In Captain Marvel review, RedLetterMedia don't discuss the film for over 15 minutes as they talk about Brie Larson's comments on diversity

ConanEd

Alt account
Banned
Dec 27, 2018
1,033
Yup exactly this.

She has what i call "Jennifer Lawrence Syndrome".

Both really sympathetic during the early years of their careers but the more famous and popular they became the more attitude they got that comes off often as arrogant and bitchy.
JLaw has more Oscar worthy performances on her resume. Also she was dick to that reporter but otherwise I can't remember anything else too obnoxious.
 

Salty Rice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,020
Pancake City
Jesus Christ, you guys are an fucking joke.
Can you tell me why? Am i wrong?

How many threads about JLaw people say the same and people agree but here its some kind of "joke" because it involves Brie Larson that is currently the focus of many people.

Its fine and great that people defend Brie but people cant deny her attitude and personality sometimes that is really cold.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,494
Are people unironically talking shit about Brie Larson in here

Do I need to start throwing hands?
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,655
How much you wanna bet to this just being a subtle variant of "she needs to smile more" without you realizing it?
You are free to draw any conclusions you wish. I’ve watched a ton of press interviews with her since seeing (and enjoying the movie) and she’s just... I don’t know... kind of snobby. Can’t quite put a finger on it.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,956
I personally think it's wack as fuck to tone police and criticize this woman's "attitude" because a bunch of dumbass babies responsible for the problem in the first place cant handle being told something in a way that isn't coddling.

What the fuck is that? When minorities and woman had no voice the majority had all the time and ability in the world to speak out and fix this problem. They instead didnt do shit but reinforce the problem they created. Now that these people do have more of a voice and are advocating for themselves and a better industry, they do not need to be so dilute in their opinion as to not make uncomfortable the literal source of the original issue. Shit is fucking dumb. Grow some thicker skin.

She aint even say anything that is actually offensive or rude or out of line. Wow, if shit aint aimed at you, giving the 1592025 white male take on it is not actually important or does not even matter. So offensive!!! A bunch of dudes take on Wonder Woman is not that relevant compared to that of a woman. Shocking!!

This isn't anything people havent heard before. People interpreting stuff like this as "you cant have an opinion if you are a white dude" are being openly obtuse. These types of statements have never ever been, "you can't have an opinion", they have always been, "your demographic's over represented opinion is not as interesting or as needed as that of the target group or under represented ones". Which is like, the least controversial statement ever.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,400
Slovakia
Like I really don't see a problem what were they saying.. they didn't dismissed what she was saying or her views.. at most only the way she was expressing them
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
20,237
Can’t quite put a finger on it.
Obviously she just needs to smile more /s
I personally think it's wack as fuck to tone police and criticize this woman's "attitude" because a bunch of dumbass babies responsible for the problem in the first place cant handle being told something in a way that isn't coddling.

What the fuck is that? When minorities and woman had no voice the majority had all the time and ability in the world to speak out and fix this problem. They instead didnt do shit but reinforce the problem they created. Now that these people do have more of a voice and are advocating for themselves and a better industry, they do not need to be so dilute in their opinion as to not make uncomfortable the literal source of the original issue. Shit is fucking dumb. Grow some thicker skin.

She aint even say anything that is actually offensive or rude or out of line. Wow, if shit aint aimed at you, giving the 1592025 white male take on it is not actually important or does not even matter. So offensive!!! A bunch of dudes take on Wonder Woman is not that relevant compared to that of a woman. Shocking!!

This isn't anything people havent heard before. People interpreting stuff like this as "you cant have an opinion if you are a white dude" are being openly obtuse. These types of statements have never ever been, "you can't have an opinion", they have always been, "your demographic's over represented opinion is not as interesting or as needed as that of the target group or under represented ones". Which is like, the least controversial statement ever.
 

Salty Rice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,020
Pancake City
Oct 27, 2017
159
Can you tell me why? Am i wrong?

How many threads about JLaw people say the same and people agree but here its some kind of "joke" because it involves Brie Larson that is currently the focus of many people.

Its fine and great that people defend Brie but people cant deny her attitude and personality sometimes that is really cold.
Don’t really need to explain why you’re coming off as as a sexist asshole.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,491
Yup exactly this.

She has what i call "Jennifer Lawrence Syndrome".

Both really sympathetic during the early years of their careers but the more famous and popular they became the more attitude they got that comes off often as arrogant and bitchy.
Could you link me an interview please where she comes off as bitchy? I wasn't aware she behaved in that way so I just want to educate myself.
 

skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,024
Gonna have to go ahead and disregard anybody who can't come up with another way to describe a woman other than "bitchy" or "cold." Your misogyny is showing.

