#ImpeachTrump: Day of Action, June 15th

Orwell

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
345
Except for all the protests that did? The fuck are some of you on about?
And what have these protests accomplished, exactly? It's nothing more than performative outrage, toothless defiance that is laughed at by both parties. The people protesting march until their legs give out or their voices grow hoarse, return to their keyboards, and continue lobbing rhetorical missiles. Rinse and repeat.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,018
So we impeach Trump and get Pence in his place. It seems lose-lose either way.
Keep in mind the current date with respect to the next election and how long impeachment/removal would take. 4 years of Pence is bad. 2 years of Pence is not good. Less than a year of Pence with the House against him, not nearly as bad. Pence is really damn awful, but a lame duck Pence right before he loses the election, might be the least awful situation.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,191
New York City
Pence will never be president. It's not about getting him out of office. It's about winning the next election.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,056
Outside of voting him out of office, the American government almost certainly won't do anything to get rid of him. You Americans literally need to storm the White House. Anything else is inefficient at this point.
 

ghostmind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
User Warned: Drive-by Trolling
Americans are too apathetic to force change, unless it involves fast food.
 
Oct 28, 2017
860
But they should impeach at some point. Pressure has to start and maintain. There is evidence Dems dont ever intend to impeach.
I agree. But the election is 17 months away and Trump has a 90% approval rating among Republicans. The strategic thing to do would be to place impeachment front and centre during election season. Not only does this force Trump to confront obstruction (and potentially conspiracy) charges at election time, more importantly, it keeps him off the campaign trail.

Edit: And, in case it is not clear, Trump will not be convicted. It will never happen. The Senate will not flip and Trump will not resign with his current approval rating.
 
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HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,969
And what have these protests accomplished, exactly? It's nothing more than performative outrage, toothless defiance that is laughed at by both parties. The people protesting march until their legs give out or their voices grow hoarse, return to their keyboards, and continue lobbing rhetorical missiles. Rinse and repeat.
The post I was responding to didn't talk about that. He said they don't happen. They certainly do.
 

Orwell

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
345
Americans are too apathetic to force change, unless it involves fast food.
At this juncture, you can't really call it apathy. Apathy is staying home on November 8th, 2016. Now we're in the stage of the "Good German," and millions of supposed anti-Trumpers are tacit supporters of what he stands for, mainly because they're not impacted by his actions. We are well past the point of apathy being what keeps Trump in office.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,326
Americans are too apathetic to force change, unless it involves fast food.
what if you got a free meal if you marched to impeach Trump
what if that free meal was only Chipotle
what if you had to get pay for guacamole with that free meal
what if Trump suddenly declares war on Chipotle and guacamole

so many permutations for Pelosi to consider

It is interesting that marches kinda died down this decade. I remember worldwide there were tons of marches around the Iraq War back in 2002-ish. Then all the Occupy Wall Street marches, then the million man and woman marches. Not really a whole lot in the last few years, I think?
 

minsk

Member
Jan 28, 2019
70
Jesus Christ guys, if Hong Kong can protest with China looming in the background, you guys can get it together for this. People in many places protest under far more adverse conditions than American protesters face.
 

Critch

Member
Dec 10, 2017
717
There are protests all the time in the US, they just don't necessarily make national news. We still also have had many large scale protests even since Trump's election.
Which have done fuck all. Did we win the House, sure. Does the party not in power typically win in an off year election, also sure.

When the people protesting actually show up to vote for the Democrat like they should have in 2016, then I'll give them some props. As it is, the Senate isn't looking like we're getting that back anytime soon, and who the fuck knows if people will actually show up next year if their chosen one doesn't get the nomination.

In 2018 only 31% of millenial voters actually bothered to put their money where their mouth was. All those fucking protests and all that showed up was 3 out of 10 eligible voters in a demographic that skews left. And yeah, I'm heavily blasting the young voters above all others, because they're the ones that are showing up for the protests and NOT showing up at the polls. Even in an election year you barely can get half of young eligible voters out. In a protest after Trump won, a poll taking at a rally in Seattle showed that half of the people protesting didn't even vote.

Protests in America are a glorified Facebook event. Ways to appear 'woke' and part of the change, but they do not move the needle in the slightest. A day of action (Which in many places, are coinciding with Pride parades) is actually meaningless because they have proven they don't equal any kind of action other than looking good in a selfie. Marches against guns? Nothing. Marches for Women? Nothing.

