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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,139
TOKYO — Last month, as Americans tuned in to the final episode of "Game of Thrones," Japan was indulging in its own television fantasy world.

In this one, a woman dares to leave work at 6 p.m. sharp.

The determination of Yui Higashiyama, a 30-something project manager who wants nothing more than to get out of the office and into her favorite bar for happy hour, rocks the fictional web design firm where she works.

A conniving supervisor and overachieving co-workers try to foil her plans. When her team faces a seemingly impossible deadline in Episode 9, she puts aside her steely commitment to work-life balance, dramatically declaring, "I will work overtime!"

Ms. Higashiyama is the protagonist of "I Will Not Work Overtime, Period!" — a modest television hit in Japan that has struck a chord in a country with a dangerously intense, at times deadly, national work ethic....

In addition to cultural attitudes about the value of hard work, she said, some employers reduce costs by relying on overtime, and employees work the longer hours for the extra pay and to please the boss — promotions often depend more on time spent at a desk than actual productivity.

The Japanese government has taken measures to reduce long hours and change cultural norms around work.


Japanese work culture is so so insane lol. Read the rest of the article for more craziness, including workers feeling guilty for taking breaks.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
At my job we have someone in the Japan office that always schedules after hours calls for us to attend (after hours for us). She is always perplexed that we can't accept them due to family commitments.
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,956
At my job we have someone in the Japan office that always schedules after hours calls for us to attend (after hours for us). She is always perplexed that we can't accept them due to family commitments.

Does these calls involve your office directly or is she just including you like so many useless office meetings? Japan is amazingly inefficient with workflow due to their culture hangups.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
Does these calls involve your office directly or is she just including you like so many useless office meetings? Japan is amazingly inefficient with workflow due to their culture hangups.

She wants to review the support tickets that are open for her team and ask if there are any new updates. Mind you we update these tickets in Jira everyday.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,139
Has remote work, flexible schedules, and so on affected Japan at all?
I'm out by 5 at the latest. Ain't shit happening after 5 that is productive at my office.
Same here, but ya know, the office optics be a bitch lol.

Most knowledge workers are not putting in more than 4 hours of real work per day anyway.

She wants to review the support tickets that are open for her team and ask if there are any new updates. Mind you we update these tickets in Jira everyday.

See, I don't get this lol. Stuff like this should make it easier because of tech, but it seems she is just doing things the old way because that's how it "supposed to be". Not very efficient.
 

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
This type of approach is not acceptable. No wonder the quality of life in Japan can sometimes be so low.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
America isn't so hot in this regard either, although we think we are.

We are not.

In my experience, it's a very different thing, though. In America, the expectation is to get things done even if that means working overtime. In Japan, the expectation is to, first and foremost, be present out of some kind of sense of solidarity.

Obviously there are exceptions and each individual company will handle things differently, but if I were to put it very broadly, that's how I'd describe both.
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
8,460
In my experience, it's a very different thing, though. In America, the expectation is to get things done even if that means working overtime. In Japan, the expectation is to, first and foremost, be present out of some kind of sense of solidarity.

Obviously there are exceptions and each individual company will handle things differently, but if I were to put it very broadly, that's how I'd describe both.

Thats how I read it.

So its more stress with less hours verse more wasted hours and time away from home with a still considerable amount of stress and pressure.

Neither is super but it is different I agree. Clearly it isn't awesome for American's health as a whole but thats another discussion.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Thats how I read it.

So its more stress with less hours verse more wasted hours and time away from home with a still considerable amount of stress and pressure.

Neither is super but it is different I agree. Clearly it isn't awesome for American's health as a whole but thats another discussion.

Yep. I vastly prefer the American style. Yeah, things get busy and I may have stretches where I'm working a lot, but at least I'm never going to get the stink eye for leaving early or taking time off when things are not crazy.

Obviously this is highly dependent on each individual workplace, but I feel like, culturally, it's a lot easier for Americans to take time off or pop out for a bit attend to various errands during the workday than it is in most Japanese companies.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,461
San Francisco
Yeah, been catching episodes here an there as they pop up on TV. Pretty popular here and it makes sense why.

I'm temp working in Tokyo and the number of people doing constant 12 hour days is insane. As an American I feel guilty that I leave generally at 6 when the rest of the workers here get off at 930. Came into the office on a weekend to get better wifi and saw people working as well.

People like my father in law have lived that life for 50 years... it's insane.

This isn't even talking about black companies.

