In defense of some police officers in the US.

[Deleted member 8118]

I've been thinking back on the things I've witnessed, and growing up in the place that re-ignited Black Lives Matter's relevance in the US (STL), I must say that, while a lot of news we hear of police officers being negative, that there are some officers out there that truly believe in their job of serving the public and performing their job as a servant of the public first. I'm sure you've seen videos of police officers taking off their belts, radio, etc to play basketball with the youth at the basketball court up the street, the same ones where gunshots go off at night; I've experienced that as a child, and those officers are the ones I think of whenever I look back at my police encounters.

No, I am not here to say 'Blue Lives Matter' (something that started as a counter response to Black Lives Matter in Ferguson, MO). I should have prefaced this thread with that, but I just want to share an outward experience I had as an early teenager.

It was the evening in Saint Louis, about 2008-2009, my brother was going through a stage of un-diagnosed schizo-bipolar disorder. He was manic, constantly on the streets, getting into altercations with people, just uncontrollable. An officer knocked on my parents door, I answer, with my mom and other brother tailing behind me. The officer (black) told me that him and his partner found my brother and told us that my brother was trying to find any way that he could to make them shoot him -police suicide. He flat out told my mom, my brother and I that he was NOT going to take another black man's life and he said that he deescalated with the situation with his partner and booked him for a few nights. He had no reasoning to drive back to my parent's house. He had no reason to at all. Officers are not legally obliged to contact family members of the suspected face to face.

I think back to this and reconcile. I think about what if there were two white officers, one like Darren Wilson and, one that is complacent, though knows that things need to be deescalated. My brother could be gone through suicide by cop. But I also think about how much my brother has been tortured by his own mind, his illness and how much he may have wanted to be gone during that time.

Even I've had encounters with officers and luckily they haven't ended with issue, but me and my brother have a strong belief with holding people accountable for their actions, even when they are under pressure, even if they're in a position of power. You make a mistake, you own it. If you do the right thing, own it.

He's not with us (my family) at the moment, but I miss him every day.

I'd really like to end this thread with fuck Darren Wilson.

 

[Dali]

I saw on the news yesterday something about two cops rushing into a burning car to pull someone out. It was caught on their body cams and you can clearly see the car was engulfed in flames. One of their body cams was even partially melted. So yeah I am mistrustful of police and think the institution is biased and corrupt but at the same time I know there are those that do good.

 

[higemaru]

Something I disagree with leftists on fairly regularly is the role of cops in society. Now of course on one hand, ACAB. But on the other, just don’t give them guns and train police for non-violent conflict resolution. Cops should be trained more like social workers, and less inclined to tackle, manhandle, cuff, or shoot someone who is not (or is) following directions. The most important thing for cops to do, and I think this is widely understood, is to minimize damages, but the person causing the damage counts into that too. One death is too many, let alone the hundreds we see every year. We’d also have to change hiring practices at departments across the US.

 

[wisdom0wl]

I know there are probably good and not racists cops out there, but I just don’t trust them. I’d feel a whole lot better if I never have interactions with them in my life. Ignore me and I’ll go on following the laws, as long as they’re not asinine like drug laws, and pretending cops don’t exist. That’s my ideal scenario.

 

[BLEEN]

I'm sure you've seen videos of police officers taking off their belts, radio, etc to play basketball with the youth at the basketball court up the street

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I'm so jaded with the cops' bullshit that stuff like this to me is just propaganda every time I see a vid like that.

 

[GameAddict411]

I don't think anyone will disagree with the fact that there are many good cops. But the more I thought about how the police force protects the ones that do really bad stuff, it's evidently clear that these good cops are also ok with this as well. Does it make then bad? Not sure. I guess it's relative. But IMO if you are a cop who will do his/her best to protect the people, they would also protect them from Police abuse. Any cop that draw a hard line to their colleagues is hypocrite. This why I think a lot of people consider all cops to be bad.