You want change? Lasting change? Don't have a nice cheerful march through the streets which are dismissed by anyone in power and forgotten the day after. VOTE. When these people start putting as much effort into actually doing the only thing that actually gets results in this country as they do into their virtue signaling, maybe people will take their little pity parties more seriously. As it is, the only thing they're doing is tying up traffic.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,329
Which have done fuck all. Did we win the House, sure. Does the party not in power typically win in an off year election, also sure.

When the people protesting actually show up to vote for the Democrat like they should have in 2016, then I'll give them some props. As it is, the Senate isn't looking like we're getting that back anytime soon, and who the fuck knows if people will actually show up next year if their chosen one doesn't get the nomination.

In 2018 only 31% of millenial voters actually bothered to put their money where their mouth was. All those fucking protests and all that showed up was 3 out of 10 eligible voters in a demographic that skews left. And yeah, I'm heavily blasting the young voters above all others, because they're the ones that are showing up for the protests and NOT showing up at the polls. Even in an election year you barely can get half of young eligible voters out. In a protest after Trump won, a poll taking at a rally in Seattle showed that half of the people protesting didn't even vote.

Protests in America are a glorified Facebook event. Ways to appear 'woke' and part of the change, but they do not move the needle in the slightest. A day of action (Which in many places, are coinciding with Pride parades) is actually meaningless because they have proven they don't equal any kind of action other than looking good in a selfie. Marches against guns? Nothing. Marches for Women? Nothing.

You want change? Lasting change? Don't have a nice cheerful march through the streets which are dismissed by anyone in power and forgotten the day after. VOTE. When these people start putting as much effort into actually doing the only thing that actually gets results in this country as they do into their virtue signaling, maybe people will take their little pity parties more seriously. As it is, the only thing they're doing is tying up traffic.
"Glorified Facebook Event"

This is an ignorant as hell post and completely ignores the sheer impact protests have had throughout history.

You realize the Blue Wave consisted of more than millennials right? Protests helped drive that action and kept that anger high. The amount of people that voted in the 2018 midterms was that akin to that of a presidential election year, which was unheard of. It wasn't just because "the party not in power typically wins in an off year election". It was a blue wave that overcame gerrymandering and voter suppression by incredible margins, which is why the Dems won the House as much as they did.

Without those protests throughout those two years Dems probably would have still won, yeah. But nowhere near on the level that they did in 2018. It would have been a slim majority at best.

Please look at some history before you come in here with takes like this.
 

Deleted member 44125

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
19
I'll be interested to see what these accomplish (if anything) and how many people get out there to do it. I myself am not a liberal and have no reason to protest, but the more people that care about the future of this country the better, even if we're technically not on the same "team." Honestly, I think if the left even wants a chance to take over the Senate and win back the Presidency, you really all need to get on the same page. All this in-fighting, arguing, and defeatism is only going to make the party weaker going into 2020.

This is just my take as an observer on this very left-leaning forum.
 

Critch

Member
Dec 10, 2017
717
I'll be interested to see what these accomplish (if anything) and how many people get out there to do it. I myself am not a liberal and have no reason to protest, but the more people that care about the future of this country the better, even if we're technically not on the same "team." Honestly, I think if the left even wants a chance to take over the Senate and win back the Presidency, you really all need to get on the same page. All this in-fighting, arguing, and defeatism is only going to make the party weaker going into 2020.

This is just my take as an observer on this very left-leaning forum.
The Left fall in love, the Right fall in line. The progressive left is never going to accomplish anything in this country until they realize what the Republicans realized long ago. It doesn't matter how awful the candidate is, you vote for them and you keep them in power no matter what, because they will eventually get you what you want even if it doesn't happen immediately.

After the Bernie vs. Hillary debacle, I have very little hope of Democrats outside of centrists lining up behind Biden if he does take the crown.

"Glorified Facebook Event"

This is an ignorant as hell post and completely ignores the sheer impact protests have had throughout history.

You realize the Blue Wave consisted of more than millennials right? Protests helped drive that action and kept that anger high. The amount of people that voted in the 2018 midterms was that akin to that of a presidential election year, which was unheard of. It wasn't just because "the party not in power typically wins in an off year election". It was a blue wave that overcame gerrymandering and voter suppression by incredible margins, which is why the Dems won the House as much as they did.

