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In Captain Marvel review, RedLetterMedia don't discuss the film for over 15 minutes as they talk about Brie Larson's comments on diversity

Nov 3, 2017
5,778
Portland, OR
The reason they were irritated at her sarcasm is clearly motivated by sexism, there's absolutely no reason to deny that and I definitely never intended to, so I apologize. I see no reason to get super defensive here - I want people to actually understand what I meant.
It’s not really about your intent or meaning so much as the role you’re playing in the discussion. You can disagree with someone in a variety of ways, and not all disagreements are adequate. For example, when someone is becoming an alcoholic, saying “well your behavior is destructive but I also understand that you like being drunk so I can seen seeing you’re doing what you’re doing” doesn’t do the trick.

Is the statement inherently wrong? No, but it’s also an inadequate response to harmful behavior.

Simply disagreeing with people who defend sexist rhetoric isn’t enough. It doesn’t get the job done, and at a certain point, silence may as well be complicity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,384
What is with this debate and people taking literally the most uncharitable interpretation of anything that's said in incredibly kind, mostly-agreeing disagreement? I'm not attacking "any kind of minority representation in media" just because I'm pointing out that people should be less totally uncritical of faces of billion-dollar enterprises coming out and making completely benign feel-good statements, that's it.
When people are critical of a superhero movie having a woman protagonist as "corporate wokeness", what does that suggest? Why is concern about "corporate wokeness" primarily being vented at comments made by Brie Larson?
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
3,743
People can point to the Half in the Bag moments for the last several years, from Age of Ultron to Wonder Woman and so on, and say it's an act or whatever, so since no one watched Pre-Rec, here's Rich on the Women's March.


"Cry babies having a fit"
WOW

Rich comes across terrible here.

Surprised that this post got completely overlooked.
 
Nov 3, 2017
5,360
What fucking nonsense.
Next thing you're gonna tell me video games aren't politics too.
When you played MGS 2, did you think the game had a message?
Because it didn't have one, it was just trying to entertain.
Keep your politics out of video games!
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,384
When you played MGS 2, did you think the game had a message?
Because it didn't have one, it was just trying to entertain.
Keep your politics out of video games!
Later on the same person unironically posts this and talks about how it's the single most important and profound thing ever written and Kojima is the prophet modern times.

 
Oct 28, 2017
425
What fucking nonsense.
Next thing you're gonna tell me video games aren't politics too.
I remember talking to a guy that said that he hated politics shows then said his favorite show was Game of Thrones. The capacity for people to not get art and entertainment scares me
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,037
Whenever RLM weighs in on stuff like this, it feels like it has to be intentional with how oblivious they behave.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,303
I remember talking to a guy that said that he hated politics shows then said his favorite show was Game of Thrones. The capacity for people to not get art and entertainment scares me
it's less that and more "keep politics that *I don't agree with* out of X media"
 
May 29, 2018
1,321
People can point to the Half in the Bag moments for the last several years, from Age of Ultron to Wonder Woman and so on, and say it's an act or whatever, so since no one watched Pre-Rec, here's Rich on the Women's March.


"Cry babies having a fit"
I am not affected at all, so why the hell is anyone protesting?

This is pretty disgusting. How out of touch can you be?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,037
Movies are politics what are you talking about. In and out of the movie's contents. Movies often make a political statement (even movies that strive to leave politics at the door are making a political statement). And the actual production? Don't get me started on how political it is.

EDIT: Wow, that's like... That Rich Evans video is fascinating and illuminating. I already knew Rich was problematic af, but comparing people protesting Trump for his declared and enacted attacks on women and women's rights to birthers and talking down to people because they protest? Like, that's some unambiguously misogynist shit.
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
What fucking nonsense.
Next thing you're gonna tell me video games aren't politics too.
Again, this is getting misinterpreted and it feels like no one has any interest in actually understanding what it could possibly mean except the most villainous interpretation possible. I've never, ever believed anything like "keep your politics out of my ____." The political leanings of media should, if possible, be progressive in spirit. I've never believed anything else. People who say "keep politics out of my games" are chumps.

What I said before actually means is: Of course there are politics in products and those politics should be good, but the kind of politics that actually has a material effect on people's lives are the politics of, well, literal politicking. It's a good thing to have movies that have positive messages for underprivileged people. I'm personally glad as a gay dude for something like Love, Simon even if the marketing campaign felt overly sappy and some people treated it like gay cinema hadn't been doing cool stuff for years before that point, but it has a positive impact on people's lives and that's a good thing - but the extent of the affect those things has on people are all personal. It inspires people, it makes people feel better, it lifts people's spirits, all of these things have value, but people shouldn't overstate the actual material political value these movies have considering our present political situation. The political influence of Hollywood shouldn't be overestimated, because its actual ability to materially affect change doesn't seem to go as far as "actually getting the right people elected" if recent political cycles have shown anything, and people treat them with greater importance than I've seen people who actually work on political campaigns.
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
Yeah - but. But they don't get people elected. But they don't affect political policy. But they don't actually have the cultural-controlling influence people would prefer they actually have. If you're not interested in what I'm actually saying and understanding why I think this way, why are you here?

