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Ion Fury devs show signs of transphobia among other issues. [Update: Voidpoint apologizes in statement, see threadmarks]

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hydro94530

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,170
Bay Area
If you have a Turing card I'd highly recommend Quake 2 RTX. Impressive how good the level design holds up to this day and the lighting and shadows are just mind blowingly good.

On topic: glad I saw this thread before buying the game, I was planning on picking it up on sale after seeing it on Digital Foundry. Removed it from my wishlist earlier today. Fuck these devs, the context from their Discord chat just makes everything even worse IMO.
Off topic but do you know if anyone was able to get controllers working with Quake RTX? It’s the only reason I haven’t played it. I know you can do it via steam big picture (I think that’s it), but I read it wasn’t very good.

On topic, I’m passing on this game because of all this. I never followed it but it did look cool and GMG had it for $18, but nah I’ll pass!!
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
In the end this is just stuff some people said on their own Discord server, some of it months old. I doubt games journos hang around indie dev's servers and read them all on the off chance someone shits the bed, so I imagine this won't get much momentum unless folks reach out to them. Plenty of them on Era, could also drop them a line on Twitter.
It's all over Twitter if you follow the right people (though a few are sub-tweeting about it, rather than explicitly mentioning it). Unfortunately, I think that few journalists/sites are going to care. This is coming close on the heels of the Ooblets dev's being abused, which will probably make some places gun-shy about "This dev said some inflammatory things", and "Game dev saying shitty things/being an awful person" is rarely news anyways.
 

ShadowOwl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
281
For certain the stuff that has been said by some of the devs has been truly awful and condemnable. But the amount of "eat shit and die" style posts in this thread is kind of worrisome for a place that about discussing games. People can keep yelling at each other that being offensive about offensive stuff is okay but it certainly makes people with different opinions listening to you way less likely.
 
Oct 27, 2017
461
Some Rando Gamer every 5 or so posts: Ah the witch hunt has started I see and over something as minor as rabid transphobia? How typical (Smugly pushes up glasses)
 

AlexFlame116

Member
Nov 17, 2017
16,255
Utah
He'll probably make a Twitter post about how stupid Era is or something and cherry pick the quotes needed while at the same time doubling down on his crap.

It's weird the lengths that some will go to continue doing things their way.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,908
For certain the stuff that has been said by some of the devs has been truly awful and condemnable. But the amount of "eat shit and die" style posts in this thread is kind of worrisome for a place that about discussing games. People can keep yelling at each other that being offensive about offensive stuff is okay but it certainly makes people with different opinions listening to you way less likely.
I am no hardliner on this matter. I think civil discourse can work with some individuals, but will fail with others. In the case of these developers, we have screenshots of two people trying to calmly explain to them their misconceptions regarding trans people, only to be dismissed and insulted by other members of the Discord. These people are not willing to better themselves.
 

ShadowOwl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
281
I am no hardliner on this matter. I think civil discourse can work with some individuals, but will fail with others. In the case of these developers, we have screenshots of two people trying to calmly explain to them their misconceptions regarding trans people, only to be dismissed and insulted by other members of the Discord. These people are not willing to better themselves.
Yup, but the main audience of this thread are not the devs of Iron Fury.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
For certain the stuff that has been said by some of the devs has been truly awful and condemnable. But the amount of "eat shit and die" style posts in this thread is kind of worrisome for a place that about discussing games. People can keep yelling at each other that being offensive about offensive stuff is okay but it certainly makes people with different opinions listening to you way less likely.
No tolerance for bigotry is the way to go, to be honest. A recurrent topic in US PoliERA is that racists get more upset by being called racist, than their actual racist viewpoints. Same applies here - if someone is more upset about the language used towards them than by their own awful views, then there's clearly something wrong with their ability to self-reflect on those views. And ignorance has no place here - it's not a big ask to just accept trans people for who they are.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,564
Las Vegas
Cliffy saying "separating art from artist" wasn't what bothered me. It was him saying "stupid outrage bullshit" that bothered me and why I linked his tweets.
 
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erpg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
280
Ottawa
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing Concerns of Transphobia
I don't agree with their polticial views, but I'll be honest, some of you folks do seem to get off on rage and accusations.
 