 

[Bronx-Man]

“Good cops” would do whatever possible they can to weed out the “bad ones”.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Something I disagree with leftists on fairly regularly is the role of cops in society. Now of course on one hand, ACAB. But on the other, just don’t give them guns and train police for non-violent conflict resolution. Cops should be trained more like social workers, and less inclined to tackle, manhandle, cuff, or shoot someone who is not (or is) following directions. The most important thing for cops to do, and I think this is widely understood, is to minimize damages, but the person causing the damage counts into that too. One death is too many, let alone the hundreds we see every year. We’d also have to change hiring practices at departments across the US.

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This would require a systematic change from top to bottom across the entire country. We've empowered and militarized the police to the point of worship on the level of armed forces.

Not for nothing, but for many cops who do get caught in the act of doing good deeds you have to wonder how they would act if they are suddenly in a Ferguson or LA situation. That's the real time when you can see if the cop is actually good or not, how they handle defusing those high tension situations.

The best thing for cops to do is for "the good ones" to band together and work to get rid of the shit at the top. A few in NYC are trying this now and they have a lawsuit out on it.

 

[Heromanz]

There are plenty of good cops but the system is fucked and the sad thing it isn't a secret.

 

[RedMercury]

Nothing good comes from defending them, they already have plenty of defenders who will deify them and make every excuse in the world for them.

 

[Strangelove_77]

I’m too brown to ever trust US law enforcement and they’ve failed me many times as a child when my father was being shitty to me and my mother. Their hands are seemingly only tied when it’s convenient but free to fuck with people when they’re not.

 

[Deleted member 22490]

'm sure you've seen videos of police officers taking off their belts, radio, etc to play basketball with the youth at the basketball court up the street

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Yeah, that's called Copaganda

Citations Needed did a podcast about it

 

[BLEEN]

I’m too brown to ever trust US law enforcement and they’ve failed me many times as a child when my father was being shitty to me and my mother. Their hands are seemingly only tied when it’s convenient but free to fuck with people when they’re not.

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I'm white and I don't trust the cops whatsoever. Rather call my friends, the fire dept, EMT, boy-scouts, a pack of wolves, anyone but the fuckin' police. Fuck 'em.

Yeah, that's called Copaganda

Citations Needed did a podcast about it

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Hah, I fuckin' knew it!

 

[War Peaceman]

finally someone stands up for the little man, the police. thank u op for your bravery.

 

[Deepwater]

It doesn’t matter how many good cops there are if the system is rotten. In fact, it’s pretty irrelevant.

 

[Richiek]

The problem is the entire system of law enforcement in the US is corrupt and racist as fuck and good cops are either unable or unwilling to change the system as a whole. It's a pretty well known that the "blue wall of silence" punishes those who try to call out bad cops behavior.

 

[shintoki]

There are plenty of good cops who do heroic things.

But what we need is for those good cops to hold the bad ones accountable. Its as simple as that. Till then, they don't get a slide

 

[Deleted member 8118]

finally someone stands up for the little man, the police. thank u op for your bravery.

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No need for the passive aggressive bullshit.

Thanks for the contribution, you can find yourself out now.

I do understand where some of the posts are coming from. This current system has a ton of issues, and as said by some, it is rotten to the core.

Don't run the assumption that I'm trying to defend every cop under the sun/moon. There are very few that deserve praise.

Yeah, that's called Copaganda

Citations Needed did a podcast about it

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These days, especially with how much police brutality has been televised, I can understand why it would be called Copaganda, but as I've mentioned, I've experienced some who would genuinely provide for the community back when the spotlight wasn't on police via social media. Now, you have people recording almost all actions police make, which is good, especially with the current track record that most police departments have.

There are plenty of good cops who do heroic things.

But what we need is for those good cops to hold the bad ones accountable. Its as simple as that. Till then, they don't get a slide

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Exactly. This is what I mentioned in my initial post about the one cop who intends to brutalize anyone that does someone remotely bad, and has a partner who knows it is the wrong thing to do, but gets away with it because they (their partner) fears being ostracized from the precinct they belong to.

I think this is an issue with racism in America. Too much is allowed to go seen, but not commented on, which leads people to believe that it's okay. It's fucked.

blue wall of silence

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I didn't actually know there's a phrase for this behavior. After giving a search, I found a ton of articles and information on it.

 

[Orayn]

Working for an inherently brutal, evil, oppressive institution overrides whatever good things individuals might do.