Without those protests throughout those two years Dems probably would have still won, yeah. But nowhere near on the level that they did in 2018. It would have been a slim majority at best.

Please look at some history before you come in here with takes like this.
In 2018 31% of eligible voters under the age of 35 voted. In 2016 the number was slightly over 50. The total amount of voters was fully 10% behind 2018, at 49%. The only Presidential Election this was akin to was sometime in the 1920's. The house victories were fine but where we actually needed to win to save Roe vs. Wade, and stop the tide of ultra-conservative judges flooding the courts we actually lost seats. Let's pat ourselves on the back for putting our finger over the leak while the dam's overflowing. And the only thing these protests are about is wanting to do the exact same thing the Republicans did to Clinton and will fare no better due to, again, the results in the Senate.

When these protests actually prod the 69% of people that couldn't be bothered to vote, or the half of the protestors that didn't bother to vote, and accomplish something other than what historically was always going to happen anyway, feel free to carry on with your calls of ignorance and history. This isn't Vietnam, this isn't other countries that shut down with the sheer size and magnitude of their cries, this is the Occupy movement for 2020. A pittance of maybe-voters showing off for their oh-so-virtuous buddies that have to be practically bribed to do the actual bare minimum the country asks for them to do once a year to actually have a chance of doing the thing they claim they want.

 
Oct 28, 2017
2,054
After you impeach him, what will be done about the 60 million people who support him and millions more who're comfortable with the negative peace that beget Trump?
They'll suck it up. Just like all the rest of the crap they suck up.
You idiots. He wants to be impeached. Let’s just ignore him and not give him what he wants.
This isn't a protest for impeachment. It is a protest to start an impeachment inquiry into whether he should be impeached. Huge distinction.
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,859
Québec City
It's nice when people do calls for action, and when said action finally happens, people downplay it.

The very first page of this thread is a glowing example of that.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
You want change? Lasting change? Don't have a nice cheerful march through the streets which are dismissed by anyone in power and forgotten the day after. VOTE.
I voted for Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams and I got fuck all for the effort.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,449
I voted for Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams and I got fuck all for the effort.
Yeah I voted in Broward County, I dont know if my vote was even counted in 2018.

Not to mention the whole lovely "get 3 million less votes, still win" system we have here in the Democratic Utopia of America
 

Critch

Member
Dec 10, 2017
717
I voted for Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams and I got fuck all for the effort.
Yeah I voted in Broward County, I dont know if my vote was even counted in 2018.

Not to mention the whole lovely "get 3 million less votes, still win" system we have here in the Democratic Utopia of America
The votes were one higher than they would've been otherwise. And accomplished more than the protests have.

The Electoral College is bullshit, which hopefully with the popular vote compact someday will be solved. But if we're going down the road of votes not working, then the only solution is protesting, yes, but with weapons.

Personally, I say since the laws are what they are, every Democratic person that wants to protest should do so, and carry the same heavy weaponry that the Conservatives love to showoff anytime there is a Democrat gathering. Let's have an a fully armed pro-choice rally at Statehouses. Then you might be on to something. Other than that, the belief in voting is the only thing that keeps this country going, at least for a few more decades until developing countries kill us all with climate change.

Peaceful protests? Sorry, the hippies had their time, and even that didn't get us home from 'Nam for years after.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,329
In 2018 31% of eligible voters under the age of 35 voted. In 2016 the number was slightly over 50. The total amount of voters was fully 10% behind 2018, at 49%. The only Presidential Election this was akin to was sometime in the 1920's. The house victories were fine but where we actually needed to win to save Roe vs. Wade, and stop the tide of ultra-conservative judges flooding the courts we actually lost seats. Let's pat ourselves on the back for putting our finger over the leak while the dam's overflowing. And the only thing these protests are about is wanting to do the exact same thing the Republicans did to Clinton and will fare no better due to, again, the results in the Senate.

