In Captain Marvel review, RedLetterMedia don't discuss the film for over 15 minutes as they talk about Brie Larson's comments on diversity

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,655
Kansas
Wish this whole controversy could be dropped because Brie Larson has been amazing in everything I’ve seen her in since Scott Pilgrim.
How exactly does this "controversy" change any of that? Even if it continues, it doesn't have an impact on what she has done or will do. It's just fragile people being upset that one person doesn't care about their opinion.

That's literally it. She doesn't have to care what any of these people have to say, and that fact that they're mad about that only highlights her point: they feel like they deserve to be cared about. They're fragile babies.

I’d respond properly, but I don’t care about your opinion.



See how arrogant that sounds?
It doesn't sound arrogant, because no one is owed consideration of opinion. She doesn't have to care about yours, and you don't have to care about hers. This isn't rocket science.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,027
USA
I get that RLM have made some questionable off-hand comments over the years, but the fervor with which some people insist on trying to create a narrative of them as alt-right adjacent or something is incredibly persistent and I've never considered them anything but mostly anti-corporate liberal-ish people who don't care much about politics. If anything, their insistence on trying to remain "apolitical" as much as possible is much worse than them trying to appear as centrists - and in any case, all they usually say in these situations is "Stop fucking giving accolades to mega-corporations for their superficial wokeness" which is more or less the thrust of the most recent hbomberguy video that got next to no play here because what some people hate more than anything is being told "consumption isn't activism, and actually consumerism is bad."

The way people have morphed "they commented on it briefly in a much larger review of the film" into "they went on for an extended period ranting about it!" really exaggerates what actually occurred.
Are people actually arguing that they're alt-right though? All I see from them are shitty takes that seem to draw in those kinds of crowds even if they don't identify with it themselves.
This thread is so fucking disheartening
RLM brings em out
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
Their review was problematic and certainly not one of their best, but I agree that the idea that diversity is needed in film review is a bit ridiculous. Films with minority stars such as Get Out (and now Us), Black Panther, Moonlight and others all received excellent reviews. And the idea that adult reviewers would give kids films bad review, well look at Pixar reviews. Where they need diversity is in Oscar selection and other award shows. The Oscars tend to pick safe films and have an obsession with white saviors (see the Blind Side or the problematic Green Book), whereas reviewers on the RT average tend to like daring films more. Not to say there are no problems with reviewers or RT and other aggregators, it's just that lack of diversity doesn't seem to be causing these problems.
A review is not important because of the score it gives.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,027
USA
Like, what does that even mean it wasn’t made for them? Is A Wrinkle in Time about the black experience in America or something? How was it not made for 40 yr old male audience members?
I mean it's a YA movie with a black lead, not to say white guy opinions shouldn't be heard but it's understandable that she finds more value in the opinions of those who are the target audience and are directly impacted by representation.
This is how the manbabies reacted to those photos btw.

Look at this Ice Queen.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,986
You know it’s funny that these guys are frequently referenced(or at least used to be)for their film opinions like were suoposed to take then seriously as critics.

But when someone calls them out on a shitty take it’s satire.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,539
I mean it's a YA movie with a black lead, not to say white guy opinions shouldn't be heard but it's understandable that she finds more value in the opinions of those who are the target audience and are directly impacted by representation.
You could say the same thing about The Last Jedi. Rey is a white female, Finn is a black male, Rose is a Vietnamese female. Should Rian Johnson give a shit about your opinion of that movie since you’re not any of those?
 

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,086
One thing that she has done with regards to having more women and PoC participate in the Captain Marvel press junket is to request for women to be sent to interview/photograph her.

I don't know about what she did in the countries she visited but for Singapore her host for the press conferences here was hosted by a woman. She personally contacted a local female photographer through instagram to help her take offical press photos so that she can give this young photographer exposure. Maybe she also did the same in other countries.
This is what has gotten RLM and others up in arms. Larsen said she wanted new faces at the table. That's it. She's using her clout to open doors for people that wouldn't have otherwise had the access.

