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Imperator: Rome |OT| Senatus Populusque ResetAetatianus
- Thread starter Uzzy
- Start date
I think it sold actually quite well at launch but it dropped like a rock after, both in Steam sales charts and player numbers.
We have Rome: Total War though. And Rome II is an amazing game right now.
So maybe Imperator will need 6 more days?
Oof, yeah. EU Rome is and was always a bad game, using it as the baseline explains a lot of things about this release.
Sigh, guess this game is doomed then since Johan is doubling down on the stupid mana nonsense. He just simply doesn't get it. It's a big concern when Johan thinks spending 20 scrolls to insta convert a populace is a fundamentally good idea. Even if it took time to do it would be stupid. Culture doesn't magically change because you will it, the way CK2 does it is absolutely right, culture spreads very slowly from province to province.
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I dont agree with rome 2 being an amazing game right now... maybe some of the dlc scenarios but the main campaign still features some of the worst ai in a total war game. I tried playing the campaing about a month ago and ran into unplayable siege battles twice in the first hour of the game where the ai just sits there broken.
The AI was attacking or defending? It can behave wierdly when defeding but I don't have problems with it attacking, and I do have an... considerably amount of hours with the game.
Both actually. It broke once when it was attacking, first trying to move ladders, ONE AT A TIME, to the walls and then just sitting there.
Then it broke again when I was attacking, started blobbing up at the gate and then just stayed there while my army made it's way around it to the center.
Gave up then, cause it's no fun when that happens. Attila fares much better nowadays.
Then it broke again when I was attacking, started blobbing up at the gate and then just stayed there while my army made it's way around it to the center.
Gave up then, cause it's no fun when that happens. Attila fares much better nowadays.
If you go with the mindset of conquering the map i think you might have quite a bit of fun. At least I am having fun pushing all other big countries around as Rome.
IMO it is not as good as stellaris mainly because it lacks the capability to roleplay. In stelaris/ck2 you can use your ethos/char to roleplay and play in certain non optimized but fun ways. In imperator rome supposedly it should be your culture and your families that instigate your change but the UI really doesn't show how the roman senate matters as well as how a disloyal governor is sabotaging you. Alongside this you can always use an X resource to avert most bad mechanics which means that as long as you keep a healthy stock of each resource you can "ignore" those mechanics.
Just like total war once you reach a certain size you are essentialy unbeatable unless you play very badly. what is cool is that you have a lot of control of your army quality/actions so you can have a small elite force defeat a much bigger army. In my last war a small 16k legion beat a 30k etruscan army. It was cool seeing all the bonuses my heavy infantry got vs their light infantry and just cutting their groups down. I wish EU and HOI had a similar system.
Let's be fair. Rome 2 launch was atrocious. Imperator rome is,relatively speaking, an average AND functional game.
I disagree with rome 2 being amazing. Good? yes! IMO it is vastly inferior to attila, specially in terms of AI and campaign mechanics. The greatest strength Rome 2 has is its amazing variety in terms of cultures and starting positions
I'm not a big fan of Attila. It probably has better AI, but its advantage in campaign mechanics are smaller then they were before Rome 2 was patched up relatively recently. My main problems with that game is that its artstyle hurt the game more than it helps creating a feeling of desolation. The game is too brown, too "unicolor". Moreover, they changed the balance of battles, giving the advantage to cavalry rather than infantry, which I'm not a fan. And of course, Rome 2 runs much better.
But I do think you're right in saying Rome 2 biggest strength in its variety. It's such a rich game with so many different factions and armies. On a side note, I hope we got an Expansion for Three Kingdoms that somehow added the Roman Empire. Rome x China would be epic!
I am not personally too fussed about the state of the game now, but folks who are saying it's barebones, poorly balanced and a dull map painter are 100% right.
It will need several big patches to get it in shape.
However: The core systems in the game, including the mana once it's been properly implemented, are really good. So when this gets polished up it is going to be really excellent. That'll either be via a large mod or Johan's team getting their act together.
My main worry is that word-of-mouth is going to harm this game so badly that support for it dries up in a couple of years.
It will need several big patches to get it in shape.
However: The core systems in the game, including the mana once it's been properly implemented, are really good. So when this gets polished up it is going to be really excellent. That'll either be via a large mod or Johan's team getting their act together.
My main worry is that word-of-mouth is going to harm this game so badly that support for it dries up in a couple of years.
The one thing that these games never really simulated (and, I contend, a real reason why blobbing is such a problem), is information lag. That, and supply logistics.
