Impeachment Hearings Day 5, Dr. Fiona Hill and David Holmes testify (live now). This is the last one!

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
Somewhere
Okay so I just caught up on today's stuff.

1. Jim Jordan berated the hell out of Holmes. How the hell is that not punishable? There's really no function in a house hearing for the Chairman to shut him up when it's obvious he's just interrupting to stop the witness from incriminating his side?

2. Why is Jordan insisting that Taylor didn't mention Holmes' call? He mentioned it SEVERAL times and even directly mentioned Holmes' closed deposition! Is his insistence that Taylor didn't mention it in his OWN deposition in closed testimony? He wasn't informed of it until after the deposition...
1. Because we need amended rules for these hearings to prevent Republican shittery.

2. Because Jim and Nunes straight the fuck up LIE.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,616
No one here is under any allusions that the Senate will remove him. He will 100% be "cleared" there by the GOP.

I just can't wait to hear from the likes of Collins and other vulnerable Repubs what their justifications are. How are they going to explain to the American people and their constituents that they voted to make it perfectly okay for a POTUS to bribe a foreign country for political gain? They are giving every future president the greenlight to do so, Trump included.

They vote to clear him and there's literally nothing stopping Trump from calling his buddy Vlad or Kim or Erdogan or even one of our allies and asking for the same shit again.
 

Chaosblade

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,316
No one here is under any allusions that the Senate will remove him. He will 100% be "cleared" there by the GOP.

I just can't wait to hear from the likes of Collins and other vulnerable Repubs what their justifications are. How are they going to explain to the American people and their constituents that they voted to make it perfectly okay for a POTUS to bribe a foreign country for political gain? They are giving every future president the greenlight to do so, Trump included.

They vote to clear him and there's literally nothing stopping Trump from calling his buddy Vlad or Kim or Erdogan or even one of our allies and asking for the same shit again.
Since a supermajority is necessary to remove, I wouldn't be surprised if both Dems and Reps lean into what they think their constituents want to see. Some Rs like Collins might vote to remove, but some Ds like Doug Jones or Joe Manchin might not vote to remove (or abstain) if they think it helps their chances in re-election.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,437
1. Because we need amended rules for these hearings to prevent Republican shittery.

2. Because Jim and Nunes straight the fuck up LIE.

Basically all Republicans have attacked the idea that Russia was behind 2016 election interferance (especially for Trump) at some point during the open hearings and then acted all flustered and offended at Hill's statement. They're all bad actors and lie as easily as they breathe.
 

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,984
1. Because we need amended rules for these hearings to prevent Republican shittery.

2. Because Jim and Nunes straight the fuck up LIE.
I know... I'm mostly just frustrated and speaking in rhetoricals. They need to make changes while they have the majority. This cannot happen again from anyone on any side, in my eyes.
 
Dec 31, 2017
2,477
The name of the game is what people will be thinking during the 2020 election. Republicans will run a sham trial in the senate filled with gaslighting and conspiracy theories; they are brazen in their lies and misdirection. I'm afraid they have a strong chance of deflecting away from this still, but we'll see. They will never remove him either way, but they can take the momentum away from the dems when this hits the senate.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
Somewhere
I know... I'm mostly just frustrated and speaking in rhetoricals. They need to make changes while they have the majority. This cannot happen again from anyone on any side, in my eyes.
What we *need* is to win the presidency AND the senate. And then we need to absolutely fucking SHOVE amendments down the line that prevent every single issue the Republicans have exploited in the past 3 years. And anything that could be abused that they missed.

Fix the system so it can never be abused like this again.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,772
If Hunter Biden being on Bursima was such a big deal how come no one noticed in 2014 when Hunter first joined the board?

Also, Biden making money at a private company in Ukraine is less concerning than all of Trump's fucking spawn mooching tax dollars doing God knows what.

