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In The Little Mermaid, Ursula wasn't evil at all. The contract was legal and fair...

What do you think?

  • Ariel was dumb. Ursula did nothing wrong.

    Votes: 147 19.3%

  • Ursula is pure evil. The contract wasn't legal.

    Votes: 186 24.5%

  • Ursula is pure evil, but the contract is legal.

    Votes: 427 56.2%
  • Total voters
    760
Squishy3

Squishy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
811
King Triton's in the wrong for not treating Ariel like an equal and rationally explaining his viewpoint, leading to Ursula taking advantage of Ariel. (Also you'd think your dad would've told you about the evil sea witch living around the corner that's not to be trusted. Even Simba was told by Mufasa not to go to the elephant graveyard.)
 
Eumi

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
Legality equalling morality is a lie perpetuated by capitalism.

Wake up sheeple. Err, sheep-ish? Feeple? Whatever.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Subpar Scrub said:
Yes they can, though if it's not for a necessity then they can repudiate them pretty easily. Try not to spread misinformation.




That's not how this works. What you've shown above is evidence that the contract CAN be enforced. Submission 1 of that post means Ariel could repudiate at any time, so she'd probably be fine, but the rest are mere arguments, not established law.
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It seems pretty explicitly established that Triton is the monarch and it's very well established that sovereigns cannot be bound by contracts since no court with jurisdiction can be found. Ursula would simply have to wait for Triton to become signatory to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and then utilize investor-state dispute settlement to be made whole after the dispossession.
 

Deleted member 25600

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This seems like a thread an Ancap or US libertarian would create.

Are you an Ancap or US libertarian, OP?
 
Subpar Scrub

Subpar Scrub

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Oct 25, 2017
3,576
pigeon said:
It seems pretty explicitly established that Triton is the monarch and it's very well established that sovereigns cannot be bound by contracts since no court with jurisdiction can be found. Ursula would simply have to wait for Triton to become signatory to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and then utilize investor-state dispute settlement to be made whole after the dispossession.
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I can't remember the whole movie but I thought Ursula's home was still in Atlantica. So wouldn't international arbitration and other dispute resolution methods regarding investor-states not be applicable? I have only done a very broad and rough course on globalised law on account of still being partially through my first year, so I legit don't know if there's something you could do through investor state dispute resolution.
 
skeezx

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,101
ariel was a hoarder who hung out with a crab and prince eric was probably coked out half the time. i don't understand how Ursula was in the wrong
 
Schreckstoff

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,606
you can't put illegal things into a contract and say that they are legal as a result, Ursula making physical alterations to Ariel w/o Triton's consent is illegal in and of itself.
Also even "legal" contracts can be voided for various reasons, i.e. a signee wasn't in a right state of mind as is clearly the case with Ariel.
 
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Frodo

Frodo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,338
She was a little bit evil, despite being completely honest about everything. Ariel is just plain dumb though.

With that being said, if Ursula was a man we would just see her as the average ambitious business man.
 
Jimnymebob

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,566
I mean, the contract was legal on account of it being a contract, but Ursula broke the terms like 4 times before moving onto attempted murder lol.

She actively stopped Ariel from kissing Eric, then she turned to a human to try and seduce Eric to stop him from kissing Ariel, then she kidnaps Ariel and blackmails Triton into giving up the trident, then she tries to kill Eric, and finally she turns into a big monster and tries to just rampage through the sea before being killed.
 
Tricky I Shadow

Tricky I Shadow

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,450
Australia
Shoe said:
Have you read the damn thing? What is this, Cthulhu speak?

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Ichthyosaurus

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Eumi said:
Legality equalling morality is a lie perpetuated by capitalism.

Wake up sheeple. Err, sheep-ish? Feeple? Whatever.
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Pretty sure that sort of thinking predates capitalism since humanity started drafting up laws for itself, and it likely crosses over into religion, as well. You need to stop thinking every stupid thing humanity has done started and ends with capitalism.
 
Rhaya

Rhaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
888
Ariel made a deal with the devil willingly.
It was a fair deal in all the right ways.
But it was still a deal with the devil and shefoolishly believed the devil not to attempt to backstab her.
 
Jindrax

Jindrax

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Oct 28, 2017
1,454
FernandoRocker said:
The Contract does not contain a duty to act in good faith.

Ariel is dealing with a renown sea-witch. She cannot expect a sea-witch to act in good faith. Ursula, in her wiliness, might have said "Oh, of course!" when asked whether she would act in good faith, but Ariel certainly would not have said so.
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Depends under which law the contract was concluded. Most legal systems force good faith on all contracts.
 
Eumi

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
Ichthyosaurus said:
Pretty sure that sort of thinking predates capitalism since humanity started drafting up laws for itself, and it likely crosses over into religion, as well. You need to stop thinking every stupid thing humanity has done started and ends with capitalism.
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I'm sorry my joke about Disney's The Little Mermaid bothered you. I'll make sure that in the future, all jokes about the ignorance of Flounder and his ilk drilled in to them from birth by a system designed to exploit them meet a higher standard of factual quality.
 
weekev

weekev

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Oct 25, 2017
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FernandoRocker said:
The Contract does not contain a duty to act in good faith.