Oh i see you what you trying to do but its just another word for moody if you dont know.

"Hey look she is calling her a bitch" oh please.


Why is this sexist if i think this for every person of every gender?

There also a shit ton of male actors who have a similar personality.
It's hilarious that you think this is better.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,611
It seemed to me a bit pathetic, they should have reviewed the film as they always do and that's it. It was clear how they felt personally attacked and went into defensive mode (even if they made some good points).
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,219
USA
What is wrong with thinking Brie comes across with an attitude sometimes? Because honestly, I think she does personally and that has nothing to do with her position on social/political issues. I just think she kinda has a cold demeanor. Pretty much all my real life friends think the same thing. Just my opinion.
Yup exactly this.

She has what i call "Jennifer Lawrence Syndrome".

Both really sympathetic during the early years of their careers but the more famous and popular they became the more attitude they got that comes off often as arrogant and bitchy.
Yikes

Also "moody" is absolutely not an improvement in any way
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,956
Why the fuck does it matter if she comes off as "bitchy"? What does that have to do with her point? Where is the legitimacy in that as a criticism of what she has to say?

Why do people think your perception of how she comes across matters when the "supposed" controversy is in her actual words?

Like I'm not being swayed away from her point because she is a "bitch" because that is a personal jab in a discussion about merit of argument. Again, get out of here with this bullshit people. It's weak as fuck and you're weak as fuck if you use it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,179
with mrs. glitches
I’m sorry do I have some kind of obligation to like Brie Larson? Is it ok to have an *impression* of someone?
The sticky part about all of this that she has a point, but she’s making it extremely poorly. So criticism of her making these points turns in to “well you’re just being misogynistic.”

I think Mike and Jay leaned in to it a bit harder than was needed but there was absolutely reason to talk about her external comments around this (at best) middling movie.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,655
I mean do you understand the (even if unintentional) sexist undertones of calling a woman "cold" in this context?
I’m referring to the general media I’ve seen her do, not the specific comments she made about minority representation in media criticism. I fully agree with what she said on that subject. I simply think she has an air about her ... am I allowed to think that ?
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,494
If I had an army of white male pissbabies shrieking like harpies at everything I say I'd probably be a stone cold bitch to them too
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,219
USA
I’m referring to the general media I’ve seen her do, not the specific comments she made about minority representation in media criticism. I fully agree with what she said on that subject. I simply think she has an air about her ... am I allowed to think that ?
Please don't thought police this lol..

I'm saying characterizing her as having a "cold demeanor", especially in a thread about manbabies whining about her criticism of them is a bad look.

For reference someone just wholeheartedly agreed with you who said she's got "Jennifer Lawrence Syndrome" and is "moody".
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,956
The sticky part about all of this that she has a point, but she’s making it extremely poorly. So criticism of her making these points poorly turns in to “well you’re just being misogynistic.”
This is honestly horseshit. What about her point is made poorly? You can criticize her if you can stick to a facts based argument that doesn't obtusely lose the point to harp on minor details.

The issue is people are not doing that. If these people can give legit criticism of film then they are not allowed to lose plainly obvious points that aren't spoon fed to them without getting called out. This extends to all critics who do this surfave level examination.

I just want to hear a criticism that isn't reductive horseshit and tone policing. If people cant express that then they have nothing of value to add to the discussion.
 

LakeEarth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,887
Ontario
As a big RLM fan, I will say that this is becoming a pattern. They never come out good when talking about diversity in film.

There was a recent BotW episode where some cop training video for dealing with "satanic" stuff, and the RLM tore it to shreds for the homophobic comments made in the video. With that, and other episodes along the way, you get the sense that they're left leaning people, but they have a major blind spot that they keep running into, and it's getting to be a bit frustrating.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,791
I wonder how hbomberguy feels about people who don't understand his video at all using it as a defense for shitting on a woman for an unpleasant tone.

As a big RLM fan, I will say that this is becoming a pattern. They never come out good when talking about diversity in film.

There was a recent BotW episode where some cop training video for dealing with "satanic" stuff, and the RLM tore it to shreds for the homophobic comments made in the video. With that, and other episodes along the way, you get the sense that they're left leaning people, but they have a major blind spot that they keep running into, and it's getting to be a bit frustrating.
Maybe they find her comments so frustrating because they are perfect illustrations of how even incredibly well meaning people might have blind spots that make them less than ideal for reviewing or understanding certain content and that only hearing perspectives from these same people leaves an entire segment of the audience underserved.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,494
As a big RLM fan, I will say that this is becoming a pattern. They never come out good when talking about diversity in film.

