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In Captain Marvel review, RedLetterMedia don't discuss the film for over 15 minutes as they talk about Brie Larson's comments on diversity
- Thread starter Cyprinodon Martius
- Start date
Even before then Jessi was hounded off appearing in videos because of the creepy fans, so stuck to off-camera duties instead.
Which is a shame as she was great (as were the other female contributors).
Hey, good on you for actually reevaluating your stance. That's honestly something that a lot of people have trouble with.
Sorry about your friend, man. That's never easy.
Sorry to hear that. Thanks for coming back and reassessing.
"She seems like a nasty person, and you can see it in her performance!" Their words.
Remember how they ran out Gillian by aggressively shipping her with Jay? God, what an embarrassment.
Honestly, the RLM fanbase in general is just trash. Hell, I don't know why Jack and Josh stuck around given the consistent abuse they got up until very recently.
Really sorry about your friend, man. That's really awful.
Thanks for coming back.
A Wrinkle in Time wasn't good. I saw it and barely could squeeze any enjoyment out of it. BUT, some of the good things I did take out about the movie, was that it had a diverse cast and the message was great for a lot of girls (even if badly executed and muddled). I don't know if I count as a diverse voice, being a gay white Mexican man, but I added value to that movie based on my empathy for people not like me that want to watch more movies and representations of themselves in media. And you understand more of what the movie was trying to accomplish if you use that empathy too. It's a valuable movie in that regard, and worth taking it into account. I don't even like Ava Duvernay that much. So I get what Brie Larson was trying to say, even if it did come off like she was saying that AWiT only got bad reviews because men reviewed it. I know she doesn't believe that and that's not what she was saying.
But you just don't see that kind of empathy in RLM or the rest of white male geeks on YouTube, and they are getting less and less relevant by the day with their clumsy tiptoeing around the subject. They act like only their points of view are the objective and standard ones. Worse, a lot of times, it's obvious pandering to their alt-right viewers. There's no need to broach the subject of Brie Larson's comments when doing a review of Captain Marvel. There really isn't, from a purely film critic perspective. The only reason, is because they know it will drive comments and clicks.
But you just don't see that kind of empathy in RLM or the rest of white male geeks on YouTube, and they are getting less and less relevant by the day with their clumsy tiptoeing around the subject. They act like only their points of view are the objective and standard ones. Worse, a lot of times, it's obvious pandering to their alt-right viewers. There's no need to broach the subject of Brie Larson's comments when doing a review of Captain Marvel. There really isn't, from a purely film critic perspective. The only reason, is because they know it will drive comments and clicks.
Just constantly attacking their character or the authenticity of their reactions. If you remember how Jay was treated to begin with, it's a lot like that. Then there were the people who hated Jack for being more outspokenly progressive, even developing the "AIDSMoby" nickname, and constant accusations of Josh being a "tryhard." It was all very tiresome. You look in the comments section of some of their best BOTW episodes and there are people bemoaning the presence of "AIDSMoby and Beardfat." It's died down mostly, but for a long time it was very insufferable.
There's things to criticize with this movie, but their take so isn't it. The only good point they made is that "charity for movie tickets" is bad charity. The rest was poor pandering to men angry that women don't pander to men exclusively.
Nothing the actress said was bad, wrong, or mean. It's just that women aren't expected to actually say such stuff. You know, milquetoast stuff like "maybe we should consider other perspectives sometimes".
And no, certain guys of this forum. It's not automatically "satire" and a-ok because their points are absolutely terrible. Their points are absolutely terrible. That's it.
This take is ridiculous. The lack of diversity is absolutely causing both problems, and bias in reviews as a whole. How can it not?
White men are not automatically the best and most qualified judges of everything. Quite the opposite, many of those do a lot of effort to ensure other voices aren't heard.
Nothing the actress said was bad, wrong, or mean. It's just that women aren't expected to actually say such stuff. You know, milquetoast stuff like "maybe we should consider other perspectives sometimes".
And no, certain guys of this forum. It's not automatically "satire" and a-ok because their points are absolutely terrible. Their points are absolutely terrible. That's it.
This take is ridiculous. The lack of diversity is absolutely causing both problems, and bias in reviews as a whole. How can it not?
White men are not automatically the best and most qualified judges of everything. Quite the opposite, many of those do a lot of effort to ensure other voices aren't heard.
I think honestly it's like... if you use the word "virtue signaling" unironically you've lost the benefit of the doubt.
Nah, I don't agree with this. Having diverse viewpoints due to people's backgrounds and upbringings in film criticism is a very good thing.
I never got that overall vibe, or would dare to look at the YouTube comments section. I wouldn't even consider Jack to be one of the more progressive members.
Yeah, to me it's just common sense. Straight white men being offended at the notion they CAN'T speak for everyone is the most white guy thing ever.
It's certainly been around for a while. I definitely remember people calling Jack AIDSMoby constantly whenever he was on BOTW.
This video was uploaded in 2016.
