Internet celebrity Etika may be losing it again [WARNING: RACIST AND HOMOPHOBIC SLURS] (Update: hospitalized again; see threadmark/staff posts)

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Timeaisis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,809
Austin, TX
Can some of y'all stop coddling this fool using the guise of mental illness? I get it, he's got issues. News flash, shit tons of people do and they get by without offending large swaths of ethnic groups.

I hope he gets help, but in the meantime, yea I'm gonna call a spade a spade.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,008
Because lol loud and funny fake reaction videos
As someone who used to watch him pretty frequently, it was a lot more than that. He's a genuinely funny and entertaining guy even outside of his reaction videos. Maybe the reaction videos are why he was popular but it was everything else about him that made people stick around.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,433
So I’m kind of with you that Etika himself is at fault here because I’ve had experience being in my own head and doing really horrible things I couldn’t even define, but it’s a lot more complex than someone recognizing they’re being bad and getting help. Etika needs to be involuntarily committed.
You cannot force treatment upon somebody unless they're a criminal or pose an imminent risk (even then, it's not a simple process). The help is out there, but until he chooses to take it, he has to deal with the consequences of his actions.

You can understand why he's doing bad things, while also forcing him to take responsibility for having done them.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
Can some of y'all stop coddling this fool using the guise of mental illness? I get it, he's got issues. News flash, shit tons of people do and they get by without offending large swaths of ethnic groups.

I hope he gets help, but in the meantime, yea I'm gonna call a spade a spade.
Mental illness can be incredibly destructive, just because it doesn't cause all people go say and do horrible things doesn't mean that it can't. Mental illness is not a single thing, is is a group of different conditions that do different things to a person. Mental illness can turn someone into an entirely different person.
My brother has a personality disorder that when left untreated can cause him to basically turn into a completely different person at the flip of a switch, an angry, hateful person.
 

AalDoopliss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,115
Canada
Ya know... I literally brought this thread up to my psychiatrist and therapist. Mentiones the whole "mental illness doesn't make you a bigot"

Know what they said? It can. It can make you a bigot, it can make you say bigoted things without actually being a bigot, and it can make you think conflicting thoughts causing a self loathing complex where you think bigoted things then beat yourself up about them.

They prefaced this with the fact that the human mind is complex and hard to unerstand without extensive study and treatment. They did mention however that they've seen all of the above. They also mentioned bigoted shit can be said to simply illicit response without caring believing said things.

So basically stop with the whole "mental illness and bigots are seperate" they can be yes, they also mentioned this guy needs serious help and is likely quite ill, and that he needs to be removed from every online platform he is a part of.
I never said mental health couldn't make you conduct yourself in any anti-social/controversial way. Unfortunately accountability for ones words and actions is ultimately in the eyes of those affected and subjected to it. So if he can't help it and he's dealing with feedback loops and self-destructive behavior, it doesn't change that in some contagious kind of way he is affecting other people too...illness or not, "mental health is not an excuse" but just a unfortunate state of circumstances where everyone involved gets hurt.

Sometimes I wonder if people actually read my posts or understand my intentions properly, this is the 3rd time(iirc) that some quoted me and basically addressed something that I felt was not my message. My bad if I suck at getting my idea across.

I personally have done and said inexcusable things while depressed or dealing with anxiety. There's no take backs or making amends with some, with others there was forgiveness I probably didn't deserve and feel privilleged.

Bottom line, he needs to get off his platform(or some loved one should intervene and help him along recovery) and get help. If the defense is he's joking, inexcusable. If the defense is "oh guys real talk i am going through something", inexcusable yes, please go get some help asap it doesn't need to be like this. You can't excuse bad behaviour, you have to let people know that cant happen, it's hurting people. If he can't control it, okay cool, seek help(I make it sound simple but is hard but hopefully you get how I meant it). I'm not exactly trying to attack him back or punish him or shame him...he made a mistake and it's important to acknowledge that it's not okay to behave like that and say what he says(i.e: inexcusable). Go seek help and come back to us amazing and energetic(on healthy terms).
 

Robotoboy

Member
Oct 7, 2018
305
Tulsa, OK
yeah but since etika supports lgbt+ stuff it can come off as weird to just randomly blurt homophobic stuff online. maybe it's part of the self harm
I'm just explaining as to why people are just succinctly labeling him a bigot, all while saying "mental illness doesn't do this"

It clearly does. It's been proven. I've asked professionals. The guy needs help. I just know that most people are saying "fuck his racist/homophobic ass" because they don't want to admit that him saying those things might not have been "him" they want to hold him accountable, while saying that mental illness doesn't do this shit - which in and of itself is delegitimzing of mental illness. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be held accountable, but let's not split the two apart.

