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Innuendo Studios: The Alt-Right Playbook

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
#1
Innuendo Studios (Ian Danskin) previous author of "Why Are You So Angry" (a commentary on "Angry Jacks" angry young men such as those that participated in Gamergate) has a new series analyzing the Alt-Right called "The Alt-Right Playbook". So far there are three videos: one defining the alt right and describing what he wants to talk about, one describing debate tactics that they use to muddy any chance at reasonable argument, and the last describing the tactic of using short questions to appear in the dominant position in a conversation. The overall series is an attempt to "understand why you've been losing" and to "know how your enemy thinks".



Current Videos
Introduction
Control the Conversation
Never Play Defense
Mainstreaming
The Ship of Theseus

Endnote 1: What I Mean When I Say "The Right"
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,099
#8
Just finished watching the newest video of never playing defense and checking some of my post history and I practice most best practices when dealing with people not looking to discuss in good faith. Most of the time I request that they source their information or further explain, while letting them know I think it's pure bs. And the other time I quote them and talk to the greater thread on why what they said was just bs.
 
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GraphicViolets

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
#9
I feel like the latest vid was nice and focused. It definitely reminded me of very specific situations that I've seen and what worked for me and what didn't. Nice to see it put into words

Just finished watching the newest video of never playing defense and checking some of my post history and I practice most best practices when dealing with people not looking to discuss in good faith. Most of the time I request that they source their information or further explain, while letting them know I think it's pure bs. And the other time I quote them and talk to the greater thread on why what they said was just bs.
That's one thing I really like about the report feature here. If I feel like they're getting into a loop of them asking progressively more questionable questions I report them and put them on ignore. Doesn't really do much benefit when I know I'm arguing against a brick wall that will make my well thought out argument pointless by changing the topic. Best not to give them validity by treating their argument as something that is worth debating
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,998
#11
I watched his GG videos and it was amusing to see all the gg-ers on defense mode in the comment section. Ill have to give these videos a watch later
Same. It'd be hysterical at how lacking in self awareness those people are, if it wasn't so sad.
 
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mac

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
#13
Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
#14
Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.
But...this video isn't doing that?

The videos are helping people identify when folks are not even trying to argue in good faith.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,680
#15
Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.
nah, the problem is trying to figure how to identify and engage with people that have no interest in good faith debate or engagement.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,201
#16
Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.
Nobody needs videos telling them how to argue. In fact, these videos tell you NOT to argue, because these people are not simply across the political divide. They are disingenuous Nazis looking for any means to make their reprehensible ideas mainstream. The best thing you can do is not play their game.

As the videos point out, that's not natural for most lefties. They feel they can change minds with a well reasoned argument. That's not what's going on here.
 

mac

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
#17
But...this video isn't doing that?

The videos are helping people identify when folks are not even trying to argue in good faith.
nah, the problem is trying to figure how to identify and engage with people that have no interest in good faith debate or engagement.
Nobody needs videos telling them how to argue. In fact, these videos tell you NOT to argue, because these people are not simply across the political divide. They are disingenuous Nazis looking for any means to make their reprehensible ideas mainstream. The best thing you can do is not play their game.

As the videos point out, that's not natural for most lefties. They feel they can change minds with a well reasoned argument. That's not what's going on here.

Same thing. Choosing not to debate a person to me is making an argument. The fact that young liberals don't know when to stop means they are being led around by the nose by the alt-right. They've lost the initiative, that is, the ability to choose when, where, and how to fight.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,680
#18
I will admit I have historically been a total sucker for appeals to reasoned argument and discussion, even when the appeals are not entirely genuine.

i guess I should watch these videos
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
#19
Great video. Another aspect is that these "short, quippy accusations" are the purview of the thousands of fake bot accounts that infest alt-right Twitter, which affects the discourse too.
 

Karnova

Banned
Member
Oct 29, 2017
626
#20
Nobody needs videos telling them how to argue. In fact, these videos tell you NOT to argue, because these people are not simply across the political divide. They are disingenuous Nazis looking for any means to make their reprehensible ideas mainstream. The best thing you can do is not play their game.

As the videos point out, that's not natural for most lefties. They feel they can change minds with a well reasoned argument. That's not what's going on here.
That's also disingenuous though, no one on the internet gets their minds changed, or is looking for their minds to be changed. Let's be honest it's all really just fantasy politicking and on the internet people tend to take the most extremist viewpoints because that gives you the most attention.

Just look at this forum, I'm not going to get a reply by saying "Racism is ugly." Everyone knows that. I only get attention by taking an extremist viewpoint. The left does it too, I mean why is it cool to use "mansplaining" instead of the gender neutral condescending? I mean jeez is sexism really the ONLY reason someone will talk down to you? Maybe it could be that they're older than you or have the opinion that they know more (due to either having more experience or holding a position of authority). And they might be wrong on both counts but it has nothing to do with their gender. Why will liberals on Twitter throw out purposeful flamebait like "Kill All White Men" and state "I hate White People." It's not to strike up meaningful conversation it's to piss off a white guy.

