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Ion Fury devs show signs of transphobia among other issues. [Update: Voidpoint apologizes in statement, see threadmarks]

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Bastables

Member
Dec 3, 2017
356
How is it not? It's a differentiation between people based solely on their gender/sex. That's, like, the definition of sexism. If I go out wearing a gown, people will be giving me very funny looks (best case scenario - worst case scenario, I get beat up), how is that not sexist? At the Cannes Film Festival, women were only allowed to enter if they wore high heels. How is that not sexist? Please, really, do explain to me in detail why you think gendered clothing isn't sexist. Because it evidently is.

It's not a dig at Muslim women, it's a dig at the sexist, misogyinist aspects of many Muslim-majority cultures (like Saudi women only now being able to leave the country on their own). Seriously, please read my post properly. If you do, you'll see that all my criticism is levelled at society, not at individuals. I myself follow many of these nonsensical, sexist rules (like sticking to mostly "male" clothing) because society has conditioned me to do that so if you think that I was criticising Muslim women there, I'd have to criticise myself just as much. (EDIT: The reason I used hijabs as an example is that it was illustrating the same principle with a piece of clothing that isn't considered "sexy" or revealing.)
No no no.

Sexism as defined within feminism is oppression of women, in contrast with talking about chuvanism. A Women exercising her agency in particular wearing revealing clothing during a slut-shamed protest is not fucking sexism. A male artist objectifying women in cartoon form is.

Robin Morgan put it best “And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism—the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group—skin color or sex or age, etc."

Even more side eye now you’ve decided to double down on the weird (now) anti Muslim tangent.
 

Harlequin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,586
Still, my point doesn't change.
Well, if your point is that an anonymous article of clothing by itself isn't sexist, then I suppose nor does mine, since I was arguing that society conditioning people to wear specific clothing based on their sex/gender was sexist. To get back to my high heels example, a pair of high heels sitting around on the floor, of course, isn't sexist. It could be worn by anyone, no matter their gender. A societal environment that discourages men from wearing them and encourages women to wear them (or often even pressures them into it), though? That is.

No no no.

Sexism as defined within feminism is oppression of women, in contrast with talking about chuvanism. A Women exercising her agency in particular wearing revealing clothing during a slut-shamed protest is not fucking sexism. A male artist objectifying women in cartoon form is.

Robin Morgan put it best “And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism—the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group—skin color or sex or age, etc."

Even more side eye now you’ve decided to double down on the weird (now) anti Muslim tangent.
You're seriously going to argue that men don't suffer as a result of sexism? Wow. Every single man who does not naturally fit into the stereotypical mold of "real manly man" (which, honestly, who does?) will have suffered as a result of sexism in his life. It's just that said suffering is usually less external and visible than it is for women. Society puts enormous pressure on men to act and appear "manly". To refrain from any kind of behaviour that might make them seem soft or feminine, to bottle up their feelings until they crack,... I'd even say that homophobia is nothing but an extension of sexism and you sure can't tell me men aren't suffering as a result of that.

Emma Watson explained it quite well during her UN speech:


EDIT: And I have not once said anything "anti-Muslim". Are you now going to deny that many Muslim-majority cultures have serious problems with misogyny and homophobia? That's not the religion's inherent fault, of course, (there were points in history when Muslim culture was, in fact, way ahead of Western culture when it came to enlightened, scientific thinking, attitudes towards homosexuality, etc.) but it is the current reality of things (and people in power are abusing religion to keep it that way). Denying it out of some misplaced sense of political correctness isn't going to help anyone, least of all the many people suffering in those countries.
 
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Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
397
Seems terminx can’t stop digging their heels in. I figured it was a throwaway comment in the morning but they just kept going.

So, let's finally get some all important context.



Apparently someone pushing an alt-right hate campaign is someone making a “good point”:




Among numerous other trash:



Doesn’t use social media though, just Twitter:





Doesn’t seem to be bothered about mediating anything, just fanning the supporters while they swarm to defend:





Was just replying rationally on Twitter, but that was a mistake:







Apology / they don’t hate anyone it’s all bullshit / they don’t dislike anyone that likes their game:








Here’s the main apology I think terminx would want included:

I follow Lauren Southern and SJW Nonsense for the sweet game mod screenshots.
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,667
Madrid
No no no.

Sexism as defined within feminism is oppression of women, in contrast with talking about chuvanism. A Women exercising her agency in particular wearing revealing clothing during a slut-shamed protest is not fucking sexism. A male artist objectifying women in cartoon form is.