It's hard for people to admit that things are complex, and not always so easily explained. As somebody who lives with really bad Bi-Polar 1 I know how complex these things can be. I'll even admit this, I've said racial slurs out of mania before, and I deeply regretted it. My best friend, a black man held me to it for a long time, and I took my lashings, and apologized each and every time, and to this day I regret it. I know I did wrong, and racists regularly fill me with deep anger... I just want more people to realize that it's far more complex than people often want it to be.

I never said mental health couldn't make you conduct yourself in any anti-social/controversial way. Unfortunately accountability for ones words and actions is ultimately in the eyes of those affected and subjected to it. So if he can't help it and he's dealing with feedback loops and self-destructive behavior, it doesn't change that in some contagious kind of way he is affecting other people too...illness or not, "mental health is not an excuse" but just a unfortunate state of circumstances where everyone involved gets hurt.

Sometimes I wonder if people actually read my posts or understand my intentions properly, this is the 3rd time(iirc) that some quoted me and basically addressed something that I felt was not my message. My bad if I suck at getting my idea across.

I personally have done and said inexcusable things while depressed or dealing with anxiety. There's no take backs or making amends with some, with others there was forgiveness I probably didn't deserve and feel privilleged.

Bottom line, he needs to get off his platform(or some loved one should intervene and help him along recovery) and get help. If the defense is he's joking, inexcusable. If the defense is "oh guys real talk i am going through something", inexcusable yes, please go get some help asap it doesn't need to be like this. You can't excuse bad behaviour, you have to let people know that cant happen, it's hurting people. If he can't control it, okay cool, seek help(I make it sound simple but is hard but hopefully you get how I meant it). I'm not exactly trying to attack him back or punish him or shame him...he made a mistake and it's important to acknowledge that it's not okay to behave like that and say what he says(i.e: inexcusable). Go seek help and come back to us amazing and energetic(on healthy terms).
I can agree with this.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,809
Austin, TX
Mental illness can be incredibly destructive, just because it doesn't cause all people go say and do horrible things doesn't mean that it can't. Mental illness is not a single thing, is is a group of different conditions that do different things to a person. Mental illness can turn someone into an entirely different person.
My brother has a personality disorder that when left untreated can cause him to basically turn into a completely different person at the flip of a switch, an angry, hateful person.
And? I'm well aware of that. What are you trying to say?
I have mental health issues too, so does my brother, and many more in my extended family. Are you trying to excuse shitty behavior because of mental health issues? Because I feel like that is helping no one, and kinda isn't fair to people with issues that are able to get by despite them.

Now if you are saying Etika is both an asshole and he has mental health issues, one of which is aggravating the other, I would agree.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
And? I'm well aware of that. What are you trying to say?
I have mental health issues too, so does my brother, and many more in my extended family. Are you trying to excuse shitty behavior because of mental health issues? Because I feel like that is helping no one, and kinda isn't fair to people with issues that are able to get by despite them.

Now if you are saying Etika is both an asshole and he has mental health issues, one of which is aggravating the other, I would agree.
You basically said "my mental illness doesn't make me say bad things, so why should his?" Not everyone is the same and not every mental illness is the same. He needs help that he hasn't been getting, him not getting that help has clearly led to major problems with his mind. I'm not questioning your mental illness, but you clearly know very little on the subject beyond what affects you personally. Mental illness can make people say and do horrible things and blaming them for their illness and telling them to just be better isn't helping anyone, it makes things worse.
Nobody is saying it's okay that he said these things, they are saying it's caused by illness that he needs to be treated for.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,809
Austin, TX
You basically said "my mental illness doesn't make me say bad things, so why should his?" Not everyone is the same and not every mental illness is the same. He needs help that he hasn't been getting, him not getting that help has clearly led to major problems with his mind. I'm not questioning your mental illness, but you clearly know very little on the subject beyond what affects you personally. Mental illness can make people say and do horrible things and blaming them for their illness and telling them to just be better isn't helping anyone.
Nobody is saying it's okay that he said these things, they are saying it's caused by illness that he needs to be treated for.
When did I say that? I agree with your position that mental illness can make people say terrible shit. I'm just not excusing it.
 

infinite

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,120
And? I'm well aware of that. What are you trying to say?
I have mental health issues too, so does my brother, and many more in my extended family. Are you trying to excuse shitty behavior because of mental health issues? Because I feel like that is helping no one, and kinda isn't fair to people with issues that are able to get by despite them.

