It's about people who feel offended (one or the other) and about the whole team behind this game.
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Ion Fury devs show signs of transphobia among other issues. [Update: Voidpoint apologizes in statement, see threadmarks]
- Thread starter Twenty5Thousand
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Yeah, and when I attempt to explain it to them, they seem incapable of understanding, either because they can't or don't want to. They have a live and let live attitude toward trans people (they don't support taking people's rights away) but that's like the bare minimum in my eyes and they seemingly have no interest in progressing any further. Makes me glad I'm not trans, frankly.
Read the thread. It's pretty obvious there's no "witch hunt" (witch hunt implying the thing being complained about didn't happen in the first place), and it's defenitely not just some guy's "one opinion".
Read the thread before bemoaning how people are treating the developers and proclaiming how great the game is. Right after screens of one of the developers being directly transphobic to someone trans on their discord, and questions if vaccines might cause autism while another member advocates for beating children and calls the trans member a r****d.
Christ this story just gets better and better I just wish someone who's trans actually confront them on it and be like yo this is wrong and here's why. I'm all for talking and teaching but these guys seem like their just going to deflect the blame and keep to their bad opinions.
I've tried but I've given up on them, they always treat me like an idiot so I don't engage with them more than necessary. I would say my parents have a similar attitude of rights but then again with them believing homosexuals and trans are naturally more violent, I have my doubts. No fooling they're and a good chuck of my family are not happy of the aesthetics choices I make of how I present myself to the world, and they already give me crap on things I have no control over so I don't want to know how they'd treat me if I was something they are bigoted against, so also glad like you.
Full context
That's literally what that conversation was. The developer spewed transphobic points at them (the trans member) while another member belittled and insulted them, alongside advocating for beating children. Then the developer nodded to vaccines causing autism and said they aren't surprised that trans people 'off themselves' after surgery.
Full thing below:
Some people don't understand whatsoever, but I have to imagine a lot of these people don't want to understand, or think they already know and have no interest in correcting their misinterpretations or misunderstandings.
My conservative-leaning grandfather is 85 years old and is among the most understanding and supportive people in my family towards my sister who is trans and went out of his way to educate himself, so it's not like there's this impossible gulf to bridge caused by generational distance alone. If people want to listen, learn, and understand they can do it regardless of any other circumstances. I guess that's what makes it so frustrating for me, it's not some impenetrable concept, it's quite the opposite assuming you want to be empathetic and understanding in the first place.
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The context makes it even better (worse), so they're antivaxx too?
I think they're just dumb and cling to right wing talking points.
That's pretty much the opposite of how I read this post. I saw it as "You're killing all the hard work you put into this by being shitlords."
Seems like it, doesn't absolve them of anything though. Not accusing you of doing so though.
True but that's p much the same as far as I'm concerned
That's rough, I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
Yeah that's a good point. I think a lot of people don't have a personal motivation to learn (like a family member who is trans) so they don't bother. And then a lot of people do have that personal connection to a trans person...and then choose to ostracize them.
Thank you for your kind words, but don't worry I've learned how to cope with this and it's not like everyone in my family is like that, mostly my immediate family tend to be more problematic for me but not all of them are. Besides, I didn't turn out like them so small actually big victories!
This is truly incredible stuff.
To summarize for people who can't be arsed to read the whole thing (I don't blame them):
- We have two people in that Discord that are patiently trying to educate this dev about trans issues
- They try to explain gender dysphoria, how transitioning works, puberty blockers, etc., and post resources and links.
- Meanwhile you have this horrible bigot (not the dev) peddling transphobic bullshit and myths about suicide rates, and even saying trans kids should be "beaten into being rational" and linking to far-right resources.
- The dev not only ignores the bigot posting that gross shit and never calls them out...
- The dev is not even remotely receptive to what the other two are saying;
- The dev continues to post ridiculous, debunked myths, such as "laws forcing kids to go through surgery", puberty blockers causing infertility and even making your bits disappear (??? how fucking stupid is this guy), etc.
- The dev constantly posts disingenuous nonsense like "I'm not an expert but <insert myth here>", "I don't know anything but I saw a doctor say this once"
- One of the two patient Discord member points out, "Yeah well we had a doctor saying vaccines cause autism so..."
- The dev basically says "sure you never know" in response to that (!)
- The dev then concludes, despite being given overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that that trans teenagers must be killing themselves because they transitioned too early.
Even tl;dr shorter summary:
- The dev is transphobic
- The dev ignores all information and resources that could educate him;
- The dev continues being transphobic and also posted anti-vaxx talking points as a bonus.
And then you have people saying we should take the time to educate these bigots and not be too mean to them. Well, here you go folks, those are the results.
Edit: not saying those two were wrong to try. They absolutely weren't and I commend them for it. It hopefully worked on lurkers and bystanders to open their eyes, and maybe next time someone will be receptive. But I'm saying, it's small wonder that there are some who are fed up with this, especially when it's obvious the recipient is not discussing in good faith, and even lets a bigot spout his hateful propaganda unchecked right next to him.
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So Jesus christ you blame the people calling out the hate
For fucks sake
Marginalized people already have stressful lives just due to being marginalized, and you want to add more to their plate by saying they're perpetuating the, hate by not converting bigots to "their side"
Piss off
Yeah you should be proud of that.
Eh, I think attempting to educate people is still useful and important. Just don't expect it to work with everyone. Just exposing people to other sources of information is helpful. I just don't think we should lay the responsibility of doing that work at the feet of the marginalized.
What really makes me mad is some members coming in and not only downplaying the things that devs did, they also get mad at the idea of review bombing the game or criticizing it.
Then if they get called out they start acting like they're the victim.
I agree with you but it's just incredible to see this juxtaposed with "we gotta educate them politely/so much for the tolerant left" rhetