I’m disagreeing with the hot takes in this thread formed without watching the video that basically call him a piece of shit that should go away. I’m not agreeing with his take on Carano. Is that such an unreasonable take on my part?
Indiewire: Mandalorian actor Bill Burr defends Gina Carano, complains about cancel culture
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
It seems pretty straightforward to me.
If someone says something ignorant and hateful, and are called out on it, and apologizes, and tries to be better, they don't get "cancelled" because that's pretty normal human behaviour. Nobody is perfect but we can at least strive to be better.
If someone repeatedly, in all kinds of circumstances, say plenty of things ignorant and hateful, and are called out on it, and double down, give false apologies or try to play the victim card, and then are told privately by their employer or business partner to stop doing that, and then keep doing that, and said employer or business partner finally severs all ties with them, and then they double down even more jumping further into the same shitty arguments that got them in trouble to begin with, then that's just proof that you were an asshole all along and good riddance.
If someone says something ignorant and hateful, and are called out on it, and apologizes, and tries to be better, they don't get "cancelled" because that's pretty normal human behaviour. Nobody is perfect but we can at least strive to be better.
If someone repeatedly, in all kinds of circumstances, say plenty of things ignorant and hateful, and are called out on it, and double down, give false apologies or try to play the victim card, and then are told privately by their employer or business partner to stop doing that, and then keep doing that, and said employer or business partner finally severs all ties with them, and then they double down even more jumping further into the same shitty arguments that got them in trouble to begin with, then that's just proof that you were an asshole all along and good riddance.
Nia to the rescue lmao
Bill has been rallying against cancel culture for the longest time. In a lot of his podcasts he advocates for teaching/conversation rather than outright cancelling (which I agree with depending on the severity of the issue) so this isn’t a very surprising opinion of his.
Sounds like he doesn’t know what all went down.
edit: wow OP you’re mad sus for this.
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The video changes nothing. Anyone who watched the video kept the same opinion because he and the hosts pretend this is about something dumb she said long ago and that she has grown, matured, etc.. It’s not the case. They purposefully talk specifically about her, then generalize about a conspiracy against everyone who has ever said something dumb.
It’s misleading to say everyone here has a bad opinion when they didn’t watch the video.
The video changes nothing for you. Others see a clear difference between the actual video and the article about the video. It’s perfectly fine IMO to watch the video and come out thinking Burr is a POS. I don’t agree with that conclusion, but fine — it’s an informed opinion. To read the article about the video and forming a hard overall opinion about the people in the video, whether positive or negative, is wrong.
Plus who wants to just form their opinion by way of one article trying to generate clicks?? That’s just dumb.
This isn't the first time he's had an awful take so I'm not going to fight anyone who calls him a piece of shit.
But I don't know why you keep insisting that people should watch the video because it changes literally nothing about his take.
Just utter nonsense
I’m not pretending not to understand. I’m responding to what people are saying in the thread. Cool cool.
Two reasons, one specific and one general:
1. Specifically in this case, while it may not seem different to some (like you, for example), it does seem different to others (like me, for example). If I see that viewing the thing itself changes my perspective on it, then why would I not say that people should watch it before forming an opinion?
2. Generally, it’s important to go beyond articles *about* things and look at the thing itself before forming an opinion. Surely you’d agree that this is generally true, no?
Yeah, I mean if people are really interested to see it, there's nothing stopping them. But what I'm saying is that it doesn't change his opinion, it doesn't change the information included in the article. The information is correct/accurate. It's a more than fair representation of what was said in the video, because it is literally, quote for quote what he said in the video.
So there's no actual point in insisting that people watch it because it's virtually the same thing that was originally reported..
Normally, yeah I would encourage people to watch a video in an instance that's controversial but this is literally just reporting what happened. There's no way to misinterpret what was said or his intent. He defended her and whined about cancel culture, full stop.
We may not be able come to agreement here. I disagree that the article is a good replacement for the thing itself, and if people can come to different conclusions and levels of negativity about a thing depending on whether they read the article versus watching the thing itself, then we should encourage people to watch the thing itself. I think you would do the same thing in my shoes. We just disagree on whether the article is a fair distillation of what happened vs a framing to produce clicks and ad revenue.
Can you point to the portions of the article that were incorrect about what he said, or how his position was misrepresented?
There's more ass being shown in this thread than the Folsom Street Fair
Just a reminder that Gina posted this shit just a few months ago:
This isn't a person I would defend or advocate for at any level.
Unless we want to pretend this isn't anti-Semitic as hell.
This isn't a person I would defend or advocate for at any level.
Unless we want to pretend this isn't anti-Semitic as hell.
So a rich white celebrity was nice to their rich white celebrity coworker....shocking..
But we NEED to trip over ourselves to give him (yet another) pass don’t you see?