Look if we all just talked face to face we'd for the most part have pleasant friendly conversations, because only a very very small minority of the population is truly vile. If you take the internet 100% seriously you'd think we'd be on the brink of civil war, truth is we're adapting poorly to the openness of the internet. The internet has sadly made it so that the loudest mouths hold a lot more sway than they would even a decade ago. No one wants to be pleasant on the internet that's why everything now turns back to politics.

I really recommend the documentary "Best of Enemies", about Gore Vidal and his feud with William F Buckley. It really shows how public discourse has gone to shit. If two really well educated men ended up arguing like assholes on TV normal joes have no hope whatsoever.
 

Karnova

Banned
Member
Oct 29, 2017
626
#22
[citation sorely needed]

Nobody you're directly arguing with gets their mind changed. But it's not about them. Never was.
It’s hyperbole. Generally I’d say people are really set in their ways post-college.

And frankly if young people are using a total garbage fire of a platform like Twitter to find their political compass we’re screwed.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
8,892
#23
And frankly if young people are using a total garbage fire of a platform like Twitter to find their political compass we’re screwed.
The president of the United States is using Twitter for... everything including flamewars. We're already screwed.
 
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GraphicViolets

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
#24
The left does it too, I mean why is it cool to use "mansplaining" instead of the gender neutral condescending? I mean jeez is sexism really the ONLY reason someone will talk down to you? Maybe it could be that they're older than you or have the opinion that they know more (due to either having more experience or holding a position of authority). And they might be wrong on both counts but it has nothing to do with their gender.
Just because theres other reasons for being condescending doesn't make gender specific condescendingness go away. The term exists because enough women have experienced it and it needs to be pointed out. it has nothing to do with trying to get a rise out of someone.
If someone wants to mention that someone is being condescending for other reasons, they have a word for that: "condescending"
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
8,892
#25
In another thread, we had a male poster literally trying to explain to the female posters how breasts, and breast physics, work.

Tell me mansplaining isn't a real thing after this, haha.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
#26
Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.
There is no "argument" with alt right types. That's the point. They don't want to argue, they want you to roll over.
 

Karnova

Banned
Member
Oct 29, 2017
626
#27
Just because theres other reasons for being condescending doesn't make gender specific condescendingness go away. The term exists because enough women have experienced it and it needs to be pointed out. it has nothing to do with trying to get a rise out of someone.
If someone wants to mention that someone is being condescending for other reasons, they have a word for that: "condescending"
I know it’s hearsay but I saw it throughout twitter throughout 2015. The dance would be the same.

1. Female twitter user makes a definitive statement
2. Male twitter user writes a response
3. Female would go “Oh thanks for the mansplaining” in a snarky tone.

It was utterly trite, Twitter is just these pithy back and forths that go nowhere. And when mansplaining was thrown around like that I just saw it as the first user blowing off the comment sent to them.

That’s what I’m talking about when I mean the internet is messing up conversation. Because it’s not a friendly argument it’s instead one side trying to score points over the other.
 
Oct 30, 2017
559
#31
There is no "political divide," since the alt right isn't a political movement.
Anything relating to power and authority relations, especially those in politics, is a political movement.
Fascism is by definition a political movement.
Trying to invoke power alterations on a political level, is by definition a political movement.

Whether you like it or not, you and they, are all playing the "political game".


Edit: On topic, his "why are you so mad" series is great at illustrating the ins and out of the "why" in gamergate. He does a great job looking past a specific wall or box and focus on logic in his arguments, which I always appreciate. So far, this series has been quite good, but I hope he won't be too slow on releases considering his recent video on his channel about his future.
 

mac

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
#32
Anything relating to power and authority relations, especially those in politics, is a political movement.
Fascism is by definition a political movement.
Trying to invoke power alterations on a political level, is by definition a political movement.

Whether you like it or not, you and they, are all playing the "political game".


Edit: On topic, his "why are you so mad" series is great at illustrating the ins and out of the "why" in gamergate. He does a great job looking past a specific wall or box and focus on logic in his arguments, which I always appreciate. So far, this series has been quite good, but I hope he won't be too slow on releases considering his recent video on his channel about his future.
And it's a game they are winning. The left needs to examine why it's so easy for the right to makes the issues and complaints of liberals such soft targets and bullet points to get the youth on the side of racism and bigotry. In that vein I appreciate what this video intends to do.
 