So seeing that they've further made everything instant and mana-based was disappointing, to say the least. The families as-is feel simultaneously too fiddly and too flat. There's just not much advantage to mastering the mechanics there. So I'd agree that that would be a good way to expand things going forward. Have there be a *lot* of offices, with a *lot* of granularity. You wouldn't have 3-4 faceless Diplomats a la EU4, you'd have a dozen, and if you put them all towards one family, well, they're gonna be happy but everybody else is gonna be piiiissed. And what if that family decides they'd like to be Consul so they start sabotaging your relationships with your neighbors on the DL?
Lots of potential there.
So seeing that they've further made everything instant and mana-based was disappointing, to say the least. The families as-is feel simultaneously too fiddly and too flat. There's just not much advantage to mastering the mechanics there. So I'd agree that that would be a good way to expand things going forward. Have there be a *lot* of offices, with a *lot* of granularity. You wouldn't have 3-4 faceless Diplomats a la EU4, you'd have a dozen, and if you put them all towards one family, well, they're gonna be happy but everybody else is gonna be piiiissed. And what if that family decides they'd like to be Consul so they start sabotaging your relationships with your neighbors on the DL?
Lots of potential there.
It could go even further than that, for example when you decide to get a foreign family from a conquered territory it could go both ways, like naming a diplomat from them could greatly improve the diplomacy in the region, but one could also decide to randomly sabotage your efforts as a revenge for the conquest.
I feel like the whole historical integration of foreign provinces in Rome is totally missed here and instead replaced with forced assimilation.
That would be great!
Families should have whole sets of traits particular to them, influenced by their history and some features of their members. It'd be a great spin on some of the CKII mechanics.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...or-development-diary-6th-of-may-2019.1174793/
1.1 Looking pretty interesting.
1.1 Looking pretty interesting.
I really hope this backlash makes them warry of them just improving over the base CK2 and taking away QoL stuff.
I still dont get why I can have build unions to army but not templates, half the time I just decide to create a 1 unit stack and then create the build to army function to make my "template".
They can only lose with CK3.
It could never be released with the same depth as CK2 right now.
Unless DLC Sales fall off heavily, it is better to still release DLC'S.
Only when you have tech and Gameplay that could not be created in base CK2 would it be a move that would make sense.
(apart from the new modtools) I don't see anything in I:R that would make me think: "I want CK2 with that tech!"
The portrait system is much better, and graphics and animations in general in this new engine. That's it really.
Personally i really really enjoy the following and wish it would be possible to some extent port it to CK2
- Portrait system is better than ck2
- Map size is so cool!
- The new map layout the fuses terrain + political map is great!
- The battles are much more nuanced (thus you have more options then just bigger stacks)
- The UI also scales much better for 1440p then CK2
- The sounds are also much better
I feel like CK3 will have to finally add playing as landless characters to really differentiate it.
Base CK2 was good though. EU:Rome was a big miss from Paradox, which is why you'd think they'd try to learn from their past mistakes instead of repeating them.
The whole point of making I:R should have been to finally make a Paradox game that did the time period right, instead they remade a game that was largely a dud. Then again Johan's posts show that he doesn't really get the ways in which EU:Rome was flawed, so I don't know that they should have ever greenlighted a sequel with him as the lead to begin with. EU:Rome with prettier graphics and EU4 mana seems like it was the vision all along.
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Despite the issues, I'm actually having fun in my Armorica game right now. Almost formed Gaul, need two more provinces. And I just went ahead and allied Rome despite disapproval from the Senate. Rome was constantly attacking me and I got tired of fighting him every time my truce timer was up (I did beat them every time though). I might try to battle Rome again after I form Gaul.
As for the game, I agree it's very lackluster right now. Too many things cost oratory mana and it's at the same time too punishing and too easy. If you end up in a civil war it can quickly completely spiral out of control with civil war after civil war without any way to stop it (this actually happened in my first playthrough). Yet in my current game I'm constantly at 100 loyalty with everyone and everything (all my loyalty bars are ticking up even at 100), making conquering huge swats of land completely trivial.
My characters actually ran out a few times and as far as I can see the only way to get new characters is to full annex a country and integrate families. That seems very odd. Why is there seemingly no way to invite someone to your courts?
AE is silly in this game. In EU4 there's the joke 'AE is just a number', but in this game it actually is just a number. I've been at 30+ AE and it did absolutely nothing.
Sieging makes no sense, it's just waiting. There's very little you can do to actually improve the speed of sieging. I guess the military skill of the leader influences this, but you have very little control over that. Battle system is also borked. The idea of the different battle tactics is cool, but you can only see the enemy army's battle tactic as soon as you fight them, so unless you have a second army standing by, there's no way to actually try to accurately counter the enemy.