...
hey wait a second
did you just contradict yourself within the same sentence
In what way? I consistently say there that the cultural influence and abilities of Hollywood and it's billion dollar creations has its limits that don't go far beyond the personal value of them, and people shouldn't treat them like they do.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,589
apathy is the death of empathy.
One of (if not THE?) biggest movie sites changed their policies due to events surrounding Captain Marvel. This is a big event. WIth their style of "talking shit" youtube vid, it's understandable they'd at least touch on the subject.
ehhh.
...um, the “controversy” surrounding the movie? Something to do with Brie Larson and junk. I put controversy in quotes because it’s really only controversial to a few people.

Why did they have to address it...I never said they did? I think it’s important to talk about things surrounding a movie in their reviews. It’s what they do.

Idk this was a weird post don’t know why I’m giving it the time but you quoted me so here ya go.
You said it should be addressed, and i was asking why.

How has my post "weird"
People can point to the Half in the Bag moments for the last several years, from Age of Ultron to Wonder Woman and so on, and say it's an act or whatever, so since no one watched Pre-Rec, here's Rich on the Women's March.


"Cry babies having a fit"
He's said far more than that. It got to the point where it was almost every stream.
Like I really don't see a problem what were they saying.. they didn't dismissed what she was saying or her views.. at most only the way she was expressing them
So they were tone policing her. Gotcha.
Why the fuck does it matter if she comes off as "bitchy"? What does that have to do with her point? Where is the legitimacy in that as a criticism of what she has to say?
Since when does lusting for more diversity where everyone has some semblance of representation = hating white men?

I wonder how hbomberguy feels about people who don't understand his video at all using it as a defense for shitting on a woman for an unpleasant tone.
Artist's representation.

They're not left leaning, they're aggressively cynical "South Park centrists" like many other middle-aged white men. They support the basic legal rights and existence of minority groups, but oppose anyone actually talking about oppressive systemic power structures in any way that casts anything resembling blame on them. They are your typical white dudes who don't understand any of the basic tenets of 21st century social justice, like privilege or diversity, but instead of making any effort to educate themselves they are content to remain in their little bubble vomiting their unsolicited uneducated opinions to an audience of viewers who refuse to challenge them.

I used to love RLM. I really did. They went downhill fast around 2016 when they realized they had an audience eager to hear their political garbage. I want to believe that if someone actually sat down with them for an hour on a Sunday afternoon and actually explained some of these concepts to them, that they might come around. But that desire needs to be expressed before any benefit of the doubt can be given to them.
I feel the same.

People used to try and explain these things to Rich during streams. And he just dug his heals in further. And i can't see Mike reacting any different. So that's a lost cause.

Having a micro-penis must be very difficult.
As i person with a micro-penis. Please don't lump me in with that piece of shit.

white men bashing is getting old

Are you implying mr plinket is not real?
When Mike both in, and out of character, says the same tired old shit regarding diversity. It's got nothing to do the character saying that shit.
I went from being absolutely obsessed with them, to not caring at all.

Whenever they say anything that's not about pragmatical film analysis, they say so much shit.
Yeah.
"After watching that Hbomberguy video, there's no point in ever being diverse or inclusive ever now. NO ONE SHOULD TALK ABOUT IT EVER! :D "

I saw a cotfee commercial with a gay couple! Fuck corporations! Never buying that coffee again because they sold a product with diversity!
"I'm not a homophobe. I just hate it when it's forced"
Honestly, Larson is a great actress with a great personality. That twiiter vid just shows her class. Don't understand how anyone can dislike her.

This is how the manbabies reacted to those photos btw.


Not at all.
Regarding reviews I still stand by the Updike's way of doing things

And he was really really white.
These guidelines make for better reads imo but they don't remove bias but it's a good start.
You can find really good content from the unlikeliest places but let's say that it is unlikely for a reason.
That should be shown to every single game critic. And maybe then they might not be such a fucking embarrassment.
After more thought and consideration, I get why people are frustrated with RLM’s characterization of Brie Larson and the general situation. Their criticism basically misses the forest for the trees.

