This isn't an example of an echo chamber. That black person you immediately connect with at the lame office party isn't garaunteed to agree with you on all aspects.
I'm starting to feel like echo chambers aren't so bad.
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I think it's about how we define it. The opposite of echo chamber should not a competitive debate/shouting match.
It's unfortunate that the internet has turned many things into a polarized, maximum type of fight. For some topics - I get it, lives are at stake, and certainly there are people who argue in bad faith - but we really need to think about the grounds in which we meet.
But if you don't feel like arguing, I really think crafting your own little haven or cultural enclave, is a completely fine thing to do. I quit my main Twitter account and created another one that's 90% video games for that purpose.
It's unfortunate that the internet has turned many things into a polarized, maximum type of fight. For some topics - I get it, lives are at stake, and certainly there are people who argue in bad faith - but we really need to think about the grounds in which we meet.
But if you don't feel like arguing, I really think crafting your own little haven or cultural enclave, is a completely fine thing to do. I quit my main Twitter account and created another one that's 90% video games for that purpose.
The whole concept of an "echo chamber" is fucking idiotic. If I've joined a place to discuss specific things then I want to discuss those things, not get every single topic derailed by a bunch of idiot trolls. The people crying about echo chambers are literally only there to gaslight others into believing their concerns are unreasonable and fringe. More often than not; people benefitting from or brainwashed by the status quo telling marginalized people that their demands for being treated like fucking humans is somehow absurd. Fuck outta here with that shit if you've ever done that in any way, shape or form. You were brought up wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Newsflash: I consider liberals to be extreme right wing and barely identify with ANY of their opinions. I'm just also not a fucking nazi because those aren't the only two options or opinions to express in a discussion. If you complain about a forum being an "echo chamber" because people actively perpetuation oppression of minorities aren't welcome, you have an insanely narrow view of what diversity of opinion means. The current wave of US Conservatives are a complete joke and would have been treated as such (and arguably are) globally if it weren't for the US voting system being a steaming pile of trash.
So no, there's not a single dominant viewpoint being expressed. There's just a completely useless branch of idiocy that has no place in society being treated the way it should be. If you have economically conservative ideas – no one is going to silence you on this forum. If you extend that concept to human rights? You and me are gonna have a problem every single day of every single week, no matter what you call yourself. Liberal, conservative, class reductionist commie – I don't care.
Meanwhile every single nazi forum instantly bans any expression of dissent. None of the people using that phrase care the slightest about free speech, having opinions challenged or frankly anything of value. They are nihilists and should be treated as such (and that's coming from someone who doesn't even have a problem with nihilism, just don't expect to be taken seriously in debates.)
To me, this comes across like a crock of shit to be honest. Rarely do I get more than two or three people agreeing with anything I say in an opinion-based discussion thread. I am challenged constantly and sometimes there's even a level of verbal hostility involved. So please, tell me how that makes any sense with your claim of there being a "single dominant viewpoint expressed"? The only way you can rationalize that is if you equate everyone who is not a racist piece of shit with being a "liberal" or whatever.
Newsflash: I consider liberals to be extreme right wing and barely identify with ANY of their opinions. I'm just also not a fucking nazi because those aren't the only two options or opinions to express in a discussion. If you complain about a forum being an "echo chamber" because people actively perpetuation oppression of minorities aren't welcome, you have an insanely narrow view of what diversity of opinion means. The current wave of US Conservatives are a complete joke and would have been treated as such (and arguably are) globally if it weren't for the US voting system being a steaming pile of trash.
So no, there's not a single dominant viewpoint being expressed. There's just a completely useless branch of idiocy that has no place in society being treated the way it should be. If you have economically conservative ideas – no one is going to silence you on this forum. If you extend that concept to human rights? You and me are gonna have a problem every single day of every single week, no matter what you call yourself. Liberal, conservative, class reductionist commie – I don't care.
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It's a loaded phrase. It has an intended meaning, to guilt people into the free speech trap. It's used by the alt-right, and while the understanding of it might be up for debate, I ignore people that use the term. As if acknowledging that a forum doesn't tolerate intolerance is somehow bad because of "echo chamber".
No it's not. Please stop acting like echo chamber is inherently an insult the right throw at the left, when some of the most prominent echo chambers are places like r/the_donald
Not exactly a challenge unless one were to literally visit just one website and nowhere else, though.
The issue is that fiscal conservatism doesn't really seem to exist on its lonesome in any kind of verbal or obvious capacity. There are groups that have fought staunchly to insist that bigotry is at the core of conservatism and it's just an aspect of their ideology. And the more visible forms of social conservatism definitely aren't shy about it. Those groups dominate the mindspace, even if people claim to be Christian, or small-government Republicans, or so on, there are enough people that have polluted the identities with something else at its core, even if it runs counter to what they claim their ideologies stand for. Not to mention the apathy of so-called centrists allowing those people to take the spotlight.