Finally, alliances are really fucking crazy in this game. I've only played as tribes and it's insane. You have fucking enormous alliance/guarantees/defensive pact blocks from day 1. Meanwhile, if you take too much land you turn into one tier higher, lose all your alliances and suddenly you can't ally anyone ever again until someone else gets the higher tier power level, completely opening you up for a big alliance to declare on you and decimate you.
Alliances itself work exactly like early days EU4 which again make them fucking insane. You can easily call in your allies every single time, not give them shit and just use them as punching blocks and free manpower. In my current game, I call Rome in every war I can and they just bleed their entire manpower pool empty every single time due to attrition and stuff. I give them nothing every war and they're still completely cool with me. That's broken as fuck.
Vassals are also super odd. Most types of vassals are just completely useless. I guess Tributaries are nice in the early game for some quick cash, but 'Tribal Vassals' are just completely useless. You can't integrate them, you can't get them into war with you. Nope, they just give you a little manpower. Whooptiedoo. The only useful vassals I can get as a mid/late-game Tribe turned Republic are the Feudatories and they are super weird. I have no clue how the game actually decides if you can make a country into a feudatory. For some reason I can't turn any of the Gallic tribes into feudatories, but I can turn Iberian and Germanic tribes? The wiki says it's based on the number of cities, but that seems bull as I've tested on some very small tribes that I couldn't make a feudatory under any circumstance.
As for the game, I agree it's very lackluster right now. Too many things cost oratory mana and it's at the same time too punishing and too easy. If you end up in a civil war it can quickly completely spiral out of control with civil war after civil war without any way to stop it (this actually happened in my first playthrough). Yet in my current game I'm constantly at 100 loyalty with everyone and everything (all my loyalty bars are ticking up even at 100), making conquering huge swats of land completely trivial.
My characters actually ran out a few times and as far as I can see the only way to get new characters is to full annex a country and integrate families. That seems very odd. Why is there seemingly no way to invite someone to your courts?
AE is silly in this game. In EU4 there's the joke 'AE is just a number', but in this game it actually is just a number. I've been at 30+ AE and it did absolutely nothing.
Sieging makes no sense, it's just waiting. There's very little you can do to actually improve the speed of sieging. I guess the military skill of the leader influences this, but you have very little control over that. Battle system is also borked. The idea of the different battle tactics is cool, but you can only see the enemy army's battle tactic as soon as you fight them, so unless you have a second army standing by, there's no way to actually try to accurately counter the enemy.
Finally, alliances are really fucking crazy in this game. I've only played as tribes and it's insane. You have fucking enormous alliance/guarantees/defensive pact blocks from day 1. Meanwhile, if you take too much land you turn into one tier higher, lose all your alliances and suddenly you can't ally anyone ever again until someone else gets the higher tier power level, completely opening you up for a big alliance to declare on you and decimate you.
Alliances itself work exactly like early days EU4 which again make them fucking insane. You can easily call in your allies every single time, not give them shit and just use them as punching blocks and free manpower. In my current game, I call Rome in every war I can and they just bleed their entire manpower pool empty every single time due to attrition and stuff. I give them nothing every war and they're still completely cool with me. That's broken as fuck.
Vassals are also super odd. Most types of vassals are just completely useless. I guess Tributaries are nice in the early game for some quick cash, but 'Tribal Vassals' are just completely useless. You can't integrate them, you can't get them into war with you. Nope, they just give you a little manpower. Whooptiedoo. The only useful vassals I can get as a mid/late-game Tribe turned Republic are the Feudatories and they are super weird. I have no clue how the game actually decides if you can make a country into a feudatory. For some reason I can't turn any of the Gallic tribes into feudatories, but I can turn Iberian and Germanic tribes? The wiki says it's based on the number of cities, but that seems bull as I've tested on some very small tribes that I couldn't make a feudatory under any circumstance.
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So mana is dying. Hard to tell how long it'll take to remake such a core system in the game but I'm glad they're trying!
Might be important so crosspost in the Paradox Topic too:
Wow, they're committing to redesigning core principles of the game. The really low player count must be making them worry.
The year plan for Imperator:Rome
Pompey update looks meety with many interesting new mechanics, Interesting to see what the Livy update adds.
Nice that they will focus the whole year in upgrading the game.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-one-year-plan-for-imperator-rome.1183046/
Pompey update looks meety with many interesting new mechanics, Interesting to see what the Livy update adds.
Nice that they will focus the whole year in upgrading the game.
Got a boring conference call going so I thought I might summarize some of the bigger changes we know are coming with 1.2 for people who haven't been following closely. This is going to be a game overhaul at least as intensive as either 2.0 or 2.2 for Stellaris.
So as a baseline remember that monarch points are going away entirely. They're being replaced by a system called Political Influence which is earned based on the loyalty of your appointed government positions. Many things that relied on MP now rely on some combination of Political Influence, money, tyranny or time.
