In Captain Marvel review, RedLetterMedia don't discuss the film for over 15 minutes as they talk about Brie Larson's comments on diversity

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
695
A) How do you no film patently doesn't inspire that kind of fervor in people?
B) Why is that so important now in regards to diverse movies like Captain Marvel when we don't expect the same from films like The Predator or Taken or Chinatown? Why is that solely the obligation of minority led and produced media? There are 100s of movies AFI deems culturally important or significant and they didn't break up banks, or end the military industrial complex or end bigotry yet they're still regarded as praise worthy years on from their creation. We already lift up movies despite what effect they have on progressing culture but suddenly it's a bridge too far when that same kind of praise is seen when films like Black Panther or Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel are around.
I think film has the potential to be that catalyst for people to be sure, but when I look around the political scene of today, it's pretty depressing. The most exciting activism happening right now has more been a reaction to the ghoulish political changes of the last decade. Podcasts have probably motivated more political activism than blockbuster films.

And as far as movies like Predator or Taken go, I think they just don't come up because their politics are absolutely garbage and if anything reinforced the opposite personal feelings that need to be done. Movies like Captain Marvel are actively trying to make a point of sending a political message, and if you draw attention to that then I think of course people talk about it.
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,000
What should be the ultimate purpose of these pieces of media if not to change society? Wasn't that what you were just arguing they have a role in doing? I would be happy if they did that, but given the society we live in, I question they have had that kind of influence. The reason I was criticizing "corporate wokeness" is because these projects will gladly play with elements of diversity, of stating the good sounding words, but only in ways that don't seriously threaten their actual interests, and as a result has an incredibly muted, personal-at-best impact.



I've spent the last year and ahalf of my life in the process of immigrating, practically. But my husband is in fact an activist in our local riding association of his party, I do actively help him when needed, and we are involved in the local politics we can affect. (Which is hard when you live in a remote town, but we do everything we can.)
And do you only play video games that motivate you to start the revolution?

I’m not even really trying to put you in a gotcha moment, it’s just that wanting every piece of media to spur the revolution is a bit unreasonable. Sometimes I just want to see a movie about a guy in a spider suit.

And yeah we can go into a further conversation about corporate responsibility and capitalism but that doesn’t really preclude the fact that everything doesn’t have to be revolutionary all the time
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
695
but i thought she just wasn't doing enough for you and that's why you had this spiel at all
I personally don't feel like movies like this go far enough and Hollywood doesn't deserve the credit it gets for being the influencer that people think they are. That is literally it. You don't have to continue being this in-my-face about it. We don't even fundamentally disagree in our politics yet you're treating me like I said something completely monstrous.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
695
Because I think the selective outrage from people like you over genre flicks that have diverse leads is bullshit. It's gatekeeping. No matter how you try to dress it up.
And I sincerely understand why you feel that way because it's a legit common thing for people to do. I'm not selectively outraged - there's not even anything wrong with Captain Marvel and Brie Larson is a great actress - she was fucking awesome in United States of Tara which is my personal favorite appearance from her - there's no outrage over this film from me at all! I'm just telling you that I am not your enemy on this one.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,416
Then what's your point in telling people to temper their praise of the movie? No one praising the movie is under any allusions that CM will end all politcal strife. No one making or watching it expects it to destroy the GOP and provide clean energy. Sometimes it's enough to create a movie that makes the marginalized person watching it feel genuinely seen and confident and it doesn't need to do anything else. Being frustrated at people praising CM or Black Panther because it "doesn't do enough" is barking at something that doesn't exist. No shit it "isn't far enough". It wasn't made to be the atom bomb for all of toxic culture. That's without even discussing that maybe those movies you don't think "go far enough" only don't because they exist in a culture and an industry that actively pushes back against progress. They don't go far enough because they aren't allowed to by the very industry they are produced in by people interested in maintaining a status quo. It's a miracle that a film like Captain Marvel or Black Panther or Tangerine or Moonlight or Get Out etc. even come out in the first place in an industry that is so filled with people blatantly against the ideals those movies try to get across.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,745
And I sincerely understand why you feel that way because it's a legit common thing for people to do. I'm not selectively outraged - there's not even anything wrong with Captain Marvel and Brie Larson is a great actress - she was fucking awesome in United States of Tara which is my personal favorite appearance from her - there's no outrage over this film from me at all! I'm just telling you that I am not your enemy on this one.
You can't tell someone that you understand why someone feels that way over something you're saying and then go on to say that it wasn't what you were actually saying.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,416
Who in here is saying that.
This! The fact that Captain Marvel exists and isn't horrible is not some sign that everything is better in Hollywood and all it's issues have vanished. We praise Captain Marvel and acknowledge that the Hollywood industry as it is right now is completely fucked and in dire need of an overhaul.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,477
This! The fact that Captain Marvel exists and isn't horrible is not some sign that everything is better in Hollywood and all it's issues have vanished. We praise Captain Marvel and acknowledge that the Hollywood industry as it is right now is completely fucked and in dire need of an overhaul.
But have you seen Hbomberguy's video ? 🤔
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
695
You can't tell someone that you understand why someone feels that way over something you're saying and then go on to say that it wasn't what you were actually saying.
If we're genuinely having this much trouble just coming to a walking-away point because of a point of contention that I genuinely don't understand anymore at this point, I'm perfectly willing to blame myself for starting this with a hastily typed out post on lunch break and reflect on it so I don't say things in that way in the future. I apologize for partially derailing the thread and I'll seek out the opinions of others on this topic for future discussions.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,745
This! The fact that Captain Marvel exists and isn't horrible is not some sign that everything is better in Hollywood and all it's issues have vanished. We praise Captain Marvel and acknowledge that the Hollywood industry as it is right now is completely fucked and in dire need of an overhaul.
The long and short of it is that people think that diverse films just aren't allowed to be mediocre.