There was a recent BotW episode where some cop training video for dealing with "satanic" stuff, and the RLM tore it to shreds for the homophobic comments made in the video. With that, and other episodes along the way, you get the sense that they're left leaning people, but they have a major blind spot that they keep running into, and it's getting to be a bit frustrating.
They're not left leaning, they're aggressively cynical "South Park centrists" like many other middle-aged white men. They support the basic legal rights and existence of minority groups, but oppose anyone actually talking about oppressive systemic power structures in any way that casts anything resembling blame on them. They are your typical white dudes who don't understand any of the basic tenets of 21st century social justice, like privilege or diversity, but instead of making any effort to educate themselves they are content to remain in their little bubble vomiting their unsolicited uneducated opinions to an audience of viewers who refuse to challenge them.

I used to love RLM. I really did. They went downhill fast around 2016 when they realized they had an audience eager to hear their political garbage. I want to believe that if someone actually sat down with them for an hour on a Sunday afternoon and actually explained some of these concepts to them, that they might come around. But that desire needs to be expressed before any benefit of the doubt can be given to them.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,219
USA
RLM fans' shifting defense:

There's no problem with RLM.

Ok but you shouldn't watch them for anything other than entertainment. (someone posts an "entertainment" video of everyone laughing at fucking ching chong jokes and justifying it by saying "it's just the way they talk")

Ok but you should only watch these specific types of videos that they do.

I wonder what the next step is?
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
32,574
RLM fans' shifting defense:

There's no problem with RLM.

Ok but you shouldn't watch them for anything other than entertainment. (someone posts an "entertainment" video of everyone laughing at fucking ching chong jokes and justifying it by saying "it's just the way they talk")

Ok but you should only watch these specific types of videos that they do.

I wonder what the next step is?
Usually people say they only watch for BotW in particular but that's where that Rich Evans clip comes from so
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,956
Obviously she just needs to smile more /s

I just find it wild that this is difficult for people to grasp. This is basic basic shit. All these controversies, I dont feel like anyone has even said anything worthy of controversy more than its just whiny brats mad that they are being given a responsibility to be better.

Like people can't fucking seriously be tone policing a woman talking about sexism in her field of work. Is this literally the only thing you can say on the topic. "Oh she was passionate and fierce on her and other woman's mistrearment"?

Man these people need to fuck off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
596
Central NJ
Brie Larson (as a celebrity persona) often has a really appealing insouciance going on; just like this lackadaisical confidence.

I'd share how likeable she is (at least to me) in a different thread, but I'm already in here because I got the obnoxious thumbnail from the video of this topic in my YT algorithm and stopped in to see what the deal was with it and I feel this thread could currently use that.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,219
USA
As a big RLM fan, I will say that this is becoming a pattern. They never come out good when talking about diversity in film.

There was a recent BotW episode where some cop training video for dealing with "satanic" stuff, and the RLM tore it to shreds for the homophobic comments made in the video. With that, and other episodes along the way, you get the sense that they're left leaning people, but they have a major blind spot that they keep running into, and it's getting to be a bit frustrating.
LOL RLM is not left leaning......

Condemning homophobia is basic human decency.
 
Nov 16, 2017
428
Tokyo
One of (if not THE?) biggest movie sites changed their policies due to events surrounding Captain Marvel. This is a big event. WIth their style of "talking shit" youtube vid, it's understandable they'd at least touch on the subject.

No, they aren't right. She wasn't posturing, she was using her power as a face of Marvel & an upcoming mainstream mega-successful movie to enact change within her sphere of influence. She isn't just saying empty words, she has actually given minorities & women more professional opportunities already.

White 40 year old men can appreciate films about different ethnicities & genders but there's still something to being a part of that demographic that gives you more insight & can help you appreciate/see things that a 40 year old nerd can't. You can be an ally and have sympathy towards the issues & hardships minorities & women go through, but if you are not them, then you can never have quite the same insight to those things. You can never quite understand how it feels for some people of colour or a little girl to finally see minority & female superheroes kicking ass (more than once in their life) and not be sidelined for the White Saviours to take the spotlight.
One of (if not THE?) biggest movie sites changed their policies due to events surrounding Captain Marvel. This is a big event. WIth their style of "talking shit" youtube vid, it's understandable they'd at least touch on the subject.

No, they aren't right. She wasn't posturing, she was using her power as a face of Marvel & an upcoming mainstream mega-successful movie to enact change within her sphere of influence. She isn't just saying empty words, she has actually given minorities & women more professional opportunities already.

White 40 year old men can appreciate films about different ethnicities & genders but there's still something to being a part of that demographic that gives you more insight & can help you appreciate/see things that a 40 year old nerd can't. You can be an ally and have sympathy towards the issues & hardships minorities & women go through, but if you are not them, then you can never have quite the same insight to those things. You can never quite understand how it feels for some people of colour or a little girl to finally see minority & female superheroes kicking ass (more than once in their life) and not be sidelined for the White Saviours to take the spotlight.
Lets say your a huge Lord of the Rings fan and have the Similirion or whatever its called and some obscure reference to some event in the Similirion was dropped in the Hobbit Movie that your are reviewing. You may experience a little burst of happiness that your are one of the few people in the audience to understand that reference. However a good reviewer should be able to put that aside and ask the following. Is the acting good, is the amount of exposition just right, is the plot coherent, does the humour land, is the film well paced? These are qualities that anyone regardless of backgound can appreciate and without them any personal connection a viewer could make with the movie is limited. They are also the best parameters we have in terms of our ability to judge the quality of the movie. I am pretty sure that Australians would give Muriels Wedding, The Shine or Rabbit Proof fence a slightly higher score on average than an American or Libyan reviewer but there would certainly not be a massive gulf between the critical consenus. I do feel you make some valid points but would you disagree with this?

And do you think reviewers are the main obstical to representation or is it rather the production companies themselves.Lastly do you think a good looking, white blonde, American Woman is underrepresented in Hollywood?


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Look I feel the main issue is Brie coming across, to some, as insincere. It could be interpreted (or misinterpreted) that she is trying to sell herself and her movie and draw the fact away that she is a good looking, white American female and perhaps falls second on the prominence scale in terms of Hollywood representation. She is doing this for a company that is trying to sell its movie so that some priviliged white men can go buy a second yacht. He's the man to blame not reviewers. Reviewers are not the reason we have waited like 50 movies to cast a female lead, in the Marvel Universe, Disney is.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
835
What is wrong with thinking Brie comes across with an attitude sometimes? Because honestly, I think she does personally and that has nothing to do with her position on social/political issues. I just think she kinda has a cold demeanor. Pretty much all my real life friends think the same thing. Just my opinion.
I think it's okay to feel that way sometimes, though I think it's worth being mindful when you make judgement on tone which are frequently tainted by unconscious biases.

I also think it's worth considering when and where you express this opinion. For example, you make sure to note you agree with her message, but not necessarily the way in which she communicates. I think this section from the wikipedia article on Tone Policing makes a very clear point for the implications of this:

In Bailey Poland's book, Harassment, Abuse, and Violence Online, she suggests that tone policing is frequently aimed at women[1] and attempts to derail or silence opponents who may be lower on the "privilege ladder". She writes that "In changing their tactics to criticizing how the women spoke instead of what the women said, the men created an environment in which the outcome of a dispute was not decided on the merits of an argument but on whether the men chose to engage with the arguments in good faith."[1] and adds that tone policing is frequently aimed at women as a way to prevent them from making points in discussions.[1]

In Keith Bybee's How Civility Works, he notes that feminists, Black Lives Matter protesters, and anti-war protesters have been told to "calm down and try to be more polite". He argues that tone policing is a means to deflect attention from injustice and relocate the problem in the style of the complaint, rather than address the complaint itself.[2] In his Letter from a Birmingham Jail, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. condemned this type of silencing, writing that he was "gravely disappointed" with the "white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than justice."[3]
So while it's good that you clarify you don't disagree with her, people are taking issue with discussing her attitude because, however unintentionally, it distracts from her message and lends weight to her critics that are not engaging this subject in good faith. Bigots and haters are railing against her in particular by leaning into her "attitude" when speaking up, and not necessarily her message. For example, a lot of them are redirecting people toward Alita, where they spent plenty of time promoting girl heroes and similar themes in the promotional run up to the movie. Not a whole lot of resistance to that "messsage". The difference here being Brie is more outspoken and dismissed as being "snobby" or "moody" or "bitchy", and she's not simply expressing her desire for representation, but trying to do something about it..

Even in general it's just a bad move.
 
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Vish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
725
Does anyone have that picture collage of that YouTube personality where they had like 20hours trading Brie for her diversity comments? Can someone post it please.
 