It's a nothing fucking scandal. Bursima gave Hunter a cheque to essentially be a lobbyist, throw a stone in D.C. and you'll hit two lobbyists, the Republicans do not care about this. Trump's advisor Manafort worked for Ukrainian political entity and that's NBD, but working in a private Ukrainian company is. It's bullshit.
 

digdug2k

Member
Mar 28, 2018
744
Then launch a US investigation, fine, without blackmailing a foreign president into doing it for you. That's the point of this whole thing. The problem isn't the investigation itself, it's how Trump used it as leverage for his personal political gain.
Nah. The roblem is the investigation. We have whole huge departments to investigate this stuff that can do it independently and without bias. As soon as any reasonable person (whether thats the president or random FBI agent) saw the conflict of interest they'd make sure to distance themselves from it as much as possible. Trump sent his personal lawyer to ask a foreign country to do it instead. It doesn't matter what he offered. The investigation IS the problem.
 

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,984
What we *need* is to win the presidency AND the senate. And then we need to absolutely fucking SHOVE amendments down the line that prevent every single issue the Republicans have exploited in the past 3 years. And anything that could be abused that they missed.

Fix the system so it can never be abused like this again.
Yeah. Just fucking railroad actual reforms of every single thing Trump and the GOP Congressionals have taken advantage of. No more handshakes no more honor system. Codify it all.
 

N.Domixis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
7,165
Would have been a better ending if he had done the following.

I.. am.............. Adam Schiff
*smashes hammer down*
 
Oct 29, 2017
433
It may be petty but I really wanted a Democrat to go after Jordan like they went after Nunes‘ undead ass today.

Fuck, do it covertly if you have to.

„This promising new Ukrainian government, these idealistic and strong young men and women are not just wrestling with fighting corruption within their country, they are also facing a foreign invasion. Left alone by those who they were relying on for protection who were instead acting out of sheer self interest and siding with the powerful over the powerless for their own gain. These young people must‘ve felt like the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Facing an aggressive enemy while being betrayed by the ones they trusted and confided in.“
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
741
Like I hope there is another march on D.C. once Republicans in the Senate don't remove him...like I want millions upon millions to march and shut down all of D.C. for weeks and weeks. We could learn a lot from the Ukrainians. If you are tired of a Russian puppet in office, just kick him out the hard way if our elected officials don't live up to their oath to protect and serve the Constitution. We can only dream I guess.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,772
Yeah. Just fucking railroad actual reforms of every single thing Trump and the GOP Congressionals have taken advantage of. No more handshakes no more honor system. Codify it all.
Trump was in violation of the emoluments clause of the constitution on day-one, I don't think any president can face any kind of consequence if they have 50% + 1 in the house and senate. Documents don't do anything if no one enforces them.
 

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,984
Trump was in violation of the emoluments clause of the constitution on day-one, I don't think any president can face any kind of consequence if they have 50% + 1 in the house and senate. Documents don't do anything if no one enforces them.
Then you create independent agencies that can indict and enforce these things outside of partisan fear of electability. The point is this needs to be changed, not kept as it is now.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,748
Don‘t get me wrong, I want to see the Orange turd impeached as much as anyone, but the Hunter Biden situation isn‘t a good look and in my opinion would warrant an official investigation by American agencies.

That‘s not Republican brainwashing doing its part, it very much looks that bad from an outsiders perspective and the conclusions pretty much draw themselves, which is the only way these Republican dipshits could come to any conclusions at all.

People make jokes about buttery males, Ben Gazi and they will joke about the Burisma thing in due time, but I think these are situations that can be avoided by the Democrats by better vetting and preparing their presidential candidates. These are high profile mistakes that keep happening to high profile candidates. If a candidate brings such shitty baggage with them, maybe don‘t go all in on that candidate.
The Bidens could be corrupt as all hell and what Trump did would still be impeachable.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,155
Schiff needs to run for President. God DAMN what a speech. THATS who we need running the country.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,772
Then you create independent agencies that can indict and enforce these things outside of partisan fear of electability. The point is this needs to be changed, not kept as it is now.
No agency can be as powerful as congress, or the judicial branch, and those are independent branches with equal power to the executive. How confident are you in congress and the supreme court to indict and enforce these things re: Trump right now?
 

Polaroid_64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,909
Is there any doubt that Trump is still pulling the same shit behind the scenes right now? Why would he stop? And why should any president worry about it?
 