Robin Morgan put it best “And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism—the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group—skin color or sex or age, etc."

Even more side eye now you’ve decided to double down on the weird (now) anti Muslim tangent.
I think you're painting their argument in a far worse light than is warranted. They are saying society enforcing the use to high heels, a very unconfortable and potentially harmful footwear, on women because of some standard of beauty, is sexist. I think few feminists would disagree with that.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,105
Fuuuuuuck this shit.

How hard is it to not be a bigoted asshole? To have some empathy? To be a decent person?

Too hard for these jerk offs apparently.
I'm pretty sure they are capable of empathy in general. It's linked to why they mock mostly social issues they aren't directly concerned with (minorities).
They didn't feel bad because they didn't see anyone to empathise with - they see it as an impersonal, inconsequential joke. When put in front of real people (aka. getting called out by people closer to them like later screenshots showed), I'm sure they'd think again before spouting inanities.

Not sure if it'll change the way they THINK though. There's a bit of confirmation bias in the way. If they only shared deformed images of extremes (memes and jokes), they forget that there are humans behind the caricature, with background and point of view that are different and yet legitimate. So they feel like they are getting punished over "doing nothing bad" since they are "not hurting anybody (real)".
I'm not sure they'll change the way they think about the world in the long term.


Plus the feeling that they can say what they want in their Discord without really thinking about the meaning behind it, since it's like a closed community, everyone is supposed to "understand" each other and agree without looking too closely to what's literally written. ;)
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Australia
They are saying society enforcing the use to high heels, a very unconfortable and potentially harmful footwear, on women because of some standard of beauty, is sexist. I think few feminists would disagree with that.
The societal expectation that you have to wear things like high heels is sexist. An employer insisting you have to wear high heels as part of your position would be sexist.

A woman choosing through her own agency to wear high heels is not sexist, and the hangup is that that poster is claiming that it is, while throwing in his own extra bit of sexism with "women would never choose to wear these things just for themselves." It's some "women only wear makeup to attract men" bullshit
 

alstrike

Banned
Aug 27, 2018
675
So lucky for you a couple of the devs have revealed themselves to be assholes so you think it's ok to admit to pirating their game here.

Out of curiosity, do you buy the other games you pirate when the devs are not shown to be assholes in the following weeks?
He probably pirates every single game.
 

Boddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,155
Also I don't understand why people don't understand what "witch hunt" means and keep using it wrongly. Or maybe they thought witches actually really existed?
Witches were and still are real in a sense, as in it's a harmless pagan practice.
Really though, witch hunts were about "showing women thier place".
 
May 21, 2019
362
So their transphobic and using the"I'm autistic shield" man the nerve of some people with my disability I swear. Don't pretend to not know what your doing it may be socially debilitating but I know for a fact what I'm doing and typing at all times. Hell I've had a solid social life. Folks like that give us a bad name :(
 

SparkleMotion

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,077
So their transphobic and using the"I'm autistic shield" man the nerve of some people with my disability I swear. Don't pretend to not know what your doing it may be socially debilitating but I know for a fact what I'm doing and typing at all times. Hell I've had a solid social life. Folks like that give us a bad name :(
Speak the truth, man. I have low level Autism but I always know whether what I'm saying is going to hurt someone.
 
Aug 22, 2018
124
NC, US
This isn't really comperable to Ooblets, though. One was a press release intended for an audience who was familiar with their tongue in cheek tone, the other is bigotry. Jesus, when will gamers ever fucking take a joke?

Anyway, seems these people are the self loathing "aspies" who are very willing to hurl anyone who needs more support than them under the bus of ableism to save their own skin. Worthless.
 

MrSaturn99

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,667
I live in a giant bucket.
Seems terminx can’t stop digging their heels in. I figured it was a throwaway comment in the morning but they just kept going.

So, let's finally get some all important context.



Apparently someone pushing an alt-right hate campaign is someone making a “good point”:




Among numerous other trash:



Doesn’t use social media though, just Twitter:





Doesn’t seem to be bothered about mediating anything, just fanning the supporters while they swarm to defend:





Was just replying rationally on Twitter, but that was a mistake:







Apology / they don’t hate anyone it’s all bullshit / they don’t dislike anyone that likes their game:








Here’s the main apology I think terminx would want included:

Always a hoot whenever the lazy "the perpetually offended just want to be mad!" excuse is trotted out.