 

[TrailerParkRanger]

I don't think most people have a problem with every single cop individually. I think people have a problem with the police as an organization because of what police culture has become. Even good cops, the ones brave enough to speak out on bad cops, they get destroyed. It's even a trope in police shows that Internal Affairs is there to bring down good cops. The culture of police in the US is fucked. And I think that culture, take people who wanted to be police for good reasons and crushes them until they become part of that system, and it enables assholes who are attracted to petty authoritarianism and should never have been cops in the first place.

 

[Ukraine]

I mean it’s not outrageous to assume that 90% of cops are good. It doesn’t change the fact that the system is fucked up. Even one innocent person shot by cops is too many. It just shouldn’t be happening.

 

[Nepenthe]

I asked a white APD officer assigned to my campus once if he could help me unlock my car door when I locked my keys in it once. We went around the school looking for tools and objects to try and MacGuyver our way into my car, but alas to no avail. He gave me some advice about certain things to keep with me, and about the way certain car doors work during that time, and in the end he seemed a bit pressed he couldn't help me, but I said the fact that he took his time to help with a petty problem meant a lot to me.

And yet I still don't trust policing as a whole. They make me nervous.

 

[NinjaScooter]

The entire institution is toxic. It doesnt allow for good cops to exist. You know what would be a lot nicer and more useful than viral videos of cops playing basketball or smash bros with teenagers? Viral videos of cops speaking out and taking action against the injustices carried out by their peers and coworkers. That is what would make them “good cops”.

 

[amphteamints]

Their job is to protect and serve. We shouldn't laud them whenever they do their job right and say "See? Not all cops." I am inherently distrustful of all police and will be until the day I die.

Also, they're not "Televising police brutality." They're exposing what they've been doing all this time.

 

[BLEEN]

I asked a white APD officer assigned to my campus once if he could help me unlock my car door when I locked my keys in it once. We went around the school looking for tools and objects to try and MacGuyver our way into my car, but alas to no avail. He gave me some advice about certain things to keep with me, and about the way certain car doors work during that time, and in the end he seemed a bit pressed he couldn't help me, but I said the fact that he took his time to help with a petty problem meant a lot to me.

And yet I still don't trust policing as a whole. They make me nervous.

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Yep. A few officers just doing NORMAL HUMAN HELPFUL STUFF doesn't change literally anything.

 

[Kard8p3]

Of course there are good cops, but why the fuck do people have to keep bringing it up? This is like "well ackshually... Not all men.." of the career world. Good cops won't give a fuck if you shit talk bad cops, because why would someone who is genuinely a good person, and knows it become angry about that? I don't become upset when my female friends or Coworkers say shit like" fuck men." because I know they're referring to shitty men, and I even do the same. Likewise, I feel that good cops should do the same and openly denounce the bad shit at every opportunity.

 

[Vilix]

So yeah I am mistrustful of police and think the institution is biased and corrupt but at the same time I know there are those that do good.

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Pretty much the way I feel.

 

[Deleted member 8118]

Pretty much the way I feel.

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With what I've mentioned and whats happened to my brother, Dali is saying just what I feel based on these experiences.

 

[sirap]

When rushing into dangerous life-threatening situations like burning vehicles and armed robberies is an easier choice than speaking out against your corrupt, racist coworkers...you know shit is broken.

 

[Xx 720]

I try to judge people as individuals, but it's hard not to get cynical as you see soo much abuse by the police.

 

[jviggy43]

The problem with policing is the institution itself was founded on racist prerogatives and have remained corroding since so even with good cops the problem is going to persist until it gets overhauled and rebuilt from the ground up.

 

[gfxtwin]

There are police out there who really are actively making communities a better place, and frankly a lot of motherfuckers hate them as a whole and don't consider anyone with a badge as a possible human being who is capable of being ethical be it according to or against protocol, which isn't helping anything. But laws and protocol are obviously outdated and hold the institution as a whole back from being truly impactful is a positive way. Laws need to change and officers need to undergo stricter evaluations that prioritizes empathy and fast, ethical decision making ability under pressure over ability to follow orders and familiarity with firearms.

 

[TylersProphecy]

It doesn’t matter how many good cops there are if the system is rotten. In fact, it’s pretty irrelevant.