From what I've seen of the show it's ok. Not a big fan of the love interest guy. Some of the other shenanigans are pretty ok. Programmer coffee dude is alright.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,451
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Sadly even America isn't great in this regard either. We have nonexistent vacation time here and I would get dirty looks if I called off from work. :/
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
8,460
Yep. I vastly prefer the American style. Yeah, things get busy and I may have stretches where I'm working a lot, but at least I'm never going to get the stink eye for leaving early or taking time off when things are not crazy.

Obviously this is highly dependent on each individual workplace, but I feel like, culturally, it's a lot easier for Americans to take time off or pop out for a bit attend to various errands during the workday than it is in most Japanese companies.

Freedom to take off and get time off and be able to take vacation is super YMMV in america too. I've worked around a bit and places can be vastly different. Compared to Europe we suck. I have some personal connections to Japan, as my GF sister is married to a Japanese national, and he went to work the day before his wedding! I'm not sure what was so important, but off he went. Thats toxic.

So is checking work email on vacation, middle of the night and at all hours and american's not taking vacations and a ton of us having to work two jobs.

Sadly even America isn't great in this regard either. We have nonexistent vacation time here and I would get dirty looks if I called off from work. :/

That sucks. I've worked at places like that. Hopefully that improves for you as that galled me to no end when I worked at places like that.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,461
San Francisco
Yeah, been catching episodes here an there as they pop up on TV. Pretty popular here and it makes sense why.

I'm temp working in Tokyo and the number of people doing constant 12 hour days is insane. As an American I feel guilty that I leave generally at 6 when the rest of the workers here get off at 930. Came into the office on a weekend to get better wifi and saw people working as well.

People like my father in law have lived that life for 50 years... it's insane.

This isn't even talking about black companies.

From what I've seen of the show it's ok. Not a big fan of the love interest guy. Some of the other shenanigans are pretty ok. Programmer coffee dude is alright.

Whoops... quote instead of edit......
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,059
NZ
I've been watching more J dramas this year and I was surprised just how often characters in these shows work overtime or even sleep at the office as if it's normal.
 

Cats

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
Japanese work culture is so so insane lol. Read the rest of the article for more craziness, including workers feeling guilty for taking breaks.
To be fair while it's overall more of an epidemic there, I feel like the USA has this too? Like I sometimes have to skip lunch and all my breaks or I feel very guilty because a coworker will come back from time off with lots of work to do and stress everyone out. Or just feeling guilty taking breaks in general in normal days. And PTO? Forget about it. Put in for a day off and you're silently shame for being lazy and making others pick up your slack (even though I say "plz don't touch my stuff I'll do it when I get back"). If you're sick HR doesn't need a note for 1 day but you better explain yourself to your co-workers because they are pissed add think you're lazy. The gossip and criticism of those that take days off is sick, and I'm still they do it behind my back about me too.

Every job I've had had been like this.
 

BigWinnie1

Banned
Feb 19, 2018
2,757
The fuck do you deliver?

Dude UPS are union and when you got more than 5 years on you make the bucks man. x3 for overtime hours and holiday time. I had one december where I brought home 11 grand between overtime and peak hour pay. You make bank and get reasonably fit, Also you get to know the locals at the same time with your route, its a great job for an introvert that is trying to get out and get more confidence.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,855
It happens because workers allow it to happen. They don't unionize, they don't take advantage of the (admittedly insufficient) laws in their favor and they don't know how to stand up for themselves.

I teach for three hours a day, and fairly often work a couple hours a day remotely on top of that, and I'm earning more than the average Japanese worker putting in 12 hour shifts. Nobody needs to choose that life.
 

Ex Lion Tamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,191
Dude UPS are union and when you got more than 5 years on you make the bucks man. x3 for overtime hours and holiday time. I had one december where I brought home 11 grand between overtime and peak hour pay. You make bank and get reasonably fit, Also you get to know the locals at the same time with your route, its a great job for an introvert that is trying to get out and get more confidence.

Fuck this sounds nice.
 

kazamatsuri

Behind the Scenes at Epic
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
25
Tokyo
On my first day, here at the PlayStation office in Tokyo, I was told my hours were 9:30-6:15. At 6:15 my boss came over and asked me if I had anything else that I needed to do that day. I said no so he told me to go ahead and leave. I was like, "...is this a test??" and so I didn't shutdown my computer and kinda sat around for a little bit more. About 10 minutes later he walked by my desk and was like "Why are you still here?" I finally said, "Well, everyone else is still here and working, so..." He just said "Don't worry about them. If your work is done, it doesn't make any sense to stay. Don't you have anything you want to do after work?" I got the hell out and every day since, if I didn't have anything I needed to do, I got the hell out of Dodge at 6:15.

