bioware B-team situation. where the new guys just aren't up to the challenge... but we'll see. the jungle looked so crap in the gameplay footage though. weirdly illuminated foliage in what are supposed to be dark areas.

i'll put it down to lack of polish and it'll be better come release, but it would have probably been better off holding back on the footage until later. because that did nothing to garner any sort of excitement.
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
This has been consistently in my head.
Rise looks way better than anything they have shown so far. Lightning and textures look flat, and I have no idea what is happening.

I'll wait for the final build though.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
The game looks as bare bones as possible. I complained that Rise had barely anything added to the formula, and this game looks like even less. Ropes and rappeling? Not enough. I will play this, but the reboot felt fresh and new. Rise felt stale, I imagine this will too.
 

Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
If I were you, I'd be worried about what they've been trying to pass off as Tomb Raider these past 12 years.

But on a more productive note, the graphics look fine. Yeah, some of the footage looks worse graphically than Rise but even if the final game is gonna end up looking like that (which I don't think is the case), it's still not a big deal in my opinion because it'll still look perfectly fine. The game possibly being another boring, hopelessly generic design-by-committee affair without any kind of unique identity and a terrible story (going by how Rise turned out) really is a bigger worry.

On a sidenote, I've read that they're not using MOVA for their facial motion-capturing anymore (which is what they used on Rise) due to some sort of legal dispute surrounding the tech so the facial animations may indeed end up looking a bit less impressive than they did in Rise.
 
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MosquitoSmasher
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
I prefer Shadow face.

aRjscgq.jpg


It looks more like Legend/Underworld Lara. But they are really not much different.

She looks fantastic here but that's definitely cutscene Lara and not ingame model. Even comparing cutscenes, here's another.

screenshot_20180614-1qjj10.jpg


Doesn't look nearly as good and detailed as your picture. And I believe this is even PC footage too. At the end of the day I just hope you're right man.
 

BoJack

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
3,502
I watched 2 gameplay footage. Animations and camera cuts make me feel that even Tomb Raider 2013 was better than this.

Really liked the first one (8/10), enjoyed the second one (7/10) and almost hate this one. Probably won't buy this.
 
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MosquitoSmasher
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
it honestly looks and animates so much worse than rise. that muddy creep animation is embarrassing (why does it even need to look different to the standard one?). i feel like this is a bioware B-team situation. where the new guys just aren't up to the challenge... but we'll see. the jungle looked so crap in the gameplay footage though. weirdly illuminated foliage in what are supposed to be dark areas.

i'll put it down to lack of polish and it'll be better come release, but it would have probably been better off holding back on the footage until later. because that did nothing to garner any sort of excitement.

That's exactly how I wanted to describe it but I couldn't find the right way to describe it. The forest is very weirdly illuminated indeed which is odd because the gameplay of the tomb is properly dark in places where it should be dark.

At the end of the day it's on Eidos Montreal and SE to bring footage that properly represents your game and not have old and current builds both in that trailer. I really hope Neo is right about that because I want this game to shine in both visuals and gameplay like TR and Rise did in my opinion.

Here's 3 mins of 4k PC gameplay YT compression and all



Looks fine, like the other footage from Gamespot that shows the rest of that level. But this footage doesn't really show her face.
 

Arklite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,640
There's been an odd look to a lot of the still shots and some of the gameplay. I'm not sure if it's the way the lighting interacts with the models or lacking shaders or what. I'm starting to think it might be down to an artistic choice and not for the better. The game isn't finished and it's looking rougher than it should by now but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,940
There's a really conspicuous lack of particle effects in the gameplay they've shown. No splashes in water, no particle effects from gunshots. No smoke, no sparks, no blood.

s7fnjhy.gif


It's pretty disappointing and I can't figure out why it's like this.

I must have missed this. In what footage is this?

I don't know anything about this specific situation - but the lack of blood and the lack of particle effects might be linked. They may have decided to censor all of their blood in the hopes that they would more-likely receive coverage on television stations or kids' outlets. The blood particle system and the gunshot/dust/whatever FX systems might be linked in code and they may have (intentionally due to time constraints, or inadvertently) shut off all the particle FX when stripping out the blood.