I’ve also not been in a good mental state and feeling a bit nihilistic. A friend passed away on Tuesday so I’ve been feeling a bit of that “nothing matters” mindset in light of his death.

So, sorry for being obtuse.
I'm sorry to hear that.

I mean this with all sincerity.

Based on his social media I'd consider Jack to be the most liberal of the group. I want to say he even called out Rich at one point too but I can't find the source anymore.
Nah. Jack is a white feminist.
When people are critical of a superhero movie having a woman protagonist as "corporate wokeness", what does that suggest? Why is concern about "corporate wokeness" primarily being vented at comments made by Brie Larson?
That they're cunts.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,303
Yeah - but. But they don't get people elected. But they don't affect political policy. But they don't actually have the cultural-controlling influence people would prefer they actually have. If you're not interested in what I'm actually saying and understanding why I think this way, why are you here?
Anything you say before a but doesn't matter. Ask yourself why YOU'RE here. Why YOU'RE invested in this discussion. Because it doesn't seem to be in the service of championing diversity. You are, in fact, dismissing it as unimportant and worthless because Donald Trump is president and Republicans suck.

You ain't slick.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,037
Honestly, that video's pretty revelatory to me. Maybe I forgot Rich being a super shitheel like that, but that's like, the smoking gun that at least Rich is legitimately upset by women's rights.
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
Anything you say before a but doesn't matter. Ask yourself why YOU'RE here. Why YOU'RE invested in this discussion. Because it doesn't seem to be in the service of championing diversity. You are, in fact, dismissing it as unimportant and worthless because Donald Trump is president and Republicans suck.

You ain't slick.
I'm here because I'm interested in talking about Hollywood's political influence, I've heard some discussions about it from podcasts lately, and it's been on my mind. Why do you treat a random poster on a message board as if it's cloak and dagger espionage? I admit my viewpoint is probably a little kill-joy-ish, and yeah I've grown a little jaded since 2016, but it felt to me like people were missing the forest in favor of the trees here. I apologize, genuinely, if this thread's focus needs to be laser-tight.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,286
Curious, have you? Are you in some kind of line of work that would give you regular access to these marginalized groups?
I have and no my professional work does not put me in contact with children.

I also have nieces and nephews and cousins and friends and acquaintances with children.

It’s also not hard to find stories about parents describing such experiences with their children
 
May 5, 2018
196
People can point to the Half in the Bag moments for the last several years, from Age of Ultron to Wonder Woman and so on, and say it's an act or whatever, so since no one watched Pre-Rec, here's Rich on the Women's March.


"Cry babies having a fit"
Y-I-K-E-S.
I had wondered why they all lay into Rich as much as they can. Sometimes Mike obliterates him for minutes on end just for the fun. Turns out he’s just fuckin stupid. Now I wish they would go harder.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,303
I'm here because I'm interested in talking about Hollywood's political influence
No you're interested in dismissing diversity as worthless and impotent. That's what you're doing.

It's helpful for you to boil your viewpoint down to "politics". But I'm not interested in buzzwords. Say what you mean. Say the quiet part loud. We see through you.
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
No you're interested in dismissing diversity as worthless and impotent.

It's helpful for you to boil your viewpoint down to "politics". But I'm not interested in buzzwords.
I believe diversity is important, because that visibility matters more than anything, and it has a value for people personally. I question it's actual ability to influence national politics in a way that materially changes our society beyond that. That is the beginning and end of it. You don't need to try and bully me over slights that don't exist.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,303
I believe diversity is important
But you also believe that it doesn't matter because it won't fix everything wrong with your American government. And you class that as what's truly important. Which means you believe diversity isn't important.

Stop playing games.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,525
Yeah - but. But they don't get people elected. But they don't affect political policy. But they don't actually have the cultural-controlling influence people would prefer they actually have. If you're not interested in what I'm actually saying and understanding why I think this way, why are you here?



In what way? I consistently say there that the cultural influence and abilities of Hollywood and it's billion dollar creations has its limits that don't go far beyond the personal value of them, and people shouldn't treat them like they do.
Why the hell is this important in the context of Captain Marvel or any movie that is diverse or representative? Moonlight is an important and groundbreaking movie. It's a movie that has and will go on to speak to people of intersecting marginalized groups. Praising it doesn't suddenly mean it didn't also make producers and executives money. No one is arguing that and this bullshit doesn't come up in the context of literally every other generic Hollywood movie about white men shooting guns and solving murders. Our culture gets by consistently praising and elevating and discussing the importance and long tail of movies like Casablanca and The Searchers and Annie Hall and on and on without any issue but suddenly we shouldn't be going crazy with the importance of films like BP and CM. It's transparent bullshit that in this age of progress and representation people like you want to act like we're going overboard in lifting up a corporate product. No shit CM isn;t going to remove Trump from office. That's not the reason it's praised as important and art for and/or by minorities doesn't have to be held to that standard to be appreciated when we don't expect that of the other 98% of Hollywood's output
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,291
People can point to the Half in the Bag moments for the last several years, from Age of Ultron to Wonder Woman and so on, and say it's an act or whatever, so since no one watched Pre-Rec, here's Rich on the Women's March.