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Even one little act of good can make a difference. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Still dont trust cops but yeah, come the fuck on. Even only one good person matters.

 

[Cookie]

There are a few good apples in a rotten barrel.

 

[Deepwater]

Even one little act of good can make a difference. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Still dont trust cops but yeah, come the fuck on. Even only one good person matters.

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You are failing to comprehend the point here. If the SYSTEM is fucked, it does not matter how many good individuals there are because the system makes them irrelevant.

Don’t take my point to be “fuck all good cops”, the point is that we’ve seen good cops to not be able to materially and systemically change the system of policing. Everybody knows a “good” cop but policing is a tool to enact capitalist endeavors thru generating revenue to public and private entities.

Feel good Platitudes are all good and fine but I’m interested in making actionable, observable, and instituional changes. I don’t care about good police officers.

 

[kittens]

Yes some cops are fine people in some ways, and sometimes they do things that are helpful, but very often they are violent and harmful. I want full abolition. We straight up do not need police. The solution to the crime and violence we're seeing in our communities is feeding people, housing people, giving them places to shoot up legally, etc. People are struggling and things are only getting worse under capitalism and white nationalism, and the cure is not more police. The vast majority of 911 calls would be better responded to by a thoroughly trained mental health and crisis responder instead of a cop. I think we need a defense force of some kind, but I think it needs to be democratically organized and community based.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

It's a complicated issue. The primary problem is that police, unions, and those associated with granting and upholding their authority have little interest in reforming.

Even nuanced criticism falls on deaf ears.

 

[TylersProphecy]

You are failing to comprehend the point here. If the SYSTEM is fucked, it does not matter how many good individuals there are because the system makes them irrelevant.

Don’t take my point to be “fuck all good cops”, the point is that we’ve seen good cops to not be able to materially and systemically change the system of policing. Everybody knows a “good” cop but policing is a tool to enact capitalist endeavors thru generating revenue to public and private entities.

Feel good Platitudes are all good and fine but I’m interested in making actionable, observable, and instituional changes. I don’t care about good police officers.

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All I was saying is every good person counts. Like in ops story. If those police werent some of the "good guys", his brother could possibly not be alive right now. You can want mass change. That's FINE, but little things DO add up. One good cop DID make a difference. It wasnt worth nothing like you said. It's not irrelevant. It means something.

 

[BDS]

Yes, it is true that police are the chief enforcers of state violence and institutional bigotry and use their cultural appreciation and power to avoid making any significant changes that would alter their behavior or make life better for the millions of marginalized people they crush under their boots.

HOWEVER, did you know some of them play basketball

 

[bangai-o]

Yes some cops are fine people in some ways, and sometimes they do things that are helpful, but very often they are violent and harmful.

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Out there is some far right-ist board, this very same argument is being used, but with brown or black people in place of cops.

 

[Deepwater]

Out there is some far right-ist board, this very same argument is being used, but with brown or black people in place of cops.

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I wasn’t aware people chose to be black or brown.

It’s almost as if there have been studies about the psychological profiles of people who choose to be police officers.

 

[Masterz1337]

Cops are people too, and there are good ones and bad ones. It's true the job can attract some pretty bad people, but it also attracts some of the best people among us too.

The crusade against cops is horribly misinformed and misintentioned. I understand how black communities can have such strong feelings against police, but it's important to recognize that the reason that many cops, especially good cops can be on edge or suspicious is because systemic racism and the nature of their jobs results in their fear of POC. Systemic racism breeds fear, and fear breeds more personal racist beliefs. It's a self eating snake. There's a reason many black cops "sell out" and support white cops.

Then you have the fact that neighborhoods of POC are less likely to expierence good policing, and you can see why so many people see no value in police, when they rarely if ever have police that are there to protect and serve them, and only see them overly protecting and serving other people, outside their socioeconomic circles.

People like to say the system is rotten, but if that were true you'd have police problems regardless of race. It's definitely sick and needs serious reform. Pretending it doesn't is ignoring the issues, and pretending the system is rotten to the core is to ignore the effective services it provides. hat protect and serve.

 

[kittens]

Out there is some far right-ist board, this very same argument is being used, but with brown or black people in place of cops.

