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Impeachment Hearings Day 5, Dr. Fiona Hill and David Holmes testify (live now). This is the last one!

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,418

US Constitution - Article II, Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Convinction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors
Intel Committee website (all hearings, live or otherwise): https://intelligence.house.gov/

PBS Livestream



This Week’s Witnesses:

— Wednesday, Nov. 20, morning: Ambassador Gordon Sondland, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union.

— Wednesday, Nov. 20, afternoon: Laura Cooper, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russian, Ukrainian, and Eurasian Affairs; David Hale, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs.

— Thursday, Nov. 21, morning: Fiona Hill, former National Security Council senior director for Europe and Russia.



 
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WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,875
I wish Republicans understood that in 50 years, their great-grandchildren will see these videos and be ashamed of them and how they defended such a corrupt President.
 

etrain911

Member
Oct 27, 2017
872
I wish Republicans understood that in 50 years, their great-grandchildren will see these videos and be ashamed of them and how they defended such a corrupt President.
It's not that they don't understand. It's that they don't care. Reputation, legacy, all of that means nothing. They (most likely given age) won't be alive in 50 years. They're a pack of greedy corrupt nihilists who only care about scoring wins and amassing more and more.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,571
I might be the minority on this, but i think this is completely useless and just a distraction considering we will dump the orange clown next year.
So crime should be legal for US presidents. I hope you are in the minority.

The idea that running for re-election can reasonably be about committing as many crimes as possible to help you win is an especially problematic view. You can't have fair elections in that scenario, and without fair elections this constitutional republic is meaningless. It's bad enough that we have PACs and dark money, and yes, we need to do something about that as well.
 

BLEEN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,276
I might be the minority on this, but i think this is completely useless and just a distraction considering we will dump the orange clown next year.
Brehhh. People been askin' for accountability for three years. We're finally getting it and this is what you think? C'mon now.

LET'S GEYYYT 'EM!
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
3,587
I might be the minority on this, but i think this is completely useless and just a distraction considering we will dump the orange clown next year.
Imagine Trump gets through his whole term unscathed.

Imagine a guy deconstructs the very fabric of accountability and integrity that upholds a huge institution such as the White House, and gets through his term unscathed.

Imagine the Democrats fail to dethrone him while he is actively causing massive cultural, economic and social damage.

It won't just look bad for the future - it will set a precedent whereby ANYONE in office can get away with ANYTHING and there are no consequences. It'll be easy for Republicans to do even worse and triple down on their base. Their base will be ratified by Trump getting through his whole term.

Dumping him next year in the elections will be a terrible outcome. The institution needs to show that Trumpian politics WILL NOT STAND.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,934
WILLIAM TAYLOR
Taylor described learning that Trump’s officials or agents conditioned nearly $400 million in U.S. aid to Ukraine and a White House meeting on Ukraine conducting political investigations.
“By mid-July it was becoming clear to me that the meeting (Ukraine) President (Volodymyr) Zelenskiy wanted was conditioned on the investigations of Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. elections,” Taylor testified on Oct. 22.
Burisma is a Ukrainian company where Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s son Hunter served on the board. Trump sought to pursue the debunked conspiracy theory that Ukraine, not Russia, meddled in the 2016 U.S. elections.
“I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Taylor recalled telling U.S. officials.
Taylor stopped short of directly implicating the president, saying he believed the push for political investigations was coming from Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s personal lawyer, but had not spoken to Giuliani or Trump about it.
“I think it was coming from Giuliani,” he said, referring to Trump’s lawyer. “I don’t know what was in the president’s mind.” Trump has said he did nothing wrong.


GEORGE KENT
Kent testified on Oct. 15 that he had been alarmed by efforts by Giuliani and others to pressure Ukraine into investigating the Bidens and the 2016 election.
“POTUS wanted nothing less than President Zelenskiy to go to (a) microphone and say ‘investigations,’ ‘Biden,’ and ‘Clinton,’” Kent said he had heard from other officials, using an acronym for President of the United States.
Kent said Giuliani ran a successful campaign to push U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch out of her post.
“Giuliani...had been carrying on a campaign for several months full of lies and incorrect information about Ambassador Yovanovitch, so this was a continuation of his campaign of lies.”
“After Giuliani attacked me ... in his late May interview, I was told to keep my head down and lower my profile in Ukraine.”
 

NihonTiger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,877
Imagine Trump gets through his whole term unscathed.

Imagine a guy deconstructs the very fabric of accountability and integrity that upholds a huge institution such as the White House, and gets through his term unscathed.

Imagine the Democrats fail to dethrone him while he is actively causing massive cultural, economic and social damage.

It won't just look bad for the future - it will set a precedent whereby ANYONE in office can get away with ANYTHING and there are no consequences. It'll be easy for Republicans to do even worse and triple down on their base. Their base will be ratified by Trump getting through his whole term.

Dumping him next year in the elections will be a terrible outcome. The institution needs to show that Trumpian politics WILL NOT STAND.
The problem is Nixon/Watergate should have taught this lesson in the first place, that you should not do things this brazenly illegal.

Instead, the lesson learned was just "Don't get caught and don't leave a paper trail"
 

Octodad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,822
I wish Republicans understood that in 50 years, their great-grandchildren will see these videos and be ashamed of them and how they defended such a corrupt President.
“Everyone dies and I am not, you know, I don’t believe in the Homeric idea that you know, immortality comes by, you know, having odes sung about you over the centuries, you know?” - William Barr
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,005
The entire world will be watching, waiting to see how America deals with this fascist orange clown. I hope there is no terror caused by the extremists that make up his base.
 