The big outlier from that is Military Traditions which are now earned by a new currency called military experience, which as you probably guessed is earned primarily by having an experienced military. When not at war you can pay your soldiers more to drill which earns them some experience but also increases the chance they'll become loyal to their general. Hiring mercenaries is a large % malus against your experience.
You can disband Tripp's that are loyal to a general for twice the normal cost but they will be added to that generals personal holdings as loyal veterans that will be included in any rebellion they begin.
You can no longer force pops to convert culture, class or religion and only slaves can be moved manually. Everything else will convert/promote/demote/migrate/emigrate slowly over time based on a bunch of factors. Pops can migrate from or emigrate to the cities of other nations.
Each region on the map will now be either a settlement or a city rather than all cities. Settlements have just one building slot that specializes them in a significant way and can eventually be built up to a city when certain qualifications have been met.
Each city or settlement will now have local food income/expense and presumably a stored amount.
There are now as many as 15 buildings instead of four. Some have restrictions on when or where they can be built.
Some nations will receive unique inventions.
There's a bunch of smaller stuff and maybe some bigger things I'm forgetting offhand, but I think that's a lot from a free update. Hopefully this pushes the game more in a direction that people wanted.
So as a baseline remember that monarch points are going away entirely. They're being replaced by a system called Political Influence which is earned based on the loyalty of your appointed government positions. Many things that relied on MP now rely on some combination of Political Influence, money, tyranny or time.
The big outlier from that is Military Traditions which are now earned by a new currency called military experience, which as you probably guessed is earned primarily by having an experienced military. When not at war you can pay your soldiers more to drill which earns them some experience but also increases the chance they'll become loyal to their general. Hiring mercenaries is a large % malus against your experience.
You can disband Tripp's that are loyal to a general for twice the normal cost but they will be added to that generals personal holdings as loyal veterans that will be included in any rebellion they begin.
You can no longer force pops to convert culture, class or religion and only slaves can be moved manually. Everything else will convert/promote/demote/migrate/emigrate slowly over time based on a bunch of factors. Pops can migrate from or emigrate to the cities of other nations.
Each region on the map will now be either a settlement or a city rather than all cities. Settlements have just one building slot that specializes them in a significant way and can eventually be built up to a city when certain qualifications have been met.
Each city or settlement will now have local food income/expense and presumably a stored amount.
There are now as many as 15 buildings instead of four. Some have restrictions on when or where they can be built.
Some nations will receive unique inventions.
There's a bunch of smaller stuff and maybe some bigger things I'm forgetting offhand, but I think that's a lot from a free update. Hopefully this pushes the game more in a direction that people wanted.
I think the objective was September, but you can already start trying it as an ongoing beta in GOG and Steam.
The beta doesn't yet have all of this stuff and is super super beta. Like missing icons and the AI hasn't been programmed to use some of the stuff. It's interesting though, just really rough.
To be fair, many of the changes you talk about that havent been integrated were added by Johan himself in the latest weeks. Guy has been pulling it off this summer.
Oh yeah I didn't mean that as a slam. I love that this stuff is out there early as I like playing really early access games. Was just a warning for people who don't like that as much.
really appreciate this sumary. I haven't followed the dev diaries, some games have had my attention for a while (looks at total wars)
Haha yeah, first I was... "I-will-not-sleep..." then "Fuck I remember EVERYTHING he said".
anyone playing since the 2.0 update?
it's a good game now. especially the military overhaul
the entire UI overhaul is great too
it's a good game now. especially the military overhaul
the entire UI overhaul is great too
i haven't found the time- Vacination is basically taking my free time away
the game overall just feels better to play. better balance, AI improvements, building improvements, military overhaul (i.e levies, not needing to carpet siege provinces, etc), ui overhaul
it's also nice that the AI expands a bit more historically (still does some ahistorical stuff), but for example rome itself expands a bit more like you would expect
the game kind of feels like it's finding its own identity amongst PDX's GSGs, being a civilization builder
game feels in a good place now for focus to switch to more content to flesh it out
i haven't bought the latest content pack that came with the update but i'll probably buy it soon since im enjoying the game
i kinda forgot about the game for many months but recently had an itch again for anything roman republic/empire and decided to check if the game is any better
it's also nice that the AI expands a bit more historically (still does some ahistorical stuff), but for example rome itself expands a bit more like you would expect
the game kind of feels like it's finding its own identity amongst PDX's GSGs, being a civilization builder
game feels in a good place now for focus to switch to more content to flesh it out
i haven't bought the latest content pack that came with the update but i'll probably buy it soon since im enjoying the game
i kinda forgot about the game for many months but recently had an itch again for anything roman republic/empire and decided to check if the game is any better
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