Atlagev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
516
Hurd is a cowardly and complicit piece of shit. He shouldn't be allowed to have a peaceful meal in public after he fucks off out of Congress
Absolutely. It might be him I am mad at the most. Nunes and Jordan are uneducated morons, and I don't expect anything from them. Hurd is an ex-undercover CIA agent. He knows how absolutely dangerous, reckless, and illegal Trump's behavior is, but he is putting party first. And he's retiring, so you think that would make him think with his brain, but apparently that is too much for him.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
822
Trump was in violation of the emoluments clause of the constitution on day-one, I don't think any president can face any kind of consequence if they have 50% + 1 in the house and senate. Documents don't do anything if no one enforces them.
The main problem is the two party system imo. In most (all?) other countries, it's really hard for a party to pull the shit the Republicans are pulling, because even if some people don't like the main opposition party, they have third parties they can vote for, and in some cases become major parties (see En Marche in France, or to a lesser extend the greens in Germany)

The two party system just push people to be more and more partisan, because they don't have much of a choice.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,584
No one here is under any allusions that the Senate will remove him. He will 100% be "cleared" there by the GOP.

I just can't wait to hear from the likes of Collins and other vulnerable Repubs what their justifications are. How are they going to explain to the American people and their constituents that they voted to make it perfectly okay for a POTUS to bribe a foreign country for political gain? They are giving every future president the greenlight to do so, Trump included.

They vote to clear him and there's literally nothing stopping Trump from calling his buddy Vlad or Kim or Erdogan or even one of our allies and asking for the same shit again.
The name of the game is what people will be thinking during the 2020 election. Republicans will run a sham trial in the senate filled with gaslighting and conspiracy theories; they are brazen in their lies and misdirection. I'm afraid they have a strong chance of deflecting away from this still, but we'll see. They will never remove him either way, but they can take the momentum away from the dems when this hits the senate.
The smartest move for the GOP would be to keep the trial fairly short, just long enough to plausibly say "see, we did our constitutional duty". The less justification they give for acquitting Trump, the better, for them. Their base doesn't care about justification. They only give the few, but crucial, undecided voters out there more chances to see their bullshit for what it is by speaking at any length.

So I hope they do speak at length. Even though hearing their verbal diarrhea is painful, it does them more harm than good.

That has been one goal of these public hearings: to show that the GOP has no real defense. The Senate trial, given its predetermined outcome, will hopefully do more of the same, while also potentially showing that the GOP is doing something they have repeatedly accused the Democrats of: bending the rules to benefit themselves.

The worst thing the GOP could do, which they reportedly are tempted to do, is refuse to have the trial, or have such a short one that it's obviously a sham. But they are reportedly only tempted, and are going to do as I said above: have a trial that's just long enough to seem real.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,963
Schiff needs to run for President. God DAMN what a speech. THATS who we need running the country.
I dunno about that, Schiff is pretty moderate. He's great at his job but you shouldn't just think someone should be president because they're eloquent without even knowing what their policies would be.
 
OP
OP
RustyNails

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,434
Absolutely. It might be him I am mad at the most. Nunes and Jordan are uneducated morons, and I don't expect anything from them. Hurd is an ex-undercover CIA agent. He knows how absolutely dangerous, reckless, and illegal Trump's behavior is, but he is putting party first. And he's retiring, so you think that would make him think with his brain, but apparently that is too much for him.
He still needs his bonafides for the coveted Fox News Commentator position. Fox News is the highest paying gig in the biz.

Just know, Republicans are craven.
 

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,984
No agency can be as powerful as congress, or the judicial branch, and those are independent branches with equal power to the executive. How confident are you in congress and the supreme court to indict and enforce these things re: Trump right now?
I'm... not? That's kind of exactly my point? I'm speaking about a hypothetical situation where the democrats control congress in the future and I'm suggesting that in that instance they enact new laws and procedures to prevent this from happening again. It has nothing to do with Trump or what happens to him. I've long resigned to the fact he will likely not be removed and likely won't see punishment.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
21,472
I was thinking, damn Fiona would be a great pres.

But yea Schiff is also great.
Fiona can't be a president because of our dumbass laws where even naturalized citizens can't be president.

And Schiff is probably too divisive to run for president now and why take him away from the house when he's doing an amazing job?
 

Plumbob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,682
I actually think Adam Schiff is wise enough to understand his powers are best deployed in the legislative branch.