Voyager

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,241
The problem is Nixon/Watergate should have taught this lesson in the first place, that you should not do things this brazenly illegal.

Instead, the lesson learned was just "Don't get caught and don't leave a paper trail"
And create a propaganda network to cover the Republican parties ass.
 

JDFaulky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,185
Why is Twitter freaking out about this? They're not voting to impeach him today, are they? ImpeachmentDay is trending and I'm confused.
 
OP
OP
RustyNails

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,418
I might be the minority on this, but i think this is completely useless and just a distraction considering we will dump the orange clown next year.
What precedent will it set? if you're rich and you got your party in your pocket, you can do whatever you want and no one will impeach you because in 4 years you will be gone anyway.

Also just fyi, there is no guarantee Trump will lose in 2020. Lets not do this here.
 

God_Of_Phwoar

Member
May 29, 2018
2,841
Near London UK
I'm a fortune teller. A prophet. I have brought you some highlights from the future....

Dem: "Did you hear the President ask a foreign power to interfere in an election?"
Rep: "Who is the whistleblower?"
Dem: "Do you believe that a quid pro quo was implied?"
Rep: "This is a sham! This poor, poor, victimised President!"
Dem: "Did you hear the President commit Treason?"
Rep: "Why haven't we investigated Biden, Obama, Clinton?"

And so on,.....
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Terana
I am primed and ready for the fuckery

That this is playing on all the networks signals that this shit is actually pretty important and it won't be good for that Orange fucker when millions sit in front of the TV and have his indiscretions laid out in public.

You could write a billion books and it wouldn't matter. People trust TV. Just look at R Kelly or MJ, it took TV for ppl to finally come to terms with the truth.

Same exact shit will happen here no matter how obstinate Republicans get through the process.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,022
I shouldn‘t care in the first place because I‘m not from the US but the build up and the de facto results of the Muller report as well as the Kavanaugh hearings made sure I won‘t watch this or even get my hopes up that this will lead to anything. If I‘m not mistaken this will end in the Senate majority standing with Trump anyway.
All this does is depress me more that the US is a lost cause politically for years if not decades.
 

modestb

Member
Jan 24, 2019
533
I'm a fortune teller. A prophet. I have brought you some highlights from the future....

Dem: "Did you hear the President ask a foreign power to interfere in an election?"
Rep: "Who is the whistleblower?"
Dem: "Do you believe that a quid pro quo was implied?"
Rep: "This is a sham! This poor, poor, victimised President!"
Dem: "Did you hear the President commit Treason?"
Rep: "Why haven't we investigated Biden, Obama, Clinton?"

And so on,.....
Thank god the 5 minute back and forth is not in use here, otherwise this is 100% what would happen today. Now we can just turn off the long Republican session and get the highlights from someone whose job it is to listen to their drivel.


.... If I‘m not mistaken this will end in the Senate majority standing with Trump anyway.
All this does is depress me more that the US is a lost cause politically for years if not decades.
There's a very high probability of that yes, but not 100%. Nixon resigned due to evidence uncovered during the impeachment investigation itself that brought things to light so bad his Republican colleagues turned on him. It is possible that will happen again. Even if it does not, there might be damaging enough evidence brought out that independents will vote D out of anger and more liberal/centrist Republicans will just stay home next November rather than vote for that piece of crap.

The chances that these hearings move the needle not at all is pretty low, it just also probably won't lead to his removal either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,394
I'm a fortune teller. A prophet. I have brought you some highlights from the future....

Dem: "Did you hear the President ask a foreign power to interfere in an election?"
Rep: "Who is the whistleblower?"
Dem: "Do you believe that a quid pro quo was implied?"
Rep: "This is a sham! This poor, poor, victimised President!"
Dem: "Did you hear the President commit Treason?"
Rep: "Why haven't we investigated Biden, Obama, Clinton?"

And so on,.....
thats not how its working anymore.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,439
I don't think I could stand having to watch live the Republicans being shitlords in this--too frustrating--so I think I'll read summaries later, and follow along in this thread.

I'll watch the Democrats though.
 

TitlePending

The Fallen
Dec 26, 2018
1,174
Why are these times in CST when the hearings are happening in EST?

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS??

Thank god the 5 minute back and forth is not in use here, otherwise this is 100% what would happen today. Now we can just turn off the long Republican session and get the highlights from someone whose job it is to listen to their drivel.
QFT

Exactly what you'd do when your defense is based around solid substance! Someone commented the following in the article, not sure if true:
  • it's only illegal for the IG to out him
  • it is, however, against House ethics rules.
  • he should be expelled after a quick vote and sent packing

Schiff should explicitly state that at the start of the hearings.
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
I really need them to just call this what it is bribery. Stop with the quid pro quo bullshit. The Republican line is quid pro quo isn't illegal they can't say the same about bribery.
 

Fatmanp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,242

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,439
I really need them to just call this what it is bribery. Stop with the quid pro quo bullshit. The Republican line is quid pro quo isn't illegal they can't say the same about bribery.
Bribery being explicitly mentioned in the impeachment article of the constitution also helps.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,776
Going to be tough staying productive at work today. I'll be following this thread closely. Maybe even have an opinion or two from time to time. But keep the updates coming and let the fuckery begin.