GrizzNKev

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,296
Well, not him - outside of his inability to solve From Software's terrible work conditions.

But I'm more talking about H.P. Lovecraft. And how the game was clearly inspired by his work.

Cliffy saying "separating art from artist" wasn't what bothered me. It was him saying "stupid outrage bullshit" that bothered me.
Lovecraft died in 1937. lmao
 

JayCB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,202
Wales
I know this place has fallen so much it’s become a Marxist echo chamber. They’ve defended pedo’s masquerading as trans, defended Antifar and only care about outrage.

I don’t give a fuck about somebody’s feelings trans or not and fuck off with this give up my liberty’s just so I can’t offend anyone, or heaven help me I assume somebody’s gender.

I often imagine that reset is like that DSA conference where the guy dressed like a superhero goes nuts because someone used gendered language OMG how fucking dare someone the word He/She.

Get a fucking life you bunch of SJW’s.

#trump2020
#getfukdera
#brexit forever


Btw the devs were right. Look at u all circle jerking with your hate boners haha this place is fucking stupid
hashtags don't work when they have spaces in them
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
Well, not him - outside of his inability to solve From Software's terrible work conditions.

But I'm more talking about H.P. Lovecraft. And how the game was clearly inspired by his work.
I think this is a bi of a stretch. Yeah, Lovecraft inspired Bloodborne, but we're not playing a game that financially supports the estate of Lovecraft. Like, The Two Jakes is the sequel to Chinatown, but if we watch it, we're not supporting the director of Chinatown, we're supporting the director of The Two Jakes.

I don't agree with their polticial views, but I'll be honest, some of you folks do seem to get off on rage and accusations.
No. Tolerance. For. Bigotry. It ain't hard to understand - their views aren't something relatively benign like "I support tax cuts for the middle class", they're hostile to a section of the population.
 
Feb 9, 2019
620
Gacha Hell
It's all over Twitter if you follow the right people (though a few are sub-tweeting about it, rather than explicitly mentioning it). Unfortunately, I think that few journalists/sites are going to care. This is coming close on the heels of the Ooblets dev's being abused, which will probably make some places gun-shy about "This dev said some inflammatory things", and "Game dev saying shitty things/being an awful person" is rarely news anyways.
I didn't consider the Ooblets debacle but it's also a fair point. Even if I doubt Voidpoint would face one tenth of the backlash or abuse the Ooblets devs did. A dev having extremely ass backwards views on trans rights and vaccination with some extremely questionable twitter follows and responses on the side and just being all-around bigoted is a 5 at best on the mainstream gamer outrage scale. A dev not only taking a deal almost too good to be true to make their game exclusive to the Epic Store, but being snarky about the way they announce it? Gamers with rise. The. Fuck. Up.

What a timeline.
 

Sacul64

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,758
The incredible part is there are more people who liked or were excited by the game in question upset about this, meanwhile almost all of the defenders of the devs terrible behavior have demonstrated no interest or knowledge of the game.
Well speaking for myself I was lurking in the topic that got posted on how was the first woman lead fps in ages discounting any games like Metroid Prime, Wolfenstein, or Dishonored. TC also ignored any posts pointing out the devs non progressive nature and dismissed that Duke nukem but a woman is not really progressive. So I guess that topic made me more interested in this whole thing.
 

CenturionNami

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,662
Fuck these guys. Just digging there own graves too. Seriously why is it so hard to get a PR person?!

Well, not him - outside of his inability to solve From Software's terrible work conditions.

But I'm more talking about H.P. Lovecraft. And how the game was clearly inspired by his work.

Cliffy saying "separating art from artist" wasn't what bothered me. It was him saying "stupid outrage bullshit" that bothered me.
Give me a SINGLE example of Bloodborne endorsing Lovecraft's racist views.

The main character of the game is foreigner, something that would be antithetical to his worldview.
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,555
Madrid
because Harlequin decided that this was trenchant to women reclaiming sexualised wear in slut walk protests
Got a link for that? It doesn't seem to be in any of the posts in the reply chain I was answering to.