Oct 30, 2017
559
#33
And it's a game they are winning. The left needs to examine why it's so easy for the right to makes the issues and complaints of liberals such soft targets and bullet points to get the youth on the side of racism and bigotry. In that vein I appreciate what this video intends to do.
Oh i agree.
Looking at the current climates, whatever the hell vocal libs are doing ain't working and no one wants to admit that. A re-examination is absolutely in order and I agree that this video series does a great job in starting that re-examination.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,320
#35
This series is so mindblowing. I know now that trying to debate with them like we always do is just wasting time and energy.

But what if we try picking up their tactics? We make short, confrontational quips with facts?
 
Oct 26, 2017
15,264
#36
And it's a game they are winning. The left needs to examine why it's so easy for the right to makes the issues and complaints of liberals such soft targets and bullet points to get the youth on the side of racism and bigotry. In that vein I appreciate what this video intends to do.
Alt-right talking points are lazy and generally attack a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist, whether it's a form of feminism that seeks to destroy all men, a league of games journalists who wanna take all the bewbs away, or the "identity" of whiteness, it's something that very much appeals to incredibly gullible youths as well as manchildren. Hell, look at our president, he ran his entire platform on lies. Maybe stop trying to police the left like every other centrist ever. At best, it's annoying. As it treats the two sides as if they're equal.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,320
#37
Alt-right talking points are lazy and generally attack a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist, whether it's a form of feminism that seeks to destroy all men, a league of games journalists who wanna take all the bewbs away, or the "identity" of whiteness, it's something that very much appeals to incredibly gullible youths as well as manchildren. Hell, look at our president, he ran his entire platform on lies. Maybe stop trying to police the left like every other centrist ever. At best, it's annoying. As it treats the two sides as if they're equal.
Like the videos said: They don't care about being correct or well-researched. They care about how dominant they look. They're the ones on the offense, having power over the debate.
That's pretty much the MO for those Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs. And it's also a reason why they've been going for so long.

Ignore these points at your own peril.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,308
#38
I saw this posted on the other forum just before shit went down and I'm glad to see it re-posted here.

One of my old high school friends went alt-right years before even Gamergate, and I've definitely seen a lot of the behavior Innuendo notes, though it's definitely become more brazen and malicious post-Trump. I'm glad videos like this exist because people from progressive liberals to moderate centrist-conservatives need to understand just what kind of game American politics has become.
 
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GraphicViolets

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
#39
This series is so mindblowing. I know now that trying to debate with them like we always do is just wasting time and energy.

But what if we try picking up their tactics? We make short, confrontational quips with facts?
He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general
 

mac

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
#42
Alt-right talking points are lazy and generally attack a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist, whether it's a form of feminism that seeks to destroy all men, a league of games journalists who wanna take all the bewbs away, or the "identity" of whiteness, it's something that very much appeals to incredibly gullible youths as well as manchildren. Hell, look at our president, he ran his entire platform on lies. Maybe stop trying to police the left like every other centrist ever. At best, it's annoying. As it treats the two sides as if they're equal.
I'm not trying to police them, I'm trying to get them to win because what they are doing right now is failing. Odd way to define a centrist.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,320
#43
These videos are basically what my mom was trying to tell me all along:
If you ignore their puketalk, you're essentially taking away their power.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,213
#44
He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general
This is a hugely important thing I also believe. Rhetoric is not cleanly extricable from substance. When our rhetoric sours it does effect our substance
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,905
#45
I'm not trying to police them, I'm trying to get them to win because what they are doing right now is failing. Odd way to define a centrist.
Hmm..we could always use more helpful posts like this
Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,854
#46
He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general
It's the same dilemma popularizers of science have to confront in regards to creationists, conspiracy theorists, et al. Do they engage them openly and hope to inform the public and hopefully unmuddy the waters? But by doing so they may project the idea that these two schools of thought (one based on observable and testable facts, the other fiction) are equal.

I think it's an easy answer with the alt-right: their entire thing is about being disingenuous and causing strife. Just ignore them when possible.
 

SHAQ

Self-requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,214
Miami, Florida
#48
These videos are basically what my mom was trying to tell me all along:
If you ignore their puketalk, you're essentially taking away their power.
I thought so until I saw the second video: Controlling the conversation. Ignoring the puketalk gives them the power... over the conversation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,228
Houston
#49
It’s hyperbole. Generally I’d say people are really set in their ways post-college.

And frankly if young people are using a total garbage fire of a platform like Twitter to find their political compass we’re screwed.
citation needed. people can change their views as their lives progress.

I was republican in college and in the work first in my first few years. I also started reading GAF in college, and joined, ended up in Offtopic. I started reading debates about everything, even being involved in some. I've since gone from being republican with some left leaning ideas, to full on liberal.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
2,064
#50
After watching the last video, I'm getting the sinking suspicion the main lesson from this series will simply be "Don't feed the trolls".