Now if you are saying Etika is both an asshole and he has mental health issues, one of which is aggravating the other, I would agree.
You’re being wild. We’re not talking about “mental health issues” generally. We’re talking about someone with untreated mental health issues in a manic state.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,220
You basically said "my mental illness doesn't make me say bad things, so why should his?" Not everyone is the same and not every mental illness is the same. He needs help that he hasn't been getting, him not getting that help has clearly led to major problems with his mind. I'm not questioning your mental illness, but you clearly know very little on the subject beyond what affects you personally. Mental illness can make people say and do horrible things and blaming them for their illness and telling them to just be better isn't helping anyone.
Nobody is saying it's okay that he said these things, they are saying it's caused by illness that he needs to be treated for.
The trouble is he does not care. He refuses to get help.
 

infinite

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,120
And it's our fault he's untreated? It's his fucking responsibility to not hurt people, not mine.

You got to be kidding me.
Wtf are you talking about. I’m not ascribing fault to anyone. That’s not the point of contention. I don’t care if you wanna have righteous indignation towards a dude who just got forcibly hospitalized be my guest
 

Mit-

Member
Oct 26, 2017
417
The trouble is he does not care. He refuses to get help.
That is another symptom of his illness.
I rectify: I don't think he wants attention. I think he needs serious help.

Nuking his channel twice is not a way to seek attention and money. He had a way bigger audience before the first mess went down, let alone now. Just watch this shit:

If that's not having mental problems then I don't know what the fuck is. He already was in a mental hospital once, and was released not too long ago.

Guys... Are we really doing this? Are we really judging someone because of what they say *while having a mental breakdown under the effect of who knows what mental illness?

This is not a case of "oopsie woopsie I randomly said the F word playing a videogame!", this is someone who is VERY mentally ill having a mental breakdown. I like to think we, as a community, are beyond judging the beliefs of a mentally unstable individual during a mental breakdown. Etika has always been supportive of LGTB people for example, when gay marriage was legalised in the USA, he uploaded a video discussing and celebrating it, he even started the video with something like "if you are against this, you're not welcome on my channel", and I also remember a video he uploaded talking with TriForce (who's an ass and an idiot btw, but whatever) and they were talking about how some dude tried to screw him over and such and he said something homophobic and Etika, on stream, live, interrupted triforce, and said that his channel was no place for that kinda shit.

But he said the f-word during a mental breakdown while clearly being VERY mentally ill so he's automatically canceled because he's homophobic? huh

People do a lot of things for attention. Getting themselves arrested and into a mental hospital twice, while nuking all their audience and income in the process? Somehow I think that's not a very efficient way to be an attention seeker. And like someone already said, if a mental illness can make you kill yourself... do we really think it's outside the realm of possibility that it can also make you say stuff you don't actually believe in? Like, is that such a crazy concept for some of you?

There's a world of difference between PewDiePie randomly saying the N-word while playing videogames and constantly dropping pro-nazi shit on his channel, and Etika saying slurs while having a mental breakdown and being mentally ill.

This guy needs help, not bashing.

My two cents on this at least.
Need a required reading Staff threadmark to this.
 

IceFireTerry

Member
Mar 17, 2018
309
You cannot force treatment upon somebody unless they're a criminal or pose an imminent risk (even then, it's not a simple process). The help is out there, but until he chooses to take it, he has to deal with the consequences of his actions.

You can understand why he's doing bad things, while also forcing him to take responsibility for having done them.
this my sound authoritarian hell even totalitarian but i think you can make a case for forcing people to get help if it is proving to work
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
The trouble is he does not care. He refuses to get help.
He's clearly not in a state where he thinks he needs help, which is a problem.
And it's our fault he's untreated? It's his fucking responsibility to not hurt people, not mine.

You got to be kidding me.
Nobody is blaming you for him not being treated, we're pointing out that people saying stuff like you are are insensitive and clearly don't understand the magnitude of what mental illness can do to a person and you are very much blaming him for his illness, which is incredibly harmful.
Acknowledging that he is ill is not the same as condoning or hand waving the things he said, it's being mindful of the cause of it.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,809
Austin, TX
He's clearly not in a state where he thinks he needs help, which is a problem.