I’m sure you would agree that each quote and statement in the article can be literally correct without the article as a whole being a good representation, namely because writers have to choose what to include, what to omit, and how to put the pieces together. In this case, the article doesn’t go into what burr knows or doesn’t know about what she said, it doesn’t convey, or can’t convey, the seeming discomfort that he had with the topic in general. It doesn’t mention that he tried to change the subject. It doesn’t mention what he was reacting to or responding to in each instance, so it all seems like it’s about the cariño thing. The basic thrust of the article is to convey that burr supports her when the more complete story seems like he is rather uninformed about her from what he said on the show, basically reacting to that comparison tweet. All of these things may not make a difference to you, but it certainly changes my level of discomfort with Burr that podcast.
Bill Burr's audio snippets from his podcasts have been used by alt-right channels in order to spread their ideas in Youtube and this has happen for quite some time now and surely before the Mandalorian was even conceived.
There is definitely a trend with him in particular, regardless on his opinion about Carano, which still aligns with his way of thinking and his hate for the "SJW" culture.
None of these things actually matter in context with what he said about cancel culture. When they were talking about being cancelled, it was about the Carano situation. What does this even mean.. "his level of discomfort"? He said people are waiting in the weeds to cancel you, that people are basically out to get you, and this was all in relation to her being fired for the comparison tweet. If he doesn't know more than that, I'm sorry, but that's on him. He's a big boy and if he easily could have just said "I don't know a whole lot about this" or "I'm not going to get into that". He chose to go on a rant about cancel culture.
It's time we stop treating this guy like he's not a grown fucking adult. These defenses are just pathetic, at this point.
Again, the context you laid out above is irrelevant to the information presented in the article. It changes nothing about his position or what he said.
The lamest most pathetic part of this thread are the people who come in with hot takes lumping era as a monolith and they have a 10k post history like their ass isn't part of "era".
Again, you are dismissing so much and oversimplifying things so much and viewing things in such a black-and-white way, and at this point it feels like I’m talking to someone speaking a different language or coming at this from so different a point of view, that I’m not sure we are going to get anywhere. I’m sure we both feel like we are making cogent, persuasive arguments, but everything I say doesn’t come through on your end, and everything that you’re saying isn’t coming through to me.
This is really not complicated dude. The article's information is accurate and the video changes nothing about his position. It's a really weird hill to die on.
It’s weird To say that I’m dying on a hill when we are both replying and I have multiple times tried to convey that we aren’t getting anywhere and that we are likely not going to be able to convince each other. I disagree with you, you disagree with me, can we leave it at that?
Man, many of the people you quoted I can picture their avatar in my head as posters that in the past have had an axe to grind against the more progressive or inclusive leanings on this board. Like at some point I just kind of wonder what’s here on Era for posters like this.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Billy Boy doesn’t research too often, he can barely read out loud.
Awwwww, why weren’t people more understanding toward the sweet bigot?
...coming from the straight white guy.
...coming from the straight white guy.
This is a pretty funny take considering how much the dude has blown up in the past seven or so years.
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory Generalization
Plenty of room for them on gaming side. People taking Bills side here are perfectly okay with still supporting Rowling’s game.
I'm glad you said this and aren't the only one saying this, 'cause I saw the thread completely swing over the last couple pages and I decided to give the clip a watch (including a couple minutes before and after to make sure - not the whole thing because fuck that) and I was confused as to what I was missing.
Like, okay, he doesn't actually straight-up bat for Gina's tweets and instead only vaguely compliments her work and whines about cancel culture. And most of the more direct shit is coming from the other guys on the podcast. So sure, the Indiewire article is technically wrong. Technically. That's what we're swinging opinions on: technicalities.
At the end of the day he's still on a chud podcast with a chud fanbase whining about all the "dangers" of cancel culture and political correctness and whatnot. I'll give him the one point of credit in that he actually tried to keep as mum as possible while the other two Stooges tried to gripe more directly about Star Wars, because he knows if he's too direct he's killing a Disney gig that he's on record actually enjoying. YMMV on if that's good enough to keep his job. Beyond that? What is exactly different contextually? It's not like Burr's edgelord tendencies are unknown or anything.
So if I continued to defend my perspective, it would have been a weird hill to die on, but since it became clear that we weren’t hearing each other and I opted out, I was reduced to sticking my head in the sand? Can’t win them all I guess.To be clear (since you quoted me here), it's a weird hill to die on because your argument is entirely flimsy, and it's plainly obvious he's in the wrong here, not only about cancel culture but about it pertaining to Carano. The examples you provided (none which actually come from the article itself, I'd add), don't change the context at all. It doesn't matter if he was "uncomfortable", or if he didn't bring it up himself. Once he started, he was able to go on a mini rant about cancel culture. He did that all on his own and frankly giving him the outs you have is baffling.