To be fair, r/the_donald actually admits it lol. They ban those that don't support Trump and it's part of their moderation policy.
Admitting it doesn't make it any less true though.
Era is not an echo chamber. It has a definitive and clear political leaning, that's not the same thing though
So do you think the "conservative voices left" because they couldn't express their views about "Small government, freer markets, low regulations and so on?" Or was it about not being able to freely express their bigotry?
Agreed, the binary of left/right being a deciding factor into what makes this site an 'echo chamber' or not is woefully abandoning the important distinction of the level of difference in ideals of those that'd banner under 'the left' without even including moderates. And yeah, conservatism is so rapidly shedding it's former image to empower blatant fascist rhetoric that dismissing such opinions is the very least we should be doing.
Eh, while they’re not as bad as GOP brand conservatism, and I do tend to associate conservatism with GOP brand due to its relevance to current events in my life, I don’t think that conservatism is inherently harmless.
Small government and freer markets with low regulations will *always* perpetuate systemic privilege and the maintenance of power in the hands of those who already possess it.
^ This right here. The kind of people who use the phrase "echo chamber" should tell you all you need to know.
I mean, shit, you have LGBT people disagreeing with each other about different things all the time (especially when it comes to, for example, the intersection between race, gender, and sexual orientation and how important that is). There is no space that is 100% an "echo chamber". People are too different to allow that to happen. At most we just find a common ground, a common understanding, that allows us to coexist without shouting down one another. That's a far healthier place to be than to give a voice to people who only know how to spout blind hatred and epithets at people they don't understand.
No idea. I don't think they all left. They just stopped expressing their views.
A good example is taxation. Topics on taxation here are universally liberal in their acceptance here. That's a good example, especially when Trump tax cuts were passed. That was mostly seen as a negative. Many conservatives were happy at their passing based on the Twitter chat I saw.
That's a fair critique on those ideas. But you're attacking the ideas themselves, not saying that expressing support for those ideas is hate speech, which was your original argument.
Yes it is. Please stop telling me, and others how to act. You aren't any authority.
If anything the lack of a desire to make this an officially progressive space creates a sort of echoing of its own, wherein nothing but the bare 101 level discourses (and sometimes really it's more like high school level discourse), the minuscule mircoest examinations of the status quo ever get performed. and to boot the end result is often frequently that the status quo gets aggressively defended and it's foundation remains uncracked... which is insufferably boring.
What example did I give?
I had to find a new barber after mine moved. There was a month of mourning, another month of developing the will to trust again, and then seeking recommendations.
Echo chambers feel good, because everyone likes to hear that they were right and confirmation bias is one hell of a drug. But real life requires us to step out of our comfort zone in order to grow and learn important truths
And yet you're not even attempting to educate me on the matter, so excuse me if I completely disregard your opinion on this and other matters.
I don't even agree with this. There's and incredible diversity of political leanings discussed on here. Unless the only political question you care about is being against human rights I guess? Then yeah, this forum leans toward not being utter shit. Cool.
A-fucking-men.
Living in an echo chamber is bad, having a high amount of confidence in people with particular worldviews isn't necessarily bad and can be good.
Echo chambers aren't a good thing. They're a place that reinforces your existing views. It's a bubble that leads to lack of growth and development.
To all of you saying echo chambers are bad: can we get some examples of what you're talking about? I've never been in one so I honestly can't relate.
I don’t think I said anything about hate speech being the qualifier. It’d be perfectly fine to exclude people who have those viewpoints from discussion about politics.
I said Era isn't an echo chamber. I think we agree.
Oh you meant on political leaning. Era is definitely left leaning. But left leaning is still composed of a diverse range of ideas
People make the mistake that echo chambers means that only one side is ever considered. Actually, echo chambers result when like minded people talk together. These people may have reached the same conclusions after critical thinking. I have considered the other side and I want no part of it. That doesn't mean I only know my own side. I'm actually pretty informed about the other side, I just vehemently disagree. Entertaining both sides just for the sake of it is not some kind of enlightenment, I'd argue, it's the opposite. It's conversation stalemate that goes no where.
Example. There are no two sides when it comes to nazis, white supremacy, racism, and even the Trump presidency at this point. Hence, an echo chamber will form as long as the people participating are decent.
Example. There are no two sides when it comes to nazis, white supremacy, racism, and even the Trump presidency at this point. Hence, an echo chamber will form as long as the people participating are decent.
Yes, I was just saying I even think the claim that there is a specific political leaning here is kind of absurd.
https://forum.officer.com/
It's a forum cops post on. Go ahead and take a look at some of the topics. A lot of their view points are extremely closed minded and toxic.
