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I'm kinda surprised that nerdy communities - even liberal ones - are so judgmental towards others
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Nerd communities have always have "in group" vs "out group" mentalities. We quantify how much of a "nerd" someone is all the time before we left the into out groups and we push back against them if they don't meet the quota. Why do you think people keep saying "hardcore" and "casual" gamer? They want to be in the in group (hardcore) and not the out group (casual) it's really fucked up and need culture needs to learn to change imo.
OP, are you talking about users getting pushback when they spout pro-Trump garbage, or something benign like pineapple on pizza or microwaving hotdogs?
Because if it's the former, they deserve all the scorn in the world, even in a nerdy community like this.
Because if it's the former, they deserve all the scorn in the world, even in a nerdy community like this.
Interesting, all this talk of nerd communities, as I identify more as a geek, whereas outsiders might define us all as dweebs...
In the end, its all terminology and a great deal of inside/outside othering and self affirmation, which occurs in a lot of communities.
Some interesting observations above, though.
In the end, its all terminology and a great deal of inside/outside othering and self affirmation, which occurs in a lot of communities.
Some interesting observations above, though.
Sometimes they leave the comforting glow of their computer monitor and step foot outside. Thus, they become a "Daywalker."
Nerds are not a uniform group. Some are very friendly. Some are shy. Some are awkward. Some are withdrawn. And some are toxic.
Most have endured constant ridicule from childhood into adulthood for not being "normal". They are too smart. They are introverted.They look/sound stupid. They like X, Y, or Z that are childish. They are weak. They are easy to take advantage of.
Few choose to be social out casts, but the majority were forced into being outcast by society. You wonder why "nerds" are not more accepting? It because they have been conditioned by the rest of society to be/act tough in order to survive.
So instead of asking why are nerds alone not more accepting, the question should be asked why does society form clicks that ostracize others?
Most have endured constant ridicule from childhood into adulthood for not being "normal". They are too smart. They are introverted.They look/sound stupid. They like X, Y, or Z that are childish. They are weak. They are easy to take advantage of.
Few choose to be social out casts, but the majority were forced into being outcast by society. You wonder why "nerds" are not more accepting? It because they have been conditioned by the rest of society to be/act tough in order to survive.
So instead of asking why are nerds alone not more accepting, the question should be asked why does society form clicks that ostracize others?
OP
OP
A couple things I'm noticing that keep cropping up in this thread, so let me clarify...again.
The existence of this thread does not suggest that this problem is exclusive to nerds, nor does it suggest that nerds are special snowflakes that require unique solutions to their problems. However, whataboutism is kinda missing the point here. This is a video game forum. It should be ok to talk about our specific community even if our problems are not unique.
I simply wanted to talk about the hypocrisy of our actions, get to the root causes of our behavior, and develop a consensus for specific solutions that ultimately will promote healthier nerd communities.
It makes sense to point out the broader elements of the human condition that obviously affects nerds as well. However, it also makes sense to discuss specific behavioral patterns within nerd communities that -- while not unique to nerds -- make socialization within said communities more toxic and unhealthy.
It's amazing to me that even the slightest criticism towards this community is met with condescension and defensiveness, where people feel the need to point out that they're not the only ones with issues. Please save the strawmen. I'm not attacking you. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I just want us to improve.
Gamergate culture and the more toxic elements of nerd communities (like the pro-Trump garbage you're referring to) are rightfully criticized. But I'm talking about innocuous stuff, like the food related topics that you mentioned.
The existence of this thread does not suggest that this problem is exclusive to nerds, nor does it suggest that nerds are special snowflakes that require unique solutions to their problems. However, whataboutism is kinda missing the point here. This is a video game forum. It should be ok to talk about our specific community even if our problems are not unique.
I simply wanted to talk about the hypocrisy of our actions, get to the root causes of our behavior, and develop a consensus for specific solutions that ultimately will promote healthier nerd communities.
It makes sense to point out the broader elements of the human condition that obviously affects nerds as well. However, it also makes sense to discuss specific behavioral patterns within nerd communities that -- while not unique to nerds -- make socialization within said communities more toxic and unhealthy.
It's amazing to me that even the slightest criticism towards this community is met with condescension and defensiveness, where people feel the need to point out that they're not the only ones with issues. Please save the strawmen. I'm not attacking you. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I just want us to improve.
Gamergate culture and the more toxic elements of nerd communities (like the pro-Trump garbage you're referring to) are rightfully criticized. But I'm talking about innocuous stuff, like the food related topics that you mentioned.
OP
OP
It's not universally true, but there are enough of us who have experienced it to be able to relate to it, that's all.
I think in a general sense gamers like to "win" arguments so you see lots of posts where people are trying to get in the last word, the crushing be-all-end-all post if you will. So yes, there is a sense of snarky antagonism in "nerd" groups. It gets a bit tiring but sometimes it can be entertaining.