For SURE some of my Japanese co-workers didn't like the fact that I jetted earlier than everyone else and I know some of them talked shit about me. I just never cared. If they really wanted to leave early, they'd get their shit done or, probably more accurately, they'd grow some backbone and just refuse to work pointless overtime.

Granted, PlayStation is a very Westernized company here in Japan, so it's probably been much easier for me here than for others at other companies.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
I have seen some of them literally sleeping while standing at the same time in train and train station early in morning. Some of them have rather red drunken face, I guess from drinking till way past midnight.
 

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,896
give me hanzawa naoki season 2 pls japan ; ;
it's been so damn long

edit: HOLY SHIT IT'S HAPPENING APRIL 2020
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
 

Kinketsu

Member
Nov 17, 2017
1,976
I feel it is starting to change here a little in more recent years compared to ten years ago. More of the people in similar positions to me, age wise and with a good few years under their belts, permanent guaranteed contracts, families etc, get out when they can. I mean, I still work six days a week, and usually 10 and a half / 11 hours a day, but I could say fuck it and walk out at 5 if I wanted. i often do and I dont think anyone cares except the small very sad, bitter, single old no hopers who essentially sleep here simply because theyhave nothing else going on and wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they went home.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,139
The title of the show vs the episode 9 summary...
Seriously wtf in episode 9, so this was a what. Pressure from outside sources kind of thing. Or the entire intention in the first place was, it's ok to feel this way, as long as you eventually capitulate to the outmoded work environment? Because it's "comradery for the company" kind of thing. That's the shit at Best Buy when I worked there that had me working until 2am and coming back in at 7am. Which left around 4 hours of sleep for me on those nights when factoring in commute assuming I was asleep the moment I hit the pillow.
 

Deleted member 46958

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
2,574
On my first day, here at the PlayStation office in Tokyo, I was told my hours were 9:30-6:15. At 6:15 my boss came over and asked me if I had anything else that I needed to do that day. I said no so he told me to go ahead and leave. I was like, "...is this a test??" and so I didn't shutdown my computer and kinda sat around for a little bit more. About 10 minutes later he walked by my desk and was like "Why are you still here?" I finally said, "Well, everyone else is still here and working, so..." He just said "Don't worry about them. If your work is done, it doesn't make any sense to stay. Don't you have anything you want to do after work?" I got the hell out and every day since, if I didn't have anything I needed to do, I got the hell out of Dodge at 6:15.

For SURE some of my Japanese co-workers didn't like the fact that I jetted earlier than everyone else and I know some of them talked shit about me. I just never cared. If they really wanted to leave early, they'd get their shit done or, probably more accurately, they'd grow some backbone and just refuse to work pointless overtime.

Granted, PlayStation is a very Westernized company here in Japan, so it's probably been much easier for me here than for others at other companies.

Really interesting as an outsider reading this.
 

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,015
If they really wanted to leave early, they'd get their shit done or, probably more accurately, they'd grow some backbone and just refuse to work pointless overtime.
I'm going to assume that you're not Japanese based on what you said. Is it possible that they're held to a different standard than a foreigner? Maybe that's why they don't leave on time. I don't think it has anything to do with backbone of not getting done in time. Like if it's ingrained into their culture, maybe it's something that you just don't get. So I wouldn't be overly critical of them.

Idk. I need to check out this show.
 

kazamatsuri

Behind the Scenes at Epic
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
25
Tokyo
I'm going to assume that you're not Japanese based on what you said. Is it possible that they're held to a different standard than a foreigner? Maybe that's why they don't leave on time. I don't think it has anything to do with backbone of not getting done in time. Like if it's ingrained into their culture, maybe it's something that you just don't get. So I wouldn't be overly critical of them.

Idk. I need to check out this show.
I am definitely held to a different standard as a foreigner. So it definitely makes it easier for me to both leave on time as well as be critical of those who don't. I totally recognize that. But there are a few renegade Japanese employees who are like me, who get their shit done and leave on time, and the same people are equally critical of them as well. (I would also note that those critics are the least important contributors in the department, but what do I know?) It's definitely something ingrained in the culture, but culture isn't an excuse for something that is obviously a negative.
 

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,015
I am definitely held to a different standard as a foreigner. So it definitely makes it easier for me to both leave on time as well as be critical of those who don't. I totally recognize that. But there are a few renegade Japanese employees who are like me, who get their shit done and leave on time, and the same people are equally critical of them as well. (I would also note that those critics are the least important contributors in the department, but what do I know?) It's definitely something ingrained in the culture, but culture isn't an excuse for something that is obviously a negative.
Okay. Thanks for elaborating.