Innuendo Studios: The Alt-Right Playbook

[GraphicViolets]

Innuendo Studios (Ian Danskin) previous author of "Why Are You So Angry" (a commentary on "Angry Jacks" angry young men such as those that participated in Gamergate) has a new series analyzing the Alt-Right called "The Alt-Right Playbook". So far there are three videos: one defining the alt right and describing what he wants to talk about, one describing debate tactics that they use to muddy any chance at reasonable argument, and the last describing the tactic of using short questions to appear in the dominant position in a conversation. The overall series is an attempt to "understand why you've been losing" and to "know how your enemy thinks".



Current Videos
Introduction
Control the Conversation
Never Play Defense
Mainstreaming
The Ship of Theseus

Endnote 1: What I Mean When I Say "The Right"

 

[DevilPuncher]

Ooh, I like this guy! Definitely gonna give these a watch after class.

 

[Enduin]

Will give these a watch the Angry Jacks/GG series was pretty good.

 

[thezboson]

Thank you for posting this. Fantastic videos!

 

[4859]

This is good stuff. Think I saw the first already, didnt know there were more. Will watch later

 

[Deleted member 14002]

Oh I love this guy. I'll give these a look.

 

[Falcon511]

I saw the first one and watched the second but didn't finish it. Got too tired. Will watch the new one.

 

[Darryl M R]

Just finished watching the newest video of never playing defense and checking some of my post history and I practice most best practices when dealing with people not looking to discuss in good faith. Most of the time I request that they source their information or further explain, while letting them know I think it's pure bs. And the other time I quote them and talk to the greater thread on why what they said was just bs.

 

[GraphicViolets]

I feel like the latest vid was nice and focused. It definitely reminded me of very specific situations that I've seen and what worked for me and what didn't. Nice to see it put into words

Just finished watching the newest video of never playing defense and checking some of my post history and I practice most best practices when dealing with people not looking to discuss in good faith. Most of the time I request that they source their information or further explain, while letting them know I think it's pure bs. And the other time I quote them and talk to the greater thread on why what they said was just bs.

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That's one thing I really like about the report feature here. If I feel like they're getting into a loop of them asking progressively more questionable questions I report them and put them on ignore. Doesn't really do much benefit when I know I'm arguing against a brick wall that will make my well thought out argument pointless by changing the topic. Best not to give them validity by treating their argument as something that is worth debating

 

[pewpewtora]

I watched his GG videos and it was amusing to see all the gg-ers on defense mode in the comment section. Ill have to give these videos a watch later

 

[DevilPuncher]

I watched his GG videos and it was amusing to see all the gg-ers on defense mode in the comment section. Ill have to give these videos a watch later

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Same. It'd be hysterical at how lacking in self awareness those people are, if it wasn't so sad.

 

[Deleted member 3058]

Loving this series. The third video, in particular, is pretty great.

 

[mac]

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

 

[Deleted member 3058]

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

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But...this video isn't doing that?

The videos are helping people identify when folks are not even trying to argue in good faith.

 

[Conciliator]

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

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nah, the problem is trying to figure how to identify and engage with people that have no interest in good faith debate or engagement.

 

[gaugebozo]

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

Click to shrink...

Nobody needs videos telling them how to argue. In fact, these videos tell you NOT to argue, because these people are not simply across the political divide. They are disingenuous Nazis looking for any means to make their reprehensible ideas mainstream. The best thing you can do is not play their game.

As the videos point out, that's not natural for most lefties. They feel they can change minds with a well reasoned argument. That's not what's going on here.

 

[mac]

But...this video isn't doing that?

The videos are helping people identify when folks are not even trying to argue in good faith.

Click to shrink...

nah, the problem is trying to figure how to identify and engage with people that have no interest in good faith debate or engagement.

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Nobody needs videos telling them how to argue. In fact, these videos tell you NOT to argue, because these people are not simply across the political divide. They are disingenuous Nazis looking for any means to make their reprehensible ideas mainstream. The best thing you can do is not play their game.

As the videos point out, that's not natural for most lefties. They feel they can change minds with a well reasoned argument. That's not what's going on here.

Click to shrink...