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
32,574
Look I feel the main issue is Brie coming across, to some, as insincere. It could be interpreted (or misinterpreted) that she is trying to sell herself and her movie and draw the fact away that she is a good looking, white American female and perhaps falls second on the prominence scale in terms of Hollywood representation. She is doing this for a company that is trying to sell its movie so that some priviliged white men can go buy a second yacht. He's the man to blame not reviewers. Reviewers are not the reason we have waited like 50 movies to cast a female lead, in the Marvel Universe, Disney is.
They're definitely not equipped to have that conversation though. Every once in a while it seemed like they were about to say something, but then they complain about how "snarky" she was or how she said "white dudes".
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,161
Same here. Why are some posters lumping this video in with the usual GG/incel trash? A lot of their points seem fair.
Haven't listened to the full 40 minutes, but this is what it seemed like to me as well.

Hopefully it’s just cynicism towards corporate wokeness and not something uglier.
And this is basically why. I think it's the former. I have yet see anything from them that hints at the latter.
 

e1it3g4m3r

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
72
Since when does lusting for more diversity where everyone has some semblance of representation = hating white men?
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,494
"Cynicism towards corporate wokeness" is a cheap shield. Hbomberguy's video does a good job of showing how to talk about issues of multibillion dollar corporations exploiting social justice for profit while still being tentatively happy at improved diversity and representation. RLM and other cynical white men simply don't like corporations making money off of social issues they disagree with and disguise it as some kind of anti-capitalist crusade.
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
As someone who absolutely loves Brie Larson (go watch Short Term 12 if you haven’t yet), I was completely on her side regarding this controversy until I saw this video. I’m a RLM fan in passing, but I do find their negativity on anything remotely popular to be draining. I kinda expected their indifference to Captain Marvel, but this was the first time I actually saw Brie’s speech. I had assumed a bunch of man babies had gotten upset over progressive comments (which is still true; the outrage against her is way overblown) but I agree that her speech was pretty bad. The idea that more fields should have more representation is great, but saying you completely don’t care what white male film critics think about films made for minorities comes off as arrogant and needlessly inflammatory. I think all the positive Moonlight/Tangerine reviews kinda highlights that she went about it the wrong way. Wish this whole controversy could be dropped because Brie Larson has been amazing in everything I’ve seen her in since Scott Pilgrim.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,179
I personally think it's wack as fuck to tone police and criticize this woman's "attitude" because a bunch of dumbass babies responsible for the problem in the first place cant handle being told something in a way that isn't coddling.

What the fuck is that? When minorities and woman had no voice the majority had all the time and ability in the world to speak out and fix this problem. They instead didnt do shit but reinforce the problem they created. Now that these people do have more of a voice and are advocating for themselves and a better industry, they do not need to be so dilute in their opinion as to not make uncomfortable the literal source of the original issue. Shit is fucking dumb. Grow some thicker skin.

She aint even say anything that is actually offensive or rude or out of line. Wow, if shit aint aimed at you, giving the 1592025 white male take on it is not actually important or does not even matter. So offensive!!! A bunch of dudes take on Wonder Woman is not that relevant compared to that of a woman. Shocking!!

This isn't anything people havent heard before. People interpreting stuff like this as "you cant have an opinion if you are a white dude" are being openly obtuse. These types of statements have never ever been, "you can't have an opinion", they have always been, "your demographic's over represented opinion is not as interesting or as needed as that of the target group or under represented ones". Which is like, the least controversial statement ever.
Thank you for this fucking great post.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,956
Its just fucking dumb to criticize these works as corporate wokeness plays when they are works made by people under represented groups trying to serve under represented interests.

Its a fucking marvel film. No shit its about money at the end of the day. Can shit be about money but also have a good message? Is that like somethung we need to call out over and over? No one is nominating Disney for woke award of the year. If you aren't applying that criticism to every film that is failing in diversity your just a hypocrit.

Its literally nothing but a criticism that assumes everyone is too fucking stupid to connect the dots. Again, mad surface level examination, if you consider yourself a critic, do better than this
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,161
This is nothing new. They've complained about diversity before. It's something they're completely out of touch with and are fragile about.
Hmm, well, if you've got some specific examples, I'd love to see 'em, but it's certainly new to me.

I kinda expected their indifference to Captain Marvel, but this was the first time I actually saw Brie’s speech. I had assumed a bunch of man babies had gotten upset over progressive comments (which is still true; the outrage against her is way overblown) but I agree that her speech was pretty bad. The idea that more fields should have more representation is great, but saying you completely don’t care what white male film critics think about films made for minorities comes off as arrogant and needlessly inflammatory.
Agreed.