Edit: I see that was in a comment by one of the devs. I don't interpret Harlequin as agreeing with that comment, but rather a different tangent about gendered dress codes.
 

samred

Editor @ Ars Technica
Verified
Nov 4, 2017
839
Seattle, WA
I'm sure people will understand that I can't just not reply when others keep trying to paint me
I can't just not reply
Take it from someone whose job revolves around choosing when to reply or not reply. Sometimes, not replying is fine! Listening, acknowledging, taking a deep breath, confronting our own cognitive dissonance. That may seem insane in a world full of likes and replies and spiraling threads, but, seriously, sometimes your "reputation" will be in better shape if you DON'T rush to defend yourself or explain where you're coming from.

This is as much a message to you as to anyone else in this thread, including myself.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,584
But I'm more talking about H.P. Lovecraft. And how the game was clearly inspired by his work.
This doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Consider that 1984 is directly influenced by European totalitarian regimes of the time. You have to be in order to criticize a subject. So you can be inspired by something and be totally ideologically opposed to it, create work that is totally ideologically opposed to it, and act against its benefit.
 

ShadowOwl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
281
No. Tolerance. For. Bigotry. It ain't hard to understand - their views aren't something relatively benign like "I support tax cuts for the middle class", they're actively hostile to a section of the population.
You don|'t have have to tolerate that kind of shit but you can still and should engage in a civilized disucssion in this forum and report problematic posts to the mods.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
6,005
If you have a Turing card I'd highly recommend Quake 2 RTX. Impressive how good the level design holds up to this day and the lighting and shadows are just mind blowingly good.

On topic: glad I saw this thread before buying the game, I was planning on picking it up on sale after seeing it on Digital Foundry. Removed it from my wishlist earlier today. Fuck these devs, the context from their Discord chat just makes everything even worse IMO.
Sadly I'm still on Pascal :( Doom Eternal looks dope at least! :D
 

Timmy00

Member
Oct 27, 2017
208
Yeah I'll be sure to never buy this game now and never support whatever the devs attempt in the future. Maybe, just maaaaaaaaaybe, learn how to accept and love people and not be a terrible person. If I learn one of my friends are interested in the game, I'll be sure to tell them this so that they can make an informed decision.
 

Love Machine

Member
Oct 29, 2017
879
Tokyo, Japan
Takes like these are always the worst. I used to assume they came from a legitimate place but idk anymore.
What what hearts and minds are we trying to get in this case? The people in Discord who were in their own loop of transphobic bigoted running commentary, who, after being called out, instead of apologizing or offering any semblance of reticence whined about how they were being taken out of context and then provided the exact same context that was initially given, and then ran back to Discord to complain and offer autism as an excuse for bigotry?

Are we supposed to just endless protect the egos of grown adults who willfully and maliciously target vulnerable populations? And notice how the dialogue is always about massaging and protecting the egos of bigots, based on some naive hope of pulling them back from the brink, and never about the people that they harm.
Just wanted to say that this was the perfect response and it really helped me put my thoughts in order.

I used to think this kind of dialogue was legit as well, but it quickly dawned on me that something was inherently wrong with it. When it comes to dealing with people like the Voidpoint devs, I don’t condone harassment, abuse or crime (e.g. piracy), but there’s no way you can simply turn the other cheek and hope that a gentle word here and there will change them for the better.

At best, it’s naive. At worst it’s straight up deflection and trivialises the issue at hand.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
3,574
Thailand
Ugh. For those among us that watch the streamer DansGaming, he just found out about the controversy via steam reviews, made an off-hand remark about the 'politics' of the few reviews mentioning the devs' transphobia, and proceeded to buy the game. He is playing it right now. I am so disappointed. I subbed to this guy previously. Now I unfollowed. Bleh.
Let's be realistic.
The most Gamers People doesn't care what the problem the Devs.
 

Miracle Ache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
556
Another developer to avoid.

Not only are they hateful shitbags, but they're also dumbasses for continually digging themselves deeper.
 

KG

Member
Oct 12, 2018
48
Wtf? Acceptance of trans folk have equal rights is a political view, and bigotry towards them is acceptable to a lot of folks still? This is 2019? Bet these folks believe the earth is flat and praying works.
 
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