It's also possible that the particle FX system may have had some bugs that caused them to look wrong in certain circumstances, so they just shut them all off for the demo/footage due to time constraints.

Or it was something that was just missing from the build that got used to make the demo.

When you're in the final 6 months of developing a game, stuff is constantly in flux, the team is tired, you're often crunching -- and then these people have the additional pressure of making a demo/trailer/E3 show on top of finishing a game - and everything is on fire.

I'm not going to tell you to not have opinions on the graphical quality of the game. But I will say that it would be EXTREMELY unlikely that it ships without any sort of particle FX.
 
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MosquitoSmasher
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
I'm just hoping that the really bad shot (I took it myself directly from the trailer) is just due to some strange lighting error or something because this is the bad Shadow pic:

screenshot_20180614-1l4zhp.jpg


And this is ingame Rise Lara model, just took it.

img_20180614_170842i9sdy.jpg


I think we need some real good quality footage of the jungle part.
 

Sir Guts

Use of alt account
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,480
I don't need if the game is rushed or they cut some of the budget. Animations needs work
 

Zoid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,335
I'm hoping it's an early build thing. The game looked pretty much as good as Rise, I was expecting a big improvement. But it could be too early to tell.

What really bothers me if they haven't cleaned up the janky animations they've been using since TR2013, especially that overacted jump Lara does in these games. Why does she continue to flail her arms and legs around when hopping a foot?
 

Mezoly

Jimbo Replacement
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,401
I'll keep an open mind but Rise was bland to a painful degree. The gameplay demos of Shadow looked even worse than Rise or what I expect from modern games.
 

Deleted member 35631

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 8, 2017
1,139
Marvel doesnt choose the studio , they just chose square and square assigned them avengers. Same with sony, who hired insomniac for it(its not a 1st party studio)

According to what Marvel said about Spiderman, they wanted to take control 100% of their gaming franchises. However, it could be true that Marvel went with Square Enix and they assigned Crystal Dynamics, but the point still stands: Crystal Dynamics had to pass on the Tomb Raider franchise in order to work on the Avengers Project.
 

VivekTO

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
433
The one thing I didn't like about the first two game are the Camera cuts to Takedowns!! and its seems they didn't improve on that or made it more seemless.

Look at this, the model is even not in the same position, when cuts to second takedown.

This is jarring and really looks bad in comparison to other games, I think even farcry series does better in terms of multiple takedowns animation.
Hopefully this is an older build and they might improve on this!!
 
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Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
I think this is the worst looking AAA game shown at the show. I was surprised (or maybe impressed?) they were showing so much actual gameplay. The reboot continues to seem like the biggest missed opportunity of the gen for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,153
I'm sure this has been covered ad naseum (I haven't really been keeping up on the discussion regarding this game/series), but my primary concern is that the game looks more like a serial killer simulator than anything remotely approaching a tomb raiding adventure. In the past this never really bothered me, but the demo looked ridiculous. I like violence as much as the next person, but it doesn't really seem to suit the spirit of this series.
 

Lampa

Member
Feb 13, 2018
3,588
3 moths before the release...

You're very optimistic. I seriously doubt it will get much better in 3 months. There are game releasing in 3 months that look better than this.

I think this is the worst looking AAA game shown at the show. I was surprised (or maybe impressed?) they were showing so much actual gameplay. The reboot continues to seem like the biggest missed opportunity of the gen for me.

That kind of the case with all rebooted series. If it works, keep on making it. It's a shame indeed, first one was really good but then it kind of lost it's charm.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Let's wait for the final product before speculating about downgrades or inconsistent graphics, shall we? Some parts looked indeed weird but the game is not finished yet. At least they're not using CGI disguised as gameplay like many.
 

GroovySnake

Member
Jun 10, 2018
622
USA
One artistic decision I disagree with, and I want to tread lightly here, is the change of Lara's look from the 2013 game to this one. She's less curvy, her physique being more lean with a bit less curves than before. I would never bring this up in the majority of games, but since it's Lara Croft, having some of that look is an aspect to some degree. And that you can still take the character seriously and empathize even if they do have glamorous looks and dimensions etc, that's positive, since you don't judge a book by it's cover. Everything should be represented, and Lara could be a positive representation of a pretty and curvy woman. But I get that the current devs want to avoid all that.