Ariel is dealing with a renown sea-witch. She cannot expect a sea-witch to act in good faith. Ursula, in her wiliness, might have said "Oh, of course!" when asked whether she would act in good faith, but Ariel certainly would not have said so.
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this contradicts the title of your OT which says Ursula isnt evil at all. Not acting in good faith is the evil part. This is a weird OP and seems to be reaching quite massively. Ursula is evil, Ariel is naive.
 
Lobster Roll

Lobster Roll

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Sep 24, 2019
34,268
Is this just a meme that I missed out on? Some folks at a party were loudly discussing this exact topic over the weekend and were trying to drag everybody else there into the debate and we didn't get it.
 
OP
OP
FernandoRocker

FernandoRocker

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,987
México
Lobster Roll said:
Is this just a meme that I missed out on? Some folks at a party were loudly discussing this exact topic over the weekend and were trying to drag everybody else there into the debate and we didn't get it.
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Not really, no. But my little daughter has been watching The Little Mermaid repeatedly for the last couple of weeks, and I have quite memorised the film now.

Lately, I have been thinking that the witch wasn't that bad.
 
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PMS341

PMS341

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Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Is this a stealth Taylor Swift thread
 

Deleted member 1086

User requested account closure
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The whole "minors can't sign contracts" attitude in this thread is sure a lot different than that Taylor Swift thread a couple weeks ago.

omg poster above me was on the same track, spooky
 
ZealousD

ZealousD

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Oct 25, 2017
2,303
FernandoRocker said:
Not really, no. But my little daughter has been watching The Little Mermaid repeatedly for the last couple of weeks, and I have quite memorised the film now.

Lately, I have been thinking that the witch wasn't that bad.
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So you know that she manipulated a naive young girl into signing a contract with awful terms for the express purpose of taking over the world sea. You know she acted in bad faith by interfering with that girl's ability to get the thing she wanted from the contract. You know she had a whole collection of merpeople that she had turned into polyps because they couldn't "pay" for her services, a kind of extrajudicial punishment or even slavery.

And your takeaway is that she "wasn't that bad".
 
bionic77

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
Can't believe there is a team Ursala.

Ursala was taking advantage of a stupid horny teenager to subjugate and murder the king of the ocean (who was an ass, but still the rightful king).

OP is either a distant relative to Ursala with some sea monster in him or is a pimp.
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

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Oct 25, 2017
10,588
At the time the story was written/set, 16 wasn't a minor.

But since Ariel is literate enough to write her own name, but doesn't do that using sea water on a rowboat oar when Eric asks her what her name is, she is too stupid to run her own life. Like most people.

Also the story is irrelevant, only the music matters. Mmmm.
 
thefro

thefro

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Oct 25, 2017
5,996
Disney clearly changed the character to be explicitly evil as compared to the original story.
 
Triggerhappytel

Triggerhappytel

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Oct 27, 2017
15,000
I think the contract was fair, except when she bewitched the dude to get him to marry her instead of Ariel. That was fucken cheatin'!
 
ElectricKaibutsu

ElectricKaibutsu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,462
Subpar Scrub said:
I can't remember the whole movie but I thought Ursula's home was still in Atlantica. So wouldn't international arbitration and other dispute resolution methods regarding investor-states not be applicable? I have only done a very broad and rough course on globalised law on account of still being partially through my first year, so I legit don't know if there's something you could do through investor state dispute resolution.
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Want she banished? That makes it seem she didn't live in the same country.
 
Luminish

Luminish

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Oct 25, 2017
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bionic77 said:
Can't believe there is a team Ursala.

Ursala was taking advantage of a stupid horny teenager to subjugate and murder the king of the ocean (who was an ass, but still the rightful king).

OP is either a distant relative to Ursala with some sea monster in him or is a pimp.
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They're just anarcho-capitalists who think the minimum wage is the biggest sin of society because it outlaws the signing of contracts between two "willing" participants. They don't have the heart or brain to see cruel one sided contracts signed out of pressure and manipulation as bad.
 
Dr. Mario

Dr. Mario

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Oct 27, 2017
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I think the movie made clear that the contract was legally binding to the point even King Triton felt that he had to obey the legality of the clearly evil contract. So I think age and bad faith considerations don't come in play when it comes to the Under the Sea kingdom laws.

What remains up for debate though is whether the contract allowed for Ursula to actually use Ariels voice as she was trying to win over Erik's heart. Usually when you pawn off your jewelry for money, the pawn shop owner doesn't get to wear the jewelry to cocktail parties before the repayment contract ends. This may have constituted an unlawful breach of contract. But we wouldn't be able to tell without reading the Cthulu language
 
Aaron

Aaron

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Oct 25, 2017
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Nah Ursula was in the wrong.

Ariel was a minor, the "do it in three days or I get your soul" stipulation was too punitive, and Ursula meddled with Ariel and Eric's romance on multiple occasions.

She doesn't have a fin to stand on.
 
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