Same thing. Choosing not to debate a person to me is making an argument. The fact that young liberals don't know when to stop means they are being led around by the nose by the alt-right. They've lost the initiative, that is, the ability to choose when, where, and how to fight.

 

[Conciliator]

I will admit I have historically been a total sucker for appeals to reasoned argument and discussion, even when the appeals are not entirely genuine.

i guess I should watch these videos

 

[BDS]

Great video. Another aspect is that these "short, quippy accusations" are the purview of the thousands of fake bot accounts that infest alt-right Twitter, which affects the discourse too.

 

[Karnova]

Nobody needs videos telling them how to argue. In fact, these videos tell you NOT to argue, because these people are not simply across the political divide. They are disingenuous Nazis looking for any means to make their reprehensible ideas mainstream. The best thing you can do is not play their game.

As the videos point out, that's not natural for most lefties. They feel they can change minds with a well reasoned argument. That's not what's going on here.

Click to shrink...

That's also disingenuous though, no one on the internet gets their minds changed, or is looking for their minds to be changed. Let's be honest it's all really just fantasy politicking and on the internet people tend to take the most extremist viewpoints because that gives you the most attention.

Just look at this forum, I'm not going to get a reply by saying "Racism is ugly." Everyone knows that. I only get attention by taking an extremist viewpoint. The left does it too, I mean why is it cool to use "mansplaining" instead of the gender neutral condescending? I mean jeez is sexism really the ONLY reason someone will talk down to you? Maybe it could be that they're older than you or have the opinion that they know more (due to either having more experience or holding a position of authority). And they might be wrong on both counts but it has nothing to do with their gender. Why will liberals on Twitter throw out purposeful flamebait like "Kill All White Men" and state "I hate White People." It's not to strike up meaningful conversation it's to piss off a white guy.

Look if we all just talked face to face we'd for the most part have pleasant friendly conversations, because only a very very small minority of the population is truly vile. If you take the internet 100% seriously you'd think we'd be on the brink of civil war, truth is we're adapting poorly to the openness of the internet. The internet has sadly made it so that the loudest mouths hold a lot more sway than they would even a decade ago. No one wants to be pleasant on the internet that's why everything now turns back to politics.

I really recommend the documentary "Best of Enemies", about Gore Vidal and his feud with William F Buckley. It really shows how public discourse has gone to shit. If two really well educated men ended up arguing like assholes on TV normal joes have no hope whatsoever.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

no one on the internet gets their minds changed

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[citation sorely needed]

Nobody you're directly arguing with gets their mind changed. But it's not about them. Never was.

 

[Karnova]

[citation sorely needed]

Nobody you're directly arguing with gets their mind changed. But it's not about them. Never was.

Click to shrink...

It's hyperbole. Generally I'd say people are really set in their ways post-college.

And frankly if young people are using a total garbage fire of a platform like Twitter to find their political compass we're screwed.

 

[Morrigan]

And frankly if young people are using a total garbage fire of a platform like Twitter to find their political compass we're screwed.

Click to shrink...

The president of the United States is using Twitter for... everything including flamewars. We're already screwed.

 

[GraphicViolets]

The left does it too, I mean why is it cool to use "mansplaining" instead of the gender neutral condescending? I mean jeez is sexism really the ONLY reason someone will talk down to you? Maybe it could be that they're older than you or have the opinion that they know more (due to either having more experience or holding a position of authority). And they might be wrong on both counts but it has nothing to do with their gender.

Click to shrink...

Just because theres other reasons for being condescending doesn't make gender specific condescendingness go away. The term exists because enough women have experienced it and it needs to be pointed out. it has nothing to do with trying to get a rise out of someone.
If someone wants to mention that someone is being condescending for other reasons, they have a word for that: "condescending"

 

[Morrigan]

In another thread, we had a male poster literally trying to explain to the female posters how breasts, and breast physics, work.

Tell me mansplaining isn't a real thing after this, haha.

 

[Ithil]

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

Click to shrink...

There is no "argument" with alt right types. That's the point. They don't want to argue, they want you to roll over.