It's exhausting watching people treat this guy like a fucking child. Seen it all in these threads.. "but his wife will straighten him out! he's a comedian! he's doing a bit"
Just embarrassing
even if the context makes it better (it doesn’t), when placed in the larger context of Bills work it looks consistent with who he’s always been.
THAT scene in the second season is basically 5 minutes that encapsulated what Finn's arc should had been in THREE MOVIES.
Ugh - my argument isn’t that he is correct in what he saying re: Carano. My argument is that if a person watches the video rather than simply reading the article, they may very well come away with a different perspective on how egregious or outrage-worthy this is (as I did). If you are so certain that watching the video changes nothing, then there shouldn’t be any concern with encouraging people to watch the actual video. And at this point I’m really way too far into “someone is wrong on the Internet” territory, so feel free to have the last word. Have a good day (I don’t mean that in a snarky way - I’ve appreciated you taking the time to reply even if it felt frustrating).
That's so fucking vile.Just a reminder that Gina posted this shit just a few months ago:
This isn't a person I would defend or advocate for at any level.
Unless we want to pretend this isn't anti-Semitic as hell.
The last thing I'll say here is that I don't understand the point of the distinction you're making. The outrage is in his argument/rhetoric, not the presentation. I don't think anyone actually cares how he is saying it. So, yeah, anyone, feel free to watch the video, but my point is that it's really a waste of time because the article has the information correct; it's merely transcribing what he says in the video and there's no room for misinterpretation (what is being stated is not at all complex or nuanced) and it doesn't contain any meaningful subtleties.
You're looking at this the wrong way. You're trying to quantify outrage as if it will change to a different level based on tone and body language, when it simply does not, because the outrage stems from what is being said, not how it's presented.
I have never thought that Burr was particularly funny
Even when I listened to Opie and Anthony as a teenager...he always came across as a pretentious asshole who takes himself too seriously
Also worth mentioning that he was a big conspiracy theory guy back then, so it's not really surprising that he would be sympathetic toward someone who promotes that stuff
Even when I listened to Opie and Anthony as a teenager...he always came across as a pretentious asshole who takes himself too seriously
Also worth mentioning that he was a big conspiracy theory guy back then, so it's not really surprising that he would be sympathetic toward someone who promotes that stuff
The headline doesn't even say that, is the OP that uses the "defend" qualifier lol
I don't find comedians complaining about shit funny though, much less those complaining about cancel culture, political correctness etc.... it's just whinny, not funny
For what is worth it did change my perspective, and I couldn't finish his Netflix special as I couldn't finish the last Chappelle, Hart (although I don't think I've ever finished a Hart one), and countless others that complain over and over about the same stuff and of which I can't even recall, or don't want to promote, their names
Yeah, me either! Not a fan of Burr’s comedy or general shitty, contrarian attitude.
Sometimes Era feels like a sincere but struggling attempt to teach cis-het white dudes why racism/sexism/bigotry isn't okay.
And boy will they find any and all justifications to not learn.
"He isn't actually defending her"
"His comedy is SuPpOsED to offend"
"You'll change your perspective if you actually see the video"
.
.
"It's okay to sexualize <character> cause even though she looks 12 she's actually a 7000 year old dragon"
I'm not angry. Just sad and resigned.
And boy will they find any and all justifications to not learn.
"He isn't actually defending her"
"His comedy is SuPpOsED to offend"
"You'll change your perspective if you actually see the video"
.
.
"It's okay to sexualize <character> cause even though she looks 12 she's actually a 7000 year old dragon"
I'm not angry. Just sad and resigned.
Seriously...what the hell is wrong with some of you. And peeps are wondering how the hell Trump got 50% of the votes.
Also "his wife will teach him!" and the "if you study his body language, he actually didn't want to say it" galaxy brain take
The mental gymnastics in this thread have been really something to witness, I expected a strong response in favor of him, but the Bill Burr Defense Force went all out this time
Spoilers
This mediocre guy is not worth defending
I listened to the audio and it really changes nothing so I don't understand why some are saying it does. All that aside I have always thought Burr has overrated. He's just brash and that is enough for some people. The constant whining about cancel culture is really low effort for someone who fancy's himself as a wise guy with savvy takes.
I feel like the only time I ever hear the term 'cancel culture' is when it gets thrown out after a shitbag realises that far more people disagree with their shitty views than they expected.
If Mark Zuckerberg punched your granny and you refused to open a Facebook account, is that Cancel Culture?
If Mark Zuckerberg punched your granny and you refused to open a Facebook account, is that Cancel Culture?
No, it’s more like the neighbor saying, “Great, now I have to watch what I eat.”