When these protests actually prod the 69% of people that couldn't be bothered to vote, or the half of the protestors that didn't bother to vote, and accomplish something other than what historically was always going to happen anyway, feel free to carry on with your calls of ignorance and history. This isn't Vietnam, this isn't other countries that shut down with the sheer size and magnitude of their cries, this is the Occupy movement for 2020. A pittance of maybe-voters showing off for their oh-so-virtuous buddies that have to be practically bribed to do the actual bare minimum the country asks for them to do once a year to actually have a chance of doing the thing they claim they want.
We lost seats in the Senate because we had the worst election map for Dems in years. Dem seats were up for re-election in some of the reddest states in the union. The fact that we only lost as much as we did despite that map is nothing short of a miracle, thanks to the immense anger against Trump for those two years, that included the protests.

If Hillary had won in 2016, we'd have lost a LOT more than just a few seats in the Senate, because there'd be no public pressure against her (at least not from the Dem side of things).

We won as much as we did in the House because the ENITRE House was up for re-election across the country. The 2018 midterms were unprecedented because the amount of people that voted in it was on par with that of a presidential election.

It wasn't some "slim majority" that was won. It was a BLUE. WAVE.

I'm calling you out on your ignorance because there's such a thing as nuance. There isn't just one factor to consider in how the results of an election play out, which is unfortunately not a popular mindset that people have around here.

You act like the only action that matters is voting, and yes that's the most important. But what I'd argue is just as important, is driving others to vote alongside you. This isn't about "patting ourselves on the back". This is about keeping public pressure up and against Trump, and making sure that nobody forgets just what a menace he is. The people who go out there are making themselves heard and are rallying more and more support in those areas.

The way you speak is that those protests are pointless because "We were gonna win the House anyway because that's how it always is for the party in power!". THAT's the mindset that led us to Trump in the first place. Every public demonstration, every protest, every gathering, all those things do nothing but help drive support for us to help bring more voters to the polls in November 2020.

So don't give me that bullshit saying stuff like these protests are akin to some meaningless facebook event. The people who are out there, right now, demanding action, are doing FAR more to help right now than you currently are.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,080
USA
The rhetoric here is wild sometimes. "You Americans need to get in the streets" ..people point to huge protests, in a thread about an upcoming huge protest for impeachment, "protests are pointless, just vote instead"

Lol
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,191
New York City
It's funny that the most important things in life, the ones that have the potential to chnage the world the most are the things people want to put the least amount of effort into making happen.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
Personally, I say since the laws are what they are, every Democratic person that wants to protest should do so, and carry the same heavy weaponry that the Conservatives love to showoff anytime there is a Democrat gathering. Let's have an a fully armed pro-choice rally at Statehouses. Then you might be on to something.
Preaching to the choir a bit with me. I think armed protests and riots are tools in the toolbox. My ancestors didn't get freed from a town hall debate.

However:

1) I'm personally not about to add to the horrendous gun problem in our culture by buying an AR-15.

2) Police don't like armed black folks and I like living.

3) Good luck convincing the portion of the leftist base who keep conceding ground and good faith to these abusive systems of power and the status quo because a lot of these same folks ruining my quality of life are the family they sit with at Thanksgiving.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,627
I voted for Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams and I got fuck all for the effort.
I'm sorry your vote didn't sway the election. It helped, though. We can only force change if we all stay resolute and we keep working together.

That election was stolen from Stacey, but it was still damn close.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
I'm sorry your single vote didn't sway the election. It helped, though. We can only force change by
I wasn't expecting to sway the elections single-handedly.

My point is that black folks are being tired of told that the ONLY thing to do to enforce change is vote, especially when people supposedly in their own camp will break rank because they didn't get their unicorn politician, or when Democrats refuse to address our specific grievances because we don't have a practical choice BUT to vote for them.

I will always vote in the good interests of the country and my own self-preservation. But I don't expect better from allies and I'm tired of being browbeat about voting. I do vote. Next.
 

Jyester

Member
Oct 27, 2017
218
If you're not working today, why not at least check out a local march if there is one nearby? If there's only ten people there you can report back and say I told you so. If there's a thousand, you can contribute. Either way you win.
 

The-Demon

Alt account
Banned
Jun 7, 2019
262
I voted for Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams and I got fuck all for the effort.
I get it but you cant go into next election with this mentality, thats how she lost. People thought this would be a wash for hilary so lots of people didnt even bother going to vote. This is the time where EVERYONE needs to jumps in and vote. I speak as a Canadian with a current Liberal government, but conservatives that are on the rise with Sheer who is Trump-Lite. Election this october every Canadian needs to vote as well and make sure this fucker dont get in.