"Cry babies having a fit"
I love his friend trying to stir him off that dumbass path and him just not allowing it.
 
Nov 3, 2017
5,360
That should be shown to every single game critic. And maybe then they might not be such a fucking embarrassment.
Like seriously it's not even new, and it's pretty adaptable for movies and really all type of media criticism.
It's not even used in film criticism or other more "respectable" media so while I certainly hope this should be more widespread I don't have any hope.
RLM certainly fail in that regard.
 
Oct 31, 2017
581
I believe diversity is important, because that visibility matters more than anything, and it has a value for people personally. I question it's actual ability to influence national politics in a way that materially changes our society beyond that. That is the beginning and end of it. You don't need to try and bully me over slights that don't exist.
MLK thought diversity in media was important enough to call Nichelle Nichols and implore her to stay on Star Trek for the good of the cause. Shows like Will & Grace being seen by millions of people, including suburbanites helped the gay cause in enormous ways, even as it made NBC buckets of money. In many ways, things like diversity and representation in media that 'normal people' see are in many ways, just as important as "real politics", even if you don't believe people should care about it, because it "doesn't relaly matter."
 
Jun 9, 2018
82
I enjoy these guys and their humor but it is disappointing to me that they went in this direction. There are plenty of things to criticize this film about from a critic's perspective without hopping on the Youtube political rage train that seems to be going on. They didn't spend the whole video talking about it but they shouldn't have touched it at all.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,589
Films (like all art) not being political. Is a fucking ridiculous idea. And if you think that. You're a fucking moron, who needs a slap in the face for being so fucking stupid.
Curious, have you? Are you in some kind of line of work that would give you regular access to these marginalized groups?
Honestly, that video's pretty revelatory to me. Maybe I forgot Rich being a super shitheel like that, but that's like, the smoking gun that at least Rich is legitimately upset by women's rights.
Rich suffers from Nerd persecution complex.
Being progressive doesn't matter if you don't become president of the usa and legalize being non white 👏
It's on my to do list.
Like seriously it's not even new, and it's pretty adaptable for movies and really all type of media criticism.
It's not even used in film criticism or other more "respectable" media so while I certainly hope this should be more widespread I don't have any hope.
RLM certainly fail in that regard.
I don't have any hope either, on that score.
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
But you also believe that it doesn't matter because it won't fix everything wrong with your American government.
I believe it has a personal value for people that I would never try and take away. That value even uplifts me in darker times - I've been harassed and treated poorly, not to mention felt deeply lonely, because I'm gay, and media targeted toward gay people does make me feel better and comfort me. But yes, I don't think you can genuinely look at the arc of our politics evolution over the generations and say it has much of a direct impact on changing who controls lever of real power. I don't understand why you keep insisting that I re-iterate this.

MLK thought diversity in media was important enough to call Nichelle Nichols and implore her to stay on Star Trek for the good of the cause. Shows like Will & Grace being seen by millions of people, including suburbanites helped the gay cause in enormous ways. In many ways, things like diversity and representation in media that 'normal people' see are in many ways, just as important as "real politics", even if you don't believe people should care about it, because it "doesn't relaly matter."
But I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all. I'm saying that what changed the situation for gay people in the US was an incredibly active and passionate movement of activists, and Will & Grace was at best a footnote of that. I'm saying that Star Trek's groundbreaking representation of minorities in media was a good thing for all of them, but what will change the lives of people of color in the US goes so far beyond that and sadly hasn't moved a whole lot, particularly for black people. I think people over-emphasize that political influence. That's all I mean.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,303
I believe it has a personal value for people that I would never try and take away. That value even uplifts me in darker times - I've been harassed and treated poorly, not to mention felt deeply lonely, because I'm gay, and media targeted toward gay people does make me feel better and comfort me. But yes, I don't think you can genuinely look at the arc of our politics evolution over the generations and say it has much of a direct impact on changing who controls lever of real power. I don't understand why you keep insisting that I re-iterate this.
You invalidate all of that because instead of championing diversity, you're far more visibly interested in whining about how it's not influencing politics enough.