I'm not. A bunch of predominantly white predominantly male people who think nobody likes or understands them is nearly guaranteed to consider themselves a persecuted class and exclude others
Bingo, I'm more surprised that people are so surprised about it.
If you think being your average garden variety nerd is bad, try being a black nerd. Good luck!
i dont know if anyone responded you yet, but go to the thread about the parents getting a coach for fortnite for their son, that thread have plenty of examples of this shitty attitude
I mean it just makes linear sense. I was ridiculed, bullied and all the good stuff for being a nerd. What do you think that leads to, kindness and empathy towards "non-nerds"? lol. It leads to resentment and toxicity and it's a conscious effort to claw one's way out of it. This is just how humans work, not how nerds work, just humans in general. Yes it's not right, yes it's self destructive, but it makes sense why things are like they are. No I don't judge people for not being nerds, I just judge all people in general, like all people do.
OP
OP
You speak as if all nerds are the same. Sure, we're all human, but that doesn't mean we'll all behave in the same way, under the same circumstances. People have different ways of coping with trauma. Some bullies end up bullying other people. Does that mean that everyone who is bullied will do the same? Of course not! Some people who are bullied will end up standing up for others. Some will become recluse. There's no singular corrolary effect here.
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every nerd in the world needs something to look down on, to point out and say "im better than that", it's not really surprising honestly, immature people (which a majority of nerds still largely are) would rather look for validation that they made the "right choice" than doing some self inspection to ponder if they might in fact be wrong, so it's easier to hate something because "it's beneath me" rather than strive to better oneself.
Yes, ideally, that should lead to you being extra empathetic toward everyone.
OP
OP
I'm sorry, what is it exactly that you find 'bullshit' about that particular phrase?
He starts off the thread talking about video games, tech, and even the thread title is referring to nerd communities so where are you coming from with this angle lol
OP
OP
Well that is a non-sequitur if I ever saw one. I don't even know how you were able to come to that conclusion. Please elucidate!
9 times out of 10 when people say we should put up with someone with different opinion it usually means "tolerate the bigot." Not helping is that specifically point out the "liberal ones"
Even in nerd communities, no one is gonna be run of town for thinking the Xbox One X is greatest of all time.
OP
OP
I think there's a fundamental disconnect here.
Generally speaking, minorites are just fine with people who attempt to take action in ways that promote equality and make their minority groups less of a minority. This is not the case with nerds. I'm generalizing here, but it would appear that nerds don't want to seen as mainstream. They criticize people who try to normalize healthy geek/nerd culture. If someone wants to make money streaming video games, they are lambasted...by their own video gaming peers.
The above examples are not at all the same as minorities being racist towards other minorites. Yes, that's also hypocritical, but at least these minority groups generally want social acceptance. Nerds don't seem to want that.
I've always wondered if the reason we see a lot of toxic people in such communities is due to video games and other types of activities becoming mainstream over the years, leading to people that were once bullied and ostracized to feel like they're being invaded. When I was a kid liking video games in the US South was seen as nerdy or uncool, usually being made fun of cause you didn't like football or cars, or whatever. Nowadays we see many people playing video games that would once before criticize and bully those that enjoyed them. Maybe some feel like their small community and hobbie is being taken from them and thus lash out in the same way they were treated once before.
Not saying this is true, but a possible reason to why there is some toxic parts in gaming.
I was thinking about nerd cultures hating on other nerd cultures like their nerdiness is somehow more acceptable.
OP
OP
Well that's why you need to apply context, regardless of the statistics that you just pulled out of thin air. I'M A LIBERAL. I do not tolerate bigots of any kind. That has nothing to do with what I said, which was such a broad statement that you couldn't have possibly come to that conclusion without making a host of baseless assumptions.
I could do without the bad faith argumentation. Thank you.
That is is true, no doubt. Some people do defend their once scorned hobby. They feel their safe space is being invaded.
Some of them are not wrong. Some of the new people coming into the hobbies keep themselves distant from the fans of the hobby. They indulge in "nerd" culture but still hold themselves to a higher social standard. "I do 80 hours of X a week, but I'm not nerd!" It is no wonder even the friendliest nerds are guarded and defensive. The label nerd is still used a a derogatory term. Again, you have people here who frequent a video game forum that refuse to acknowledge they are nerds- "games are popular now- I'm not one of THEM!" It is infuriating.
I think for discussion purpose, the term "nerd" is too broad. I've been running in nerd circles for nearly 40 years. Nerds I associate with at home, and at conventions on east and west coast of America are friendly people. While some have encyclopedic like knowledge, they are not gate keepers. We try to bring more people into fandom, because having more people to share experiences with is awesome. Are there asshole nerds? Yes. They are not assholes because they are nerds, they are asshole who happen to be nerds.
Also, where is the rule that because one is a nerd, they have to be open and friendly to everyone? No matter how friendly one is in any fandom, the great part of society still shits on nerds.
Nerd communities are like a gym locker room.