 

[Karnova]

Just because theres other reasons for being condescending doesn't make gender specific condescendingness go away. The term exists because enough women have experienced it and it needs to be pointed out. it has nothing to do with trying to get a rise out of someone.
If someone wants to mention that someone is being condescending for other reasons, they have a word for that: "condescending"

Click to shrink...

I know it's hearsay but I saw it throughout twitter throughout 2015. The dance would be the same.

1. Female twitter user makes a definitive statement
2. Male twitter user writes a response
3. Female would go "Oh thanks for the mansplaining" in a snarky tone.

It was utterly trite, Twitter is just these pithy back and forths that go nowhere. And when mansplaining was thrown around like that I just saw it as the first user blowing off the comment sent to them.

That's what I'm talking about when I mean the internet is messing up conversation. Because it's not a friendly argument it's instead one side trying to score points over the other.

 

[Maximo]

Started watching the Why Are You So Angry series, its pretty good.

 

[Popular Demand]

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

Click to shrink...

There is no "political divide," since the alt right isn't a political movement.

 

[mac]

There is no "political divide," since the alt right isn't a political movement.

Click to shrink...

I don't know about your beliefs but I'm opposed to almost everything they stand for politically so I see them as on the other side.

 

[Mailbox]

There is no "political divide," since the alt right isn't a political movement.

Click to shrink...

Anything relating to power and authority relations, especially those in politics, is a political movement.
Fascism is by definition a political movement.
Trying to invoke power alterations on a political level, is by definition a political movement.

Whether you like it or not, you and they, are all playing the "political game".


Edit: On topic, his "why are you so mad" series is great at illustrating the ins and out of the "why" in gamergate. He does a great job looking past a specific wall or box and focus on logic in his arguments, which I always appreciate. So far, this series has been quite good, but I hope he won't be too slow on releases considering his recent video on his channel about his future.

 

[mac]

Anything relating to power and authority relations, especially those in politics, is a political movement.
Fascism is by definition a political movement.
Trying to invoke power alterations on a political level, is by definition a political movement.

Whether you like it or not, you and they, are all playing the "political game".


Edit: On topic, his "why are you so mad" series is great at illustrating the ins and out of the "why" in gamergate. He does a great job looking past a specific wall or box and focus on logic in his arguments, which I always appreciate. So far, this series has been quite good, but I hope he won't be too slow on releases considering his recent video on his channel about his future.

Click to shrink...

And it's a game they are winning. The left needs to examine why it's so easy for the right to makes the issues and complaints of liberals such soft targets and bullet points to get the youth on the side of racism and bigotry. In that vein I appreciate what this video intends to do.

 

[Mailbox]

And it's a game they are winning. The left needs to examine why it's so easy for the right to makes the issues and complaints of liberals such soft targets and bullet points to get the youth on the side of racism and bigotry. In that vein I appreciate what this video intends to do.

Click to shrink...

Oh i agree.
Looking at the current climates, whatever the hell vocal libs are doing ain't working and no one wants to admit that. A re-examination is absolutely in order and I agree that this video series does a great job in starting that re-examination.

 

[Lucky241]

It's great he's making videos to point out modern day internet sophistry. These tactics have been around for thousands of years. Socrates and Plato took the sophists to task back in their day.

 

[Don Fluffles]

This series is so mindblowing. I know now that trying to debate with them like we always do is just wasting time and energy.

But what if we try picking up their tactics? We make short, confrontational quips with facts?

 

[Crossing Eden]

And it's a game they are winning. The left needs to examine why it's so easy for the right to makes the issues and complaints of liberals such soft targets and bullet points to get the youth on the side of racism and bigotry. In that vein I appreciate what this video intends to do.

Click to shrink...

Alt-right talking points are lazy and generally attack a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist, whether it's a form of feminism that seeks to destroy all men, a league of games journalists who wanna take all the bewbs away, or the "identity" of whiteness, it's something that very much appeals to incredibly gullible youths as well as manchildren. Hell, look at our president, he ran his entire platform on lies. Maybe stop trying to police the left like every other centrist ever. At best, it's annoying. As it treats the two sides as if they're equal.