Progressive is probably not the right word, but he is the most politically outspoken liberally leaning member of the group, given his social media history, and the less savory elements of the fanbase definitely didn't miss that.
Probably? Almost certainly. Pretty much everyone they introduced to their format was hated at one point. The only one who escaped reproach was Mike, because he voiced the Plinkett character so many of their followers evidently identified strongly with.
They have also several times brought up misogyny and terrible portrayal of women in movies. They seem to drop all of these sentiments though, when they feel criticized.
I only recently started watching some of Red Letter's videos. It makes for good background noise when I only want to be semi-engaged. And while I was surprised there was any presence of nuance in their discussions at all, they still maintain a very narrow white male heterosexual viewpoint on things. I mean, just look at their shoes.
It's new people in general but yes they would have that thrown at them as well.
I'm actually kind of disappointed they didn't go for a longer rant on Milwaukee and run the full video of How to Survive Edge Weapons afterwards (by getting the rights or assuming there isn't anyone to dmca it anyway).
That would have subverted my expectations.
That would have subverted my expectations.
Hm. I guess I really just don't read comments sections enough. I posted a few times in the Twitch area, but even then it was chaos and spam commentary.
I'd consider some of them progressive. I don't follow a ton of YouTube personalities as I mentioned before, but obviously they pale to bleeding heart Masshole Moviebob. I started paying attention to him since he went on local sports radio, and noticed Twitter just has a angry hard on for the guy.
Based on his social media I'd consider Jack to be the most liberal of the group. I want to say he even called out Rich at one point too but I can't find the source anymore.
Yeah one thing I've definitely noticed is the complete lack of female presence in their newer content
Yeah one thing I've definitely noticed is the complete lack of female presence in their newer content
Shit happens. Nobody is perfect, and nobody fully gets everything all the time ever. It's good that you're able to show some introspection, and more importantly showcase it publicly-- that's rare, and dserves to be praised.
I think it's safe to say that Mike and Rich are the audience favorites of the RLM crew, and not just for the reason that they were the central figures of the Plinkett stuff but mainly now because they are the most crass of the crew. Their type of humor and talk are the most suspect and maintain the low bar that pleases a certain contingent of their audience. To a lesser extent Jay does this too and goes along with Mike and Rich, but I have a feeling that he's not as warmly embraced by the fanbase because he's A) slightly more left-leaning than Rich and Mike and B) Jay regularly goes into film "snob" mode by referencing obscure arthouse films and directors, which is a quality that again outside of Re:View is usually mocked. Jack and Josh are definitely the most progressive, and surprise, they are the least favorite.
Thanks for checking back into the thread and thanks for sharing man. Sorry to hear about your friend.
I wonder how HBomberguy feels about his video being used as a cudgel to attack any kind of minority representation in media.
Women existing? Sounds like performative wokeness to me. Open your eyes, sheeple!
There's moments in their argument where I can kinda see what they're trying to say. I think they're attempting to criticize Brie Larsons defense of Captain Marvel, by critiquing that it's not a movie that's all great, and that her adamance could be interpreted as her being defensive about a mediocre movie.
However telling people how they should talk about things is always a landmine to traverse, and more often than not RLM comes off as extremely flippant in the video. The biggest example is criticizing her of saying women of color have it hard. The woman was interviewing her. And really she was stating a fact, it's not like she was speaking for a group of people.
They also heavily critiqued how she carries herself. Which I thought was a bit odd since she seemed fine in the clips of her speaking at the podium, and the interview. The one where she's doing a video for a clickbait "type your name into google" is kind of understandable and also, who cares because it's a 4-5 minute clickbait video. She was just doing a bit.
They're on the money of the actual movie itself though. It's a rather weak offering after I'd say a nearly unbroken chain of great movies for the MCU. I'd even wager to say Wonder Woman did the powerful heroic woman film far better than CM did.
However telling people how they should talk about things is always a landmine to traverse, and more often than not RLM comes off as extremely flippant in the video. The biggest example is criticizing her of saying women of color have it hard. The woman was interviewing her. And really she was stating a fact, it's not like she was speaking for a group of people.
They also heavily critiqued how she carries herself. Which I thought was a bit odd since she seemed fine in the clips of her speaking at the podium, and the interview. The one where she's doing a video for a clickbait "type your name into google" is kind of understandable and also, who cares because it's a 4-5 minute clickbait video. She was just doing a bit.
They're on the money of the actual movie itself though. It's a rather weak offering after I'd say a nearly unbroken chain of great movies for the MCU. I'd even wager to say Wonder Woman did the powerful heroic woman film far better than CM did.
Look at this way,
Chris Evans and Mark Ruffalo are far more outspoken with their opinions.
Yet, only Brie Larson gets this much poison aimed at her?
Like come on now. Either you don't like it when a woman speaks her mind or you're foolishly falling for the alt right bullshit.
Chris Evans and Mark Ruffalo are far more outspoken with their opinions.
Yet, only Brie Larson gets this much poison aimed at her?
Like come on now. Either you don't like it when a woman speaks her mind or you're foolishly falling for the alt right bullshit.