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sounds like a cop forum

I understand how black communities can have such strong feelings against police, but it's important to recognize that the reason that many cops, especially good cops can be on edge or suspicious is because systemic racism and the nature of their jobs results in their fear of POC. Systemic racism breeds fear, and fear breeds more personal racist beliefs. It's a self eating snake. There's a reason many black cops "sell out" and support white cops.

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It feels like you're saying that people of color should have more compassion for their abusers

 

[Deepwater]

Cops are people too, and there are good ones and bad ones. It's true the job can attract some pretty bad people, but it also attracts some of the best people among us too.

The crusade against cops is horribly misinformed and misintentioned. I understand how black communities can have such strong feelings against police, but it's important to recognize that the reason that many cops, especially good cops can be on edge or suspicious is because systemic racism and the nature of their jobs results in their fear of POC. Systemic racism breeds fear, and fear breeds more personal racist beliefs. It's a self eating snake. There's a reason many black cops "sell out" and support white cops.

Then you have the fact that neighborhoods of POC are less likely to expierence good policing, and you can see why so many people see no value in police, when they rarely if ever have police that are there to protect and serve them, and only see them overly protecting and serving other people, outside their socioeconomic circles.

People like to say the system is rotten, but if that were true you'd have police problems regardless of race. It's definitely sick and needs serious reform. Pretending it doesn't is ignoring the issues, and pretending the system is rotten to the core is to ignore the effective services it provides. hat protect and serve.

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Your post gets so many things wrong. One, black and brown neighborhoods are empirically OVER policed. claiming that they aren’t is false.

Two, racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and police officers are not dainty pure souls who are corrupted by their profession.

Three, there are policing problems regardless of race. Poor white people hate the cops too, because they treat them marginally as worse as they do everyone else.

Can you even speak to the history of American policing, how it started as means to catch slaves, and how over the course of the 20th century black people have been used as the bogeyman that led to the militarization of the institution?

Your whole post is just one big drivel that is basically “don’t be mean to cops you negroes really don’t understand the whole picture”

 

[FranktheRabbit]

There are plenty of good cops who do heroic things.

But what we need is for those good cops to hold the bad ones accountable. Its as simple as that. Till then, they don't get a slide

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I think the issue is more with the police unions. I’m actually a pretty big suporter of the police, but it’s pretty discouraging (and sometimes disgusting) how unions will bend over backwards to protect criminal cops. That’s the sort of thing that erodes community trust, and goes against the spirit of what law enforcement is supposed to stand for.

All that being said, I think there are way more good cops than bad ones, and I don’t think they get enough credit for all the good work they do (at least in the mental health community).

 

[Deleted member 47843]

I work with cops pretty regularly. Most are just completely average people just doing it as a job and trying to do good work and get promoted, better shifts etc. Some are exceptional and go the extra mile to try and make a difference. A tiny percentage are just bad or went bad over time and abuse their power, get involved in corruption.

The other two categories of cops hate those people as they know they make them all look bad as that’s what gets the most attention. Too many fail to speak up though due to the strong code of silence in policing and that’s one of the biggest things that needs to change.

 

[Deepwater]

I work with cops pretty regularly. Most are just completely average people just doing it as a job and trying to do good work and get promoted, better shifts etc. Some are exceptional and go the extra mile to try and make a difference. A tiny percentage are just bad or went bad over time and abuse their power, get involved in corruption.

The other two categories of cops hate those people as they know they make them all look bad as that’s what gets the most attention. Too many fail to speak up though due to the strong code of silence in policing and that’s one of the biggest things that needs to change.

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It doesn’t sound like they’re all good if they’re on that stop snitching shit.

Black and brown people certainly don’t get that luxury

 

[HomokHarcos]

Cops are mostly nice to me, unless I wear a hoodie than I get viewed with more suspicion (and I'm white).

 

[ISOM]

Out there is some far right-ist board, this very same argument is being used, but with brown or black people in place of cops.

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What does that have to do with anything? Cops hold a lot more power than random brown or black people. They are supposed to be held to a higher standard but apparently that is too much to ask.

 

[TaySan]

There are some "good cops" but the whole system is designed to encourage bad behavior.