I think the 2013 game's model was a good compromise, but in this one they just kind of went a little further and I wonder if they are just worried of being linked to the old series. That they want to downplay her curves and avoid the whole topic. Even though that is a natural thing that shouldn't be controversial. Hopefully this isn't too much for me to mention my take on that.

Another thing is the game having a special edition that's 10 dollars more with an extra outfit, and a really expensive Croft edition with four extra outfits. The fighting games have been doing this for a while, costume DLC like this just feels like such a bad deal. If the player is interested in the game for 60 dollars and wants a few outfits, including them in the game may boost sales to that portion of the audience. Most aren't going to pay 90 dollars. In general I like games that feel like a good deal, with options to please varying fans.

And I read the rules again to see if this is okay, my bad if this is not a subject we want to discuss.

So, that was a long post about aesthetic details in this Tomb Raider game. Also, hopefully the game is good and fun.
 

Zojirushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,298
I have high hopes for the PC version to look good and play well. Reboot and Rise both were just really fun to move around in and do stuff, which isn't something I can personally say about TLOU so they're kinda going for very different things just in terms of videogamey-ness. One game doesn't render the other obsolete or something, that's a very stupid way to look at things.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,120
Yeah I was catching up with E3 yesterday and saw those two videos and thought the same. The one showcasing the combat looked quite bad, weird colours (but that might be the capture, most likely is) wonky animations and all. The other 9 mins video showing platforming and puzzles looked good though.
Not sure what is going on, they look very different
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
New setting.
New weapons.
New gameplay/combat mechanics.
Real swimming.
Hub 3 times bigger than anything in Rise...

"No new features."

Lol, you know how these threads go

'No new features, it's going to bomb, not like the old games, worse looking game ever, murder machine, torture porn, old character was better'
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
idc if there's a graphics downgrade or there's a complete lack of gore

just give this game some personality and heart. the only time lara has ever smiled in the rebooted series is out of relief that her friends aren't dead or if she does it morosely. she doesn't need to be wise crackin' like nathan drake, but let her be more than just an emotional punching bag
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
Let's wait for the final product before speculating about downgrades or inconsistent graphics, shall we? Some parts looked indeed weird but the game is not finished yet. At least they're not using CGI disguised as gameplay like many.
This. And the builds shown on E3 was probably done in april/may. So the footage might be from a 2-3 month old build.
 

Roldan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
759
The one thing I didn't like about the first two game are the Camera cuts to Takedowns!! and its seems they didn't improve on that or made it more seemless.

Look at this, the model is even not in the same position, when cuts to second takedown.

This is jarring and really looks bad in comparison to other games, I think even farcry series does better in terms of multiple takedowns animation.
Hopefully this is an older build and they might improve on this!!

I don't even think the camera cut is an issue here, it's a good trick move the models to make the animation work properly, but the way she (doesn't) turn around to the second target suddenly is a bit jarring.

EDIT: ALSO, when it cuts the camera, the first guy is still on his death animation and very far from Lara. That contributes a lot to make the scene feel a little wonky, because it makes clear Lara was teleported.

Like, in MGSV, when you chain CQC moves, there is a camera cut - probably because the game does a minor teleporting to align the models -, but you still see Snake turning around to the next enemy:

 
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MosquitoSmasher
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
Really? Gore is realistic. Blood is realistic. It's not unnecessary. It's needed to convey realism in the violence.

This exactly. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. They say it's way darker than before, Lara is brutal etc. If it's so brutal show us at least some blood. Now I'm not talking about the extreme violence in that TLOU2 footage, although I would like that a lot in here, but Jesus, at least some blood effects or on the ground. I don't remember how Rise did this though. Or have a option that you can toggle on or off, simple! Like others here said, maybe all that was disabled on purpose.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
Thicker Lara looks so much better tho

And im not saying 'damn she's thicc' but it's a bit more believable now that she can take tens of soldiers.