Nobody is blaming you for him not being treated, we're pointing out that people saying stuff like you are are insensitive and clearly don't understand the magnitude of what mental illness can do to a person and you are very much blaming him for his illness, which is incredibly harmful.
Acknowledging that he is ill is not the same as condoning or hand waving the things he said, it's being mindful of the cause of it.
Oh, I'm being insensitive now. I see. I'm not blaming him for his illness, but I am blaming him for his actions.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
Oh, I'm being insensitive now. I see. I'm not blaming him for his illness, but I am blaming him for his actions.
His actions caused by mental illness.
If someone punched you in the back of the head because of a tourette's syndrome tick would you blame them or would you be understanding of the cause? If someone was scratching their own skin off their arm because of disassociation would you blame them or be understanding of the cause?
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,365
His behaviour is evident of a manic episode induced psychosis and I wouldn't wish that shit on anybody. Racial, sexual slurs and destructive behaviour are one thing, but asking someone in the midst of phychosis to act rationally when they've deteriorated all reason and logic on a cognitive level is absurd and unreasoanble.

I guess we'll see, maybe.
 

base_two

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,203
Can some of y'all stop coddling this fool using the guise of mental illness? I get it, he's got issues. News flash, shit tons of people do and they get by without offending large swaths of ethnic groups.

I hope he gets help, but in the meantime, yea I'm gonna call a spade a spade.
This. He needs to be treated just like we treat JonTron, PewDiePie, Boogie, etc. The fact that he isn't is just...telling. Stop playing favorites.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,809
Austin, TX
Did I really just get asked if I'd blame someone for punching me in the head? Yes, yes I would. Sure, I would probably forgive them more easily because of their condition if they showed remorse and apologized, but the fact remains that they put themselves in a position where they could punch me in the head.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
239
Well what are on yon about then? All I've said is I think he's a dick and mental health is no excuse.
Mental health isn't an excuse, it's the huge piece of context to everything. It's why if a naked homeless guy talking to himself calls me a racial slur, I think very differently about that person compared to a random dude drinking at a bar calling me a racial slur. The action is the same, but the judgement I'm giving these people is very different.

"Mental disorder defense" is something accepted widely in society, throughout legal systems in the Western world. We as a society recognise that when people are mentally ill their responsibility for their actions isn't fully there.

If you're hurt and upset by the things Etika has said, then I don't think that's unreasonable. I think it's natural to feel that way. And if you do feel that way then it is totally fine to disengage with and disassociate with him. And when he is of sound mind I totally expect and want him to apologise for the things he's said and done. But when it comes to prescribing judgement on him right now, do you understand how people can find that to be unproductive and insensitive given that we're talking about things that he likely has no real control over.
 

Error 52

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,457
This. He needs to be treated just like we treat JonTron, PewDiePie, Boogie, etc. The fact that he isn't is just...telling. Stop playing favorites.
Those three are just douchebags, whereas Etika gives off the impression of being genuinely troubled and unstable.

Like I don’t need to watch the guy to say that he clearly needs help.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
So what are you saying? He's blameless in this?
The issue of taking responsibility for his actions is something that needs to after he's started treatment, hand waving the symptoms of his illness as him just being an asshole is only harmful and backward thinking.
Did I really just get asked if I'd blame someone for punching me in the head? Yes, yes I would. Sure, I would probably forgive them more easily because of their condition if they showed remorse and apologized, but the fact remains that they put themselves in a position where they could punch me in the head.
And guess what, he's seemingly not in a state where he is capable of asking for forgiveness, he needs to be treated first.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,809
Austin, TX
Guys maybe PewDiePie is just has narcissistic personality disorder.

The issue of taking responsibility for his actions is something that needs to after he's started treatment, hand waving the symptoms of his illness as him just being an asshole is only harmful and backward thinking.

And guess what, he's seemingly not in a state where he is capable of asking for forgiveness, he needs to be treated first.
And when he does, maybe then we can start having the discussion on whether or not to excuse his behavior.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
7,931
a sunken pirate ship
Did I really just get asked if I'd blame someone for punching me in the head? Yes, yes I would. Sure, I would probably forgive them more easily because of their condition, but the fact remains that they put themselves in a position where they could punch me in the head.
Haha, yep. People are confusion compassion with codependency/enabling. Sometimes you have to stop and leave shit when it gets this unhealthy.
Really, if a person needs professional help, that means they need professional help, not just the advice or vague emotional support of someone who would otherwise be close -- let alone an internet rando. It is unfortunate but sometimes necessary to make someone hit rock bottom in order for them to reach a point where they realize the harm their actions are doing.