I'd feel less sad about it if it weren't clear that that was obviously going to happen if he didn't temper the cynicism a little bit and he triiiiiiiiiied but didn't really make it clear enough
What is with this debate and people taking literally the most uncharitable interpretation of anything that's said in incredibly kind, mostly-agreeing disagreement? I'm not attacking "any kind of minority representation in media" just because I'm pointing out that people should be less totally uncritical of faces of billion-dollar enterprises coming out and making completely benign feel-good statements, that's it.
What I'm trying to state outright is just this: Movies aren't politics, politics is politics. I support social justice causes and most of the people involved, I don't think what Brie Larson is wrong, and RLM using the word "bratty" hit me a little wrong in a way that I think is gross, but these movies are not something people should be this emotionally invested in one way or another because they're just movies. It's genuinely gotten scary how long these arguments go on for. They'll be forgotten in a few years - there's superhero movies every time you turn around now, they come out about as often as Titanfall 2 goes on sale. Diverting any real energy into this kind of thing I just think is misplaced if not genuinely emotionally unhealthy.
At the same time though I don't think RLM is particularly egregious on this topic and at best makes misplaced comments tied in with some language ("bratty") that they should cut down on, but the opening framing of this entire situation was incredibly disingenuous - RLM didn't spend 15 minute unhingedly ranting about the evils of diversity, they just kind of whined about Larson being sarcastic. They shouldn't be put on the same standard as the genuine lunatics of YouTube that made video after video talking about how Larson is an evil SJW and called for a boycott. So the fact that this thread basically got nearly 20 pages off of like a two minute conversation where the worst that happened is they were weirdly condescending to who is a pretty good actress is just totally wild to me when the hbomberguy video in question got almost no traction here at all when I first read about it.
I think people are too happy to fly off the handle these days because the world political situation sucks and everyone wants to turn all their personal interests into political signifiers - because that's something you can change and have a direct impact on when you otherwise feel powerless to stop, well, fascists. People should be cautious not to turn what they spend most of their time arguing about in relation to politics to be so superficial - because yes, that is actually what these media corps are also quite happy with, not to mention the actual fascists themselves.
Like I said, I don't understand why these conversations make everyone assume the literal worst about what anyone involved says. Some people are trying to pretend or whatever, but I'm not one of those people so genuinely, please stop assuming I'm trying to legitimize harassment or belittling of Brie Larson.
You're absolutely right, comics never had anything political to them before this decade. And would you look at SciFi? Only political messages now, totally different from the the good ole days when there never was anything political about science fiction.
Heck no one cared about any message any film carried before and now it's a big deal!
I mean, you're almost there. You say RLM spends a lot of time punching at Brie Larson's sarcasm. You must also realize that RLM is where it is thanks to Mike putting out multi-hour reviews of films that are 100% sarcasm. He's famous for it. RLM's Brand is "sarcastic assholes"
But somehow Brie is wrong for the one time she quipped about diversity in the people covering her press tour.
If you don't want to be seen as someone covering for sexist bullshit, then understand that at minimum there's a fat, rotten sexist as fuck double-standard here in how RLM treat the way Larson talks.
I love how someone say this movies are not politic after Thor Ragnarok being a giant middlefinger to colonialism made by a native from new zeland, Black Panther was Black Panther and Captain Marvel
Yeah corporations are not your friend and every move they made ate calculated but those are still movies written and directed by people and sometimes they manage to have things to say
Pro refuges mensage
Yeah corporations are not your friend and every move they made ate calculated but those are still movies written and directed by people and sometimes they manage to have things to say
They're still problematic (yeah I used THAT word, deal with it) as fuck as long as they're hyper focused on politics when a movie with a female protagonist ends up being mediocre.
We wouldn't be having this conversation if they'd just kept their comments about the movie like they do when a movie about a white dude turns out mediocre.
The problem with this argument is that it ignores fairy observable trends of representation in consumer media and entertainment. It's actually really frustrating for someone to marginalize one being invested in seeing a representation of yourself consumed by the masses. What it does for the mental health of a significant portion of our society.
It's just like...have you talked to little girls after seeing Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel? Black and/or Latino children after Spiderverse? I just don't see how you can make this argument that being invested in the diversity of big corporate media entertainment is a net loss. I honestly don't see how you can say that if you have seen how these historic movies in the past few years have impacted children and adults. I honestly don't.
That doesn't mean you can't have a conversation about corporatism or capitalism but I have yet to see a convincing argument that completely rejects that people be invested in a billion dollar grossing, $200M budget film because fuck big corporations I guess
sorry guys, we gotta let white dudes lay claim to mediocrity as their territory
The reason they were irritated at her sarcasm is clearly motivated by sexism, there's absolutely no reason to deny that and I definitely never intended to, so I apologize. I see no reason to get super defensive here - I want people to actually understand what I meant.
Now ask yourself how your point can even exist detatched from this walkback. Because I'm not seeing it. You either gotta walk back the whole thing or none of it, because it's all connected.