No one should be opposed to that.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
You could say the same thing about The Last Jedi. Rey is a white female, Finn is a black male, Rose is a Vietnamese female. Should Rian Johnson give a shit about your opinion of that movie since you’re not any of those?
Is the movie targeting these demographics specifically?
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,027
USA
You could say the same thing about The Last Jedi. Rey is a white female, Finn is a black male, Rose is a Vietnamese female. Should Rian Johnson give a shit about your opinion of that movie since you’re not any of those?
SW is a franchise built on a foundation of white men (look at who made it and who stared in the OT). They grew up with it and rooted on a white male. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's apples/oranges in comparison to A Wrinkle. Luckily, representation has improved drastically with the ST.

Again, I'm not saying those opinions don't matter, but it's understandable that she, personally, finds more value in regard to young people who can relate to that representation, because they bring a different experience to how they relate to the film. That's the way I interpreted those comments.
 

skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,021
You could say the same thing about The Last Jedi. Rey is a white female, Finn is a black male, Rose is a Vietnamese female. Should Rian Johnson give a shit about your opinion of that movie since you’re not any of those?
Looking at the response of TLJ in some areas of the internet?

Absolutely.

The actress who played Rose was forced off of social media because of entitled, white nerds.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
It's not particularly controversial to say that an old white guy's take about the Harry Potter books isn't particularly interesting.
 

clevbrowns95

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,914
A review is not important because of the score it gives.
Yeah, but people nowadays seem to be reading reviews less and focusing more on aggregate film scores and scores from their favorite reviewers. So I don't think minority filmmakers are at a disadvantage when it comes to review and RT scores, and that reviewers can still be objective about their films despite lacking diversity, but of course diversity is always a good thing to bring in new perspectives and analysis of films.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
Of course it is but so is Captain Marvel LOL. It had majority male viewership opening weekend.
Source?
Yeah, but people nowadays seem to be reading reviews less and focusing more on aggregate film scores and scores from their favorite reviewers. So I don't think minority filmmakers are at a disadvantage when it comes to review and RT scores, and that reviewers can still be objective about their films despite lacking diversity, but of course diversity is always a good thing to bring in new perspectives and analysis of films.
That's veering off topic but aggregate scores are bad and should really not be used to begin with.
And there is no insight to be gained for most reviews if they're made by people who are from the same group.
A bro's take on Transformers will always be less interesting than a bro's take on Harry met Sally for example.
Diverse perspectives are not "always a good thing", it's the strict minimum if you want a somewhat interesting take.
 

Bramblebutt

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,457
It's not particularly controversial to say that an old white guy's take about the Harry Potter books isn't particularly interesting.
An old white guy's take on Harry Potter, while more than likely to be uninteresting, is not by virtue of his race, gender, and age inherently uninteresting.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,132
Also see the Ghostbusters stuff where they claimed that the "controversy" surrounding the movie, which included Leslie Jones getting temporarily harassed off of Twitter, was just something played up by Sony Pictures to advertise the movies.
The ultimate irony of all this pseduo-anti-capitalist shit they run with is that that they literally produced three separate videos on GB 2016... because you know it was a relative cash cow for them.
 

Deleted member 32374

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Nov 10, 2017
8,458
Would it really change much? As it is I find their critic of the movie itself pretty fair and their arguments have nothing to do with the surrounding controversy.
That may be, but including the controversy in the same video is making a statement on the review itself.

Anyway, I've been turned off from RLM for a while now, this was also a comment on the backlash at large and the double talk from many people about "separating that art from the artist"
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,539

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
An old white guy's take on Harry Potter, while more than likely to be uninteresting, is not by virtue of his race, gender, and age inherently uninteresting.
My point is that it's very likely that this person will miss what makes Harry Potter special.
Don't believe me? Just look at how the media talked about Harry Potter before the movie deals happened.
It's really really uninteresting.
Of course a good literary critic (which I don't believe there are that many) would be able to make abstraction to that fact to make for an interesting read at least.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
To be fair, HP is one of the most incredibly white ass franchises in literature history.
True but it's target is squarely on kids which was my point.
While interesting that doesn't tell the whole picture, we kind of need the breakdown for other Marvel properties to see if it's not just Marvel movies having that effect on the split.
 