This is not, fundamentally, a question of blame or even of character, but entirely one about safety. A person's mental state, outlook, opinions, etc. are not fixed, but they rarely change without outside stimulus, and sometimes they must change in order for everyone in the circle of that person to remain safe.

Etika's actions are between him and the professionals now, in a way. He will not live or die on what someone like myself has to say about him. Whether or not I "support" him is immaterial to any process of deprogramming and healing.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
Haha, yep. People are confusion compassion with codependency/enabling. Sometimes you have to stop and leave shit when it gets this unhealthy.
Really, if a person needs professional help, that means they need professional help, not just the advice of someone who would otherwise be close or even an internet rando. It is unfortunate but sometimes necessary to make someone hit rock bottom in order for them to reach a point where they realize the harm their actions are doing.

This is not, fundamentally, a question of blame or even of character, but entirely one about safety. A person's mental state, outlook, opinions, etc. are not fixed, but they rarely change without outside stimulus, and sometimes they must change in order for everyone in the circle of that person to remain safe.

Etika's actions are between him and the professionals now, in a way. He will not live or die on what someone like myself has to say about him. Whether or not I "support" him is immaterial to any process of deprogramming and healing.
And how is saying he needs help "enabling"? Nobody is excusing his actions, we are saying he needs professional help and that the cause of this makes a huge difference on the matter of whether or not Etika is an asshole.
And yes, judgement from others can be incredibly destructive for people with mental illness. He's unlikely to see what any of us are saying about him, but that doesn't make it any less shitty to blame him for his mental illness.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
7,931
a sunken pirate ship
And how is saying he needs help "enabling"? Nobody is excusing his actions, we are saying he needs professional help and that the cause of this makes a huge difference on the matter of whether or not Etika is an asshole.
And yes, judgement from others can be incredibly destructive for people with mental illness. He's unlikely to see what any of us are saying about him, but that doesn't make it any less shitty to blame him for his mental illness.
Bad behavior is bad behavior and needs to be called out. It doesn't become acceptable just because someone has mental difficulties.
The question of Etika's character, of what his motivation is for acting this way, is immaterial in that regard.

Jay Smooth's video on how to address bigotry got it right over a decade ago:
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,943
Bad behavior is bad behavior and needs to be called out. It doesn't become acceptable just because someone has mental difficulties.
The question of Etika's character, of what his motivation is for acting this way, is immaterial in that regard.

Jay Smooth's video on how to address bigotry got it right over a decade ago:
Nobody is saying it's acceptable, we are pointing out that there is a cause and that he needs treatment. If we were saying it was acceptable we wouldn't be saying he needs professional mental help.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,461
Bad behavior is bad behavior and needs to be called out. It doesn't become acceptable just because someone has mental difficulties.
Who said it's acceptable that it's bad behavior? There's a difference between not blaming someone and saying something is acceptable. There's a difference between saying "they're messed up and yeah it's bad they did that but I'm not gonna attack them for it" and saying "it's cool they did that because they're messed up."
 

BiGBoSSMk23

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,255
Did I really just get asked if I'd blame someone for punching me in the head? Yes, yes I would. Sure, I would probably forgive them more easily because of their condition if they showed remorse and apologized, but the fact remains that they put themselves in a position where they could punch me in the head.
Get over yourself, please.
 

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,407
Guys maybe PewDiePie is just has narcissistic personality disorder.
Cool false equivalence there. The two's behavior is vastly and clearly different. PDP's behavior is clearly lucid. No one is absolving him of his behavior or his responsibility to own up for it. We're just simultaneously admonishing this dumb fucking idea that mental health cannot make you act differently from your "Self" and this shit with people insinuating that advocating that fact means we're "handwaving slurs".
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
7,931
a sunken pirate ship
Who said it's acceptable that it's bad behavior? There's a difference between not blaming someone and saying something is acceptable. There's a difference between saying "they're messed up and yeah it's bad they did that but I'm not gonna attack them for it" and saying "it's cool they did that because they're messed up."
The problem is that there are people who are responding to people who are saying he's been behaving like an asshole with "but what about empathy" and I fundamentally reject that saying that someone is an asshole and saying that they need treatment/deprogramming -- or, for that matter, believing that dissociating from someone who is being violent or paranoid is sometimes a good and necessary act -- are ideas that are in contention.
 
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