Let’s be honest here, pushback on them expressing their views on taxation isn’t what made them stop expressing “conservative views.”
The donald is a bad "echo chamber". You don't have to be in one to know that alt-right ones are bad.
And even then, that's assuming those who participate in an echo chamber know and have experienced the same thing. To reach a specific conclusion about an ideal (political leanings since that is where this phrase gets the most use) can be done through many different walks of life. I'm straight, male and white; therefore I will never know the same level of prejudice as those who cannot say the same. Any and all conclusions I've drawn to the state of the political and cultural landscape have been through my perception of certain safe spaces and the rhetoric and values they perpetuate, not through personal experiences of oppression of prejudice. If anything, echo chambers can, and should, make one re-evaluate what they value, not simply reaffirm it.
nothing wrong with a community of people with similar views. having different experiences is more important than different views. and there is never a situation where everyone agrees. no matter how close your opinion is with other people there will be things you disagree on and things to improve on. its best to just remove bigoted and bad faith voices "echo chamber" be damned
I feel like most people use the word "echo chamber" in a really weird way. The first time I heard the word was in the context of recommendation algorithms for social media (and how Google filters search results), where it literally uses your previous activity to show you things that are likely things you already agree with. It's a closed off bubble, essentially.
But describing a community with that word somehow implies that we all agree on all things (everyone echoes what somebody is saying). Which is comically inaccurate for almost any community of any size.
What people might mean is that it's not perfectly diverse on all issues, and sure that's true, but that is the case for almost all human communities. Some ideas will find more agreement than others, and this can shift over time. So to complain about "echo chambers" in this context, really just seems like someone is mad that a majority disagrees with their opinion. To then imply that this is on the community, instead of their ability to debate their point, is pretty arrogant.
But describing a community with that word somehow implies that we all agree on all things (everyone echoes what somebody is saying). Which is comically inaccurate for almost any community of any size.
What people might mean is that it's not perfectly diverse on all issues, and sure that's true, but that is the case for almost all human communities. Some ideas will find more agreement than others, and this can shift over time. So to complain about "echo chambers" in this context, really just seems like someone is mad that a majority disagrees with their opinion. To then imply that this is on the community, instead of their ability to debate their point, is pretty arrogant.
Disagree, they just lead to extremism. When you only allow one side, one opinion to be the right one, the one talked about you slowly but surely move further in one direction. In these echo chambers purity tests are common, anyone having a slightly different view maybe on just one or two point gets shouted down, they aren't a REAL whatever. You start to identify with a group, well X's think this and I'm an X so I must think it to.
Here's a secret for you: before the internet, the bubbles were much smaller. Unless you lived in a huge urban area, everyone read the same paper, watched the same news at night, and mostly had the same general opinions about things. The range of acceptable opinion was much smaller. The idea that we're hearing less diverse opinions now than then is ridiculous.
Though, if anyone ever mentions they've never actually looked at places like The Donald, I always feel inclined to recommend it to them - look at it for themselves to get a good idea of what kind of ideals are being tossed around in there.
I find echo chambers to be boring. I enjoy reading and discussing well thought out opinions and arguments that are opposite of my own because it challenges me. Also, it's never healthy to sit around in your own echo chamber, you need to venture out and see what other people are thinking about things and also respect that others have opinions that differ from your own. Echo chambers are what create militant extremists.
Due to the options available and the ease of creating them (blogs, forums, Facebook pages etc) it is far easier these days for people to only read and/or listen to opinions that they already agree with.
I personally think that online echo chambers sucks and have been problematic in this decade and not only on the large political and societal scale but also on the smaller personal one.
My post was a reaction to the other poster's incredulity asking for examples for bad "echo chambers". There's a difference between someone saying "echo chambers" are bad as a concept, and not being able of conceiving even a single bad one.
It's really not. Most people are on one or more social media sites, and virtually everyone's got those cousins that believe crazy shit, or those friends that do. You'll see more diverse opinions in a day on twitter than you used to see for months pre-internet. Frankly, people who weren't grown before the internet have very little understanding of how limited the ideas in your local area could be. Now, if you work hard and curate the shit out of your feeds, you can just about get back to the limited idea space of the pre-internet.
In echo chambers you won't learn anything new. They are never good. Always dangerous. Broaden your mind through free discussion.
I'm 44. I very much remember the pre-internet days. I also think that you over-estimate how many use multiple platforms. But even then, it is perfectly possible to live in a bubble on Twitter and Facebook, well Facebook is designed to work that way.
resetera is a "free" discussion and yet arguably still an echo chamber because people simply agree about a lot of things. Who are you to say the consensus is wrong simply because most everybody agrees?
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