Never heard of this game or the developer before, so no big loss.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
2,216
Another game / studio to throw on the never ending pile of “shit I won’t touch, cuz’ fuck ‘em”.

Bar’s getting pretty low, is it possible for companies to not act like assholes for more than a second?
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,062
They didn't know what the meme was about and they unliked it when told about it. And that's not the reason they were being harassed and horribly abused and getting death threats either.
This sucks. Love it when other "leftists" punch down only at autistic people.
They unliked it when they were told what it was - the second post about "people latching on to anything" isn't good but they were being horribly abused at the time so were not in the correct mind space to respond perfectly - it's really not in anyway the same as this dev situation.
 
Aug 22, 2018
124
NC, US
For the record, I'm not up on Ooblets at all (looks like another Epic Games Store issue?) and that thread mentions something about faked shots, so I guess it's not really confirmed there.
Thanks for finding this, anyway. Now that I think about it, seems fishy. Still, Ooblets devs are leagues above voidpoint.

Edit: Didn't see the above post, good to see they apologized. Sorry if I seem aggressive, I'm just very tired of being treated like shit for being a support level 2 autistic with a learning disability by "aspies".
 

JDFaulky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,093
Looks like I’ll be taking this game out of my Steam wishlist. The discord conversations are really bad, but those are individual opinions. The fact that the developer’s official Twitter account is defending it and arguing with people is an extremely bad look for a company. If that’s what they want their image to be, then I don’t want to buy their products.
 

AlexFlame116

Member
Nov 17, 2017
16,279
Utah
I love how even with context the posts that they made are extremely horrible and disrespectful lol. Context adds NOTHING to benefit what they said.

And they always, always say something along the lines of "I'm sorry you're upset at what I said but those are just my beliefs and I have the right to express them". Like if WE'RE the problem.
 

Unknownhero

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,146
They didn't know what the meme was about and they unliked it when told about it. And that's not the reason they were being harassed and horribly abused and getting death threats either.
see, I highly doubt that as that was a well know meme to insult autistic people and even if they didn't why would they like a meme they didn't know the meaning of? Sorry but I'm suspicious as fuck about that.
 

trashtabby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
That's not really comparable to this. There legitimately is context that's missing from the screencap. That Discord channel was being flooded by people from 4chan and the like harassing the developers, which included concern trolling. So I can get why they wouldn't take someone telling them there that it's an ableist meme at face value at that moment. It's also not immediately obvious that it's an ableist meme without knowing its origins.

That's not to say their response was good, but I can understand them not apologizing at that moment.

EDIT: Also just checked and they unliked that tweet since.
 
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SilentStorm

Member
Apr 14, 2019
183
Oh, regret getting this game on Early Acess day one since i wanted a game like this so much, or replaying the preview levels quite a few times, or playing the game when it finally came out, were they like this all the time on Discord?

I really never join a Dev's community on Discord so i have no idea, but still, pretty sure i can't refund a game i've had since Early Acess.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,062
see, I highly doubt that as that was a well know meme to insult autistic people and even if they didn't why would they like a meme they didn't know the meaning of? Sorry but I'm suspicious as fuck about that.
I actually didn't know about it until it came up with the Oooblets dev thing - is it really that common?
 

trashtabby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
I actually didn't know about it until it came up with the Oooblets dev thing - is it really that common?
It's a common meme, plenty of people don't know that it's ableist though. I didn't know for sure that it was until way after I first saw it, and I've had to explain to people that it's ableist before.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
682
Sexism as defined within feminism is oppression of women
But that isn't what sexism actually means or is. I mean, you can redefine things to mean other things so your position makes sense for literally anything.

By the definition you quote there cannot be any sexism against people who do not conform to standard genders, which makes it a non-inclusive and gender normative definition designed to empower a certain group (females) at the expense of all others.

Sexism is discrimination based on sex - which can (as per the laws of reality) happen to any sex. It is not a card that one particular sex gets to hold onto and deny to any of the others while lording it over them.

As someone who is gender non conforming a lot of the feminism stuff is quite offensive and frankly narrow minded.
 

Zacmortar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,067
Huh, never knew that REEE meme was ableist and now i feel just that extra touch shittier from all the times ive seen it. Jesus Christ
 

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
Are we sincerely in a defecit of people who aren't fucking shitheads that also just happen to make great video games?

No!
 
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