Everyone there likely has common cause or interest, in that they've got some level of commitment to, or are exploring, getting in shape. And then the stankest B.O. ever gets inhaled, or someone just plain farts. And then, the gym locker room is associated with B.O.
Everyone there likely has common cause or interest, in that they've got some level of commitment to, or are exploring, getting in shape. And then the stankest B.O. ever gets inhaled, or someone just plain farts. And then, the gym locker room is associated with B.O.
This is one of the main reasons I stopped attending PAX.
Also at the last game studio I worked for it got pretty obnoxious as well.
Judgmental and elitist nerds are the worst.
Also at the last game studio I worked for it got pretty obnoxious as well.
Judgmental and elitist nerds are the worst.
OP
OP
The B.O. problem is definitely real and something that we need to continue to address. I'm assuming it has to do with being in an insular culture that doesn't have to deal with the negative reinforcement that comes with socializing in traditional circles, so people don't feel the need to take personal hygiene seriously, but that has gotta stop. Nobody wants to smell that funk at a community gathering. It's vile.
Based on Penny Arcade's awful behavior in the past, no one should have been attending PAX in the first place.
Is this the kind of judgmental behavior you're talking about, OP?
I pretty much ignore nerds in real life or when they talk to non nerd shit, it takes a special kind of stupid to ignore the themes of acceptance and community that many scifi shows have, only to complain about "PC choices" in a cast.
In reality, jocks are out there talking about police violence while nerds are praising the importance of listening both sides.
In reality, jocks are out there talking about police violence while nerds are praising the importance of listening both sides.
OP
OP
If people are doing genuinely awful shit, they should be called out on it.
I'm talking about shit like that thread discussing a parent paying for a tutor to help their child get better at Fortnite, and everyone in the thread losing their minds about it. It reeks of "filthy casuals" mentality and is a bit disconcerting when you think about it.
It was a simile.
The B.O. are the assholes of the community. Like when "gamer" became "gamergate" in the minds of people because of the stank, terrible, sticky cloud that it put over the community. The stink is going to be there in any community. Always will. It's just that we, as a community of nerds, gamers, whatever, need to do a better job of washing up, so to speak.
A different metaphor...we're a neighborhood of people that all get along, have neighborhood bbq's and such, but there's always going to be that neighbor that lets their dog shit on the sidewalk and doesn't pick it up, or worse, they purposefully have their dog shit on your lawn because they can get away with it. Then someone steps in it. You bring it up in the HOA meeting, but no one fesses up. Then every goddamn HOA meeting turns into a discussion about dog shit. Then you get flyers in your mailbox about those issues. Then someone that's interested in buying learns about it, and posts something online about "great neighborhood, but there's a dog poop problem". They're not wrong, and it ends up fucking with the property value.
Bit of a snowball rolling down a hill, but hopefully it makes sense.
OP
OP
Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you (quite the opposite, actually), but when you brought up B.O. it just reminded that that is really a problem with nerdy communities. So I guess you could say that I went on a little tangent.
When I was younger, I believed that viewing everyone through a critical lens was the correct way to ensure productive/healthy social interaction. It isn't. All it amounts to is assuming the worst of absolutely everyone and it's a miserable, alienating existence.
I get it, though. The current political climate in the US has... changed things. More people are willingly outing themselves as dirtbags than ever before and it's tough not to be soured on humanity. Still, it's not like it's difficult to out these people as they feel comfortable in doing it themselves. You don't need to be particularly discerning of subtleties in dialect employed or cling to hilarious "gotcha" generalizations/statistics.
My job has me working with the public within their own homes. I assume the best of anyone and treat everyone as though they're saints. If they're not, they'll gleefully tell you how bigoted they are at the soonest opportunity. If there's one thing everyone loves it's talking about themselves. I've also learned from these interactions that shunning is more effective than confrontation most of the time. The latter breeds resistance while the former has garnered me a ton of apologies. Telling people they're wrong vs making them feel as though they've done wrong are most definitely two different things and I think the only way to truly learn the subtleties is life experience. Interacting with a variety of social groups in their homes on a regular basis also grants you real-world examples to share with others that prove they're wrong about a certain group. I can casually drop a story without dropping the hammer (ie. without a confrontational "you're wrong and here's why) and.... it resonates. You know when people are listening (more often) and when they're hand waiving (less often and mostly done overtly)
But I digress. Good topic, OP. You're a good dood.
In a kinda similar tone, to this day i can't still fully comprehend the rampant biphobia and sometimes transphobia within queer communities.
The reason why is because people are tribal. So "nerds" or whatever we call them view people with different interests basically as being part of another tribe. That's also how fanboys develop.
OP
OP
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
I try to make it a point to give people the benefit of the doubt until they give me a reason not to, but I do understand why people are skeptical of the intentions of others, especially in our current political climate. But as you said, people will eventually tell on themselves, so I try not to make too many assumptions.
This is also frustrating to see and experience.