You are kneecapping yourself. And as a result you come across as insincere.
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
You invalidate all of that because instead of championing diversity, you're far more visibly interested in whining about how it's not influencing politics enough.

You are kneecapping yourself. And as a result you come across as insincere.
If anything what I'm saying is I feel like Hollywood is incredibly weak on this shit and could go way further and more blatant. If these pieces of media can be the catalyst that starts proper activism, then that's great. I guess I just feel like movies and television haven't don't a particularly good job at getting people to make the step from consuming their media to picking up a protest sign, which is the thing that matters more than anything else by several orders of magnitude.
 
Nov 3, 2017
5,360
You invalidate all of that because instead of championing diversity, you're whining about how it's not influencing politics enough.

You are kneecapping yourself.
It's weird because it makes it seem like Will & Grace wasn't part of the movement to help LGBT community.
It's very important to have a visibility on the marginalized group because you give people a point of reference instead of just this mass of angry people that the majority is very happy to ignore.
BECAUSE (and I can't believe this has to be said) IT IS IMPORTANT TO DEMONSTRATE THAT MARGINALIZED GROUPS ARE NO LESS HUMAN.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,303
If anything what I'm saying is I feel like Hollywood is incredibly weak on this shit and could go way further and more blatant. If these pieces of media can be the catalyst that starts proper activism, then that's great. I guess I just feel like movies and television haven't don't a particularly good job at getting people to make the step from consuming their media to picking up a protest sign.
When you make that point you are invalidating diverse media because you are asserting that it's not filling what you think is it's ultimate purpose. Your priorities are screwed and actually have a huge negative impact towards the promotion of diverse media.

Because it's an all or nothing viewpoint. It's a "Be this or I'll endlessly whine about you" argument. And all that does is discourage what you say you're trying to promote. That's why you seem insincere, and why people in this thread are having a very hard time taking you seriously.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,429
USA
People can point to the Half in the Bag moments for the last several years, from Age of Ultron to Wonder Woman and so on, and say it's an act or whatever, so since no one watched Pre-Rec, here's Rich on the Women's March.


"Cry babies having a fit"
LOL wow. Well we got somebody in this thread who defended ching chong jokes.. any takers?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,286
If anything what I'm saying is I feel like Hollywood is incredibly weak on this shit and could go way further and more blatant. If these pieces of media can be the catalyst that starts proper activism, then that's great. I guess I just feel like movies and television haven't don't a particularly good job at getting people to make the step from consuming their media to picking up a protest sign, which is the thing that matters more than anything else by several orders of magnitude.
Why are you posting on the internet instead of organizing and protesting?
 
Jan 22, 2019
226
When you make that point you are invalidating diverse media because you are asserting that it's not filling what you think is it's ultimate purpose. Your priorities are screwed and actually have a huge negative impact towards the promotion of diverse media.
What should be the ultimate purpose of these pieces of media if not to change society? Wasn't that what you were just arguing they have a role in doing? I would be happy if they did that, but given the society we live in, I question they have had that kind of influence. The reason I was criticizing "corporate wokeness" is because these projects will gladly play with elements of diversity, of stating the good sounding words, but only in ways that don't seriously threaten their actual interests, and as a result has an incredibly muted, personal-at-best impact.

Why are you posting on the internet instead of organizing and protesting?
I've spent the last year and ahalf of my life in the process of immigrating, practically. But my husband is in fact an activist in our local riding association of his party, I do actively help him when needed, and we are involved in the local politics we can affect. (Which is hard when you live in a remote town, but we do everything we can.)
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,525
If anything what I'm saying is I feel like Hollywood is incredibly weak on this shit and could go way further and more blatant. If these pieces of media can be the catalyst that starts proper activism, then that's great. I guess I just feel like movies and television haven't don't a particularly good job at getting people to make the step from consuming their media to picking up a protest sign, which is the thing that matters more than anything else by several orders of magnitude.
A) How do you no film patently doesn't inspire that kind of fervor in people?
B) Why is that so important now in regards to diverse movies like Captain Marvel when we don't expect the same from films like The Predator or Taken or Chinatown? Why is that solely the obligation of minority led and produced media? There are 100s of movies AFI deems culturally important or significant, films that literally changed the landscape of the craft but the landscape of US society and they didn't break up banks or end the military industrial complex or end bigotry yet they're still regarded as praise worthy years on from their creation. We already lift up movies despite what effect they have on progressing culture but suddenly it's a bridge too far when that same kind of praise is seen when films like Black Panther or Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel are around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,429
USA
"I think if you're on the left side of things, you should be looking on the inside right now. This crying about Trump.. once he starts actually doing something stupid in office, then you can start [protesting]."

Hahahaha