Bramblebutt

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,457
My point is that it's very likely that this person will miss what makes Harry Potter special.
Don't believe me? Just look at how the media talked about Harry Potter before the movie deals happened.
It's really really uninteresting.
Of course a good literary critic (which I don't believe there are that many) would be able to make abstraction to that fact to make for an interesting read at least.
I totally agree with your point. I apologize for misunderstanding your stance; I thought you were making an essentialist argument.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,348
I mean, racism and sexism got old like 400 years ago, but I apologize if the last 24 months or so have been difficult for you.
I swear on everything these people have no consciousness or self reflection to say the idiotic shit they spew so easily


Like, the response and defense of Liam Neeson admitting he terrorized a minority neighborhood for a week got more defense, protection and shouting down anyone that was reasonable uncomfortable with his statement but a white woman saying critics should be more diverse leads to months long campaign of hate and is somehow "white men bashing"
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,554
I totally agree with your point. I apologize for misunderstanding your stance; I thought you were making an essentialist argument.
Not at all.
Regarding reviews I still stand by the Updike's way of doing things
Updike was also a critic of literature and art, one frequently cited as one of the best American critics of his generation.[45] In the introduction to Picked-Up Pieces, his 1975 collection of prose, he listed his personal rules for literary criticism:
1. Try to understand what the author wished to do, and do not blame him for not achieving what he did not attempt.
2. Give enough direct quotation—at least one extended passage—of the book's prose so the review's reader can form his own impression, can get his own taste.​
3. Confirm your description of the book with quotation from the book, if only phrase-long, rather than proceeding by fuzzy précis.​
4. Go easy on plot summary, and do not give away the ending.​
5. If the book is judged deficient, cite a successful example along the same lines, from the author's œuvre or elsewhere. Try to understand the failure. Sure it's his and not yours?​
To these concrete five might be added a vaguer sixth, having to do with maintaining a chemical purity in the reaction between product and appraiser. Do not accept for review a book you are predisposed to dislike, or committed by friendship to like. Do not imagine yourself a caretaker of any tradition, an enforcer of any party standards, a warrior in any ideological battle, a corrections officer of any kind. Never, never ... try to put the author "in his place," making of him a pawn in a contest with other reviewers. Review the book, not the reputation. Submit to whatever spell, weak or strong, is being cast. Better to praise and share than blame and ban. The communion between reviewer and his public is based upon the presumption of certain possible joys of reading, and all our discriminations should curve toward that end.​
And he was really really white.
These guidelines make for better reads imo but they don't remove bias but it's a good start.
You can find really good content from the unlikeliest places but let's say that it is unlikely for a reason.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,720
No one is talking about the real hit piece on this video. Milwaukee was absolutely savaged.
 

MoonToon

Member
Nov 9, 2018
511
Yeah, I saw this on youtube. Clicked on it expecting 1 of 2 things ...

Either they dunk on the manbabies and go on to call the movie "OK" oooor they do this.

Disappointed when I flipped ahead and saw the route they were going.
 

Deleted member 225

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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"Look F-E-M-A-L-E-S, I understand your plight, issues and concerns, but just don't talk about them TOOO sternly ok? Otherwise you sound like a bitch. Me and all my guy friends agreed. #progressive #notsexist"
”I call my guy friends bitches too, so it isn’t sexist when I call her a bitch. In fact it’s sexist NOT to. #staywoke #notsexist”
 

TheModestGun

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,625
After more thought and consideration, I get why people are frustrated with RLM’s characterization of Brie Larson and the general situation. Their criticism basically misses the forest for the trees.

I’ve also not been in a good mental state and feeling a bit nihilistic. A friend passed away on Tuesday so I’ve been feeling a bit of that “nothing matters” mindset in light of his death.

So, sorry for being obtuse.
 

Admiral Neon Elk

It's an anagram.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
329
I still watch a lot of RLM content, but have to agree that their blasé attitude towards major issues is disappointing and offputting.

One thing I've noticed is that old RLM actually had a decent amount of female presence that has been completely missing for years now. Of course, there was Jessi Nakles, who I have to assume ended her relationship with Mike and therefore parted ways with the crew. But, Half in the Bag and Best of the Worst both featured guest reviewers like Lora Story and Gillian Bellinger. And they were all pretty good contributors from what I remember. I don't think there's been a single woman on a RedLetterMedia video since Jessi left years ago.

I recall the second video being pretty NSFW, with a disturbing sexual assault scene from one of the VHS movies, just as a warning. I don't remember much about the first.