Iron Man 2: "it's mediocre but whatreya gonna do, looking forward to the next one"
Captain Marvel: "this is mediocre and therefore just a shameless cashgrab aimed at dumb schlubs who want to watch a woman lead film. virtue signalling fuckmuppets. corporate wokeness, am i rite y'all"
 

JesseEwiak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,151
The long and short of it is that people think that diverse films just aren't allowed to be mediocre.

Iron Man 2: "it's mediocre but whatreya gonna do, looking forward to the next one"
Captain Marvel: "this is mediocre and therefore just a shameless cashgrab aimed at dumb schlubs who want to watch a woman lead film. virtue signalling fuckmuppets. corporate wokeness, am i rite y'all"
Bingo - there are plenty of mediocre movies for white dudes, why can't there be mediocre movies for women, black people, LGBT, etc.

Not everything needs to be Citizen Kane and world changing if a non-white dude is starring.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,745
Bingo - there are plenty of mediocre movies for white dudes, why can't there be mediocre movies for women, black people, LGBT, etc.

Not everything needs to be Citizen Kane and world changing if a non-white dude is starring.
no no don't you see, donald trump is president, therefore if a film doesn't singlehandedly walk his administration out of the white house and into a jail cell it's failed at it's ultimate purpose
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,290
Ann Arbor, MI
People are finally realizing RLM is trash?

Good, they have been wink wink about being anti-SJW and other white male toxic bullshit for YEARS. Glad people are finally starting to notice.
 

K' Dash

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,840
The long and short of it is that people think that diverse films just aren't allowed to be mediocre.

Iron Man 2: "it's mediocre but whatreya gonna do, looking forward to the next one"
Captain Marvel: "this is mediocre and therefore just a shameless cashgrab aimed at dumb schlubs who want to watch a woman lead film. virtue signalling fuckmuppets. corporate wokeness, am i rite y'all"
I'm more worried about: "you didn't like captain marvel, you're an asshole and a bigot" mentality I've seen around here.

I just want to discuss the movie without the politics people attached to it :/
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,290
Ann Arbor, MI
Only took around 5 years

But let's be honest. Lots of people knew and didn't care.
That is what is sad about this, they have shown their ass about playing into the toxic white male stereotype of whining about diversity and feminism for years. This is not new. It's been there for years and they have made comments that made their awful backwards social views known for years.....people just kept their hand in the sand.

I mean you had to be willfully ignorant to not realize they have toxic and backwards views on gender and race. They have made it known for a long time if you were willing to pay attention.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,290
Ann Arbor, MI
I'm more worried about: "you didn't like captain marvel, you're an asshole and a bigot" mentality I've seen around here.

I just want to discuss the movie without the politics people attached to it :/
It's fine to dislike Captain Marvel as a movie.

What isn't fine is to make blatantly sexist offensive comments about women like RLM does.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,780
I'm more worried about: "you didn't like captain marvel, you're an asshole and a bigot" mentality I've seen around here.

I just want to discuss the movie without the politics people attached to it :/
You 100% can discuss and critique Captain Marvel. No one is saying you can’t and almost no one is claiming it’s perfect. Have you been in the threads for the movie?
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,416
I'm more worried about: "you didn't like captain marvel, you're an asshole and a bigot" mentality I've seen around here.

I just want to discuss the movie without the politics people attached to it :/
No one has said that. People are called bigots in the context of the movie because minorities aren't stupid and can tell when someone is genuinely pointing out flaws and when someone is artfuly trying to dodge around their actual bigoted opinions by masking their rhetoric in "critique".
 

K' Dash

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,840
No one has said that. People are called bigots in the context of the movie because minorities aren't stupid and can tell when someone is genuinely pointing out flaws and when someone is artfuly trying to dodge around their actual bigoted opinions by masking their rhetoric in "critique".
You're right. I'll just go to the OT and discuss there, this thread is about RLM.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,478
Sweden
They immediately brought up 'The Wired' interview with Brie Larson - how does that have anything to do with the movie? There are actors/Hollywood figures out there who are just as "off-putting" in interviews, from Joaquin Phoenix to Quentin Tarantino, but you almost never see male reviewers intertwine those sorts of actors/directors' real life personas into their respective artistic works.
They have hammered on Quentin Tarantino in the past for his comments and actions outside his movies, and they’ve done the same for other directors and actors.

In that way, Brie Larson is not being singled out.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,550
Greater Vancouver
Just FYI, in case there was any doubt, it's perfectly possible to not really like the movie for structural or thematic shortcomings and to not fall into a bunch of shitty misogynistic garbage, or to look at Brie Larson with some kind of offended disdain..

 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,477
They have hammered on Quentin Tarantino in the past for his comments and actions outside his movies, and they’ve done the same for other directors and actors.

In that way, Brie Larson is not being singled out.

Well, they say here that Tarantino is an asshole and obnoxious as a person.

There is plenty more where that came from in regards to other directors and actors.
Except for the fact that the context for the two are completely different, making them not comparable at all.
 

Laserdisk

Member
May 11, 2018
7,446
UK
He is the hero we need.
I wonder if Neeson's recent issues will tank MiB or if that was always going to tank anyway?

Just FYI, in case there was any doubt, it's perfectly possible to not really like the movie for structural or thematic shortcomings and to not fall into a bunch of shitty misogynistic garbage, or to look at Brie Larson with some kind of offended disdain..

He didn't like it? I didn't get that at all.
he didnt think it all worked as he could not relate to her as Vers, and I that is kind of the point of the film.
He likes Carol and wanted more of her.
It helps that he is not a scumhole and actually talks about the issues and does not soapbox them.
 
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