 

[Don Fluffles]

Alt-right talking points are lazy and generally attack a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist, whether it's a form of feminism that seeks to destroy all men, a league of games journalists who wanna take all the bewbs away, or the "identity" of whiteness, it's something that very much appeals to incredibly gullible youths as well as manchildren. Hell, look at our president, he ran his entire platform on lies. Maybe stop trying to police the left like every other centrist ever. At best, it's annoying. As it treats the two sides as if they're equal.

Click to shrink...

Like the videos said: They don't care about being correct or well-researched. They care about how dominant they look. They're the ones on the offense, having power over the debate.
That's pretty much the MO for those Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs. And it's also a reason why they've been going for so long.

Ignore these points at your own peril.

 

[Watchtower]

I saw this posted on the other forum just before shit went down and I'm glad to see it re-posted here.

One of my old high school friends went alt-right years before even Gamergate, and I've definitely seen a lot of the behavior Innuendo notes, though it's definitely become more brazen and malicious post-Trump. I'm glad videos like this exist because people from progressive liberals to moderate centrist-conservatives need to understand just what kind of game American politics has become.

 

[GraphicViolets]

This series is so mindblowing. I know now that trying to debate with them like we always do is just wasting time and energy.

But what if we try picking up their tactics? We make short, confrontational quips with facts?

Click to shrink...

He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general

 

[Crossing Eden]

The truest part about this video is the part about how "debates" with those sorts of people genuinely put a target on your back.

 

[Don Fluffles]

He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general

Click to shrink...

Huh. I guess I didn't catch onto that somehow.

 

[mac]

Alt-right talking points are lazy and generally attack a boogeyman that doesn't actually exist, whether it's a form of feminism that seeks to destroy all men, a league of games journalists who wanna take all the bewbs away, or the "identity" of whiteness, it's something that very much appeals to incredibly gullible youths as well as manchildren. Hell, look at our president, he ran his entire platform on lies. Maybe stop trying to police the left like every other centrist ever. At best, it's annoying. As it treats the two sides as if they're equal.

Click to shrink...

I'm not trying to police them, I'm trying to get them to win because what they are doing right now is failing. Odd way to define a centrist.

 

[Don Fluffles]

These videos are basically what my mom was trying to tell me all along:
If you ignore their puketalk, you're essentially taking away their power.

 

[Mezentine]

He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general

Click to shrink...

This is a hugely important thing I also believe. Rhetoric is not cleanly extricable from substance. When our rhetoric sours it does effect our substance

 

[Deleted member 3058]

I'm not trying to police them, I'm trying to get them to win because what they are doing right now is failing. Odd way to define a centrist.

Click to shrink...

Hmm..we could always use more helpful posts like this

Young liberals have really lost the initiative if they need so many videos telling them how to argue with people across the political divide.

Click to shrink...

 

[FaceHugger]

He covers that in the vid. Stooping down to their level damages democracy in general. we want to do our best to keep that discourse out of the mainstream cause its only a detriment to society in general

Click to shrink...

It's the same dilemma popularizers of science have to confront in regards to creationists, conspiracy theorists, et al. Do they engage them openly and hope to inform the public and hopefully unmuddy the waters? But by doing so they may project the idea that these two schools of thought (one based on observable and testable facts, the other fiction) are equal.

I think it's an easy answer with the alt-right: their entire thing is about being disingenuous and causing strife. Just ignore them when possible.

 

[Pooh]

Thanks for the links. I'll have something to watch tonight!

 

[SHAQ]

These videos are basically what my mom was trying to tell me all along:
If you ignore their puketalk, you're essentially taking away their power.

Click to shrink...

I thought so until I saw the second video: Controlling the conversation. Ignoring the puketalk gives them the power... over the conversation.

 

[captive]

It's hyperbole. Generally I'd say people are really set in their ways post-college.

And frankly if young people are using a total garbage fire of a platform like Twitter to find their political compass we're screwed.

Click to shrink...

citation needed. people can change their views as their lives progress.

I was republican in college and in the work first in my first few years. I also started reading GAF in college, and joined, ended up in Offtopic. I started reading debates about everything, even being involved in some. I've since gone from being republican with some left leaning ideas, to full on liberal.

 

[Eidan]

After watching the last video, I'm getting the sinking suspicion the main lesson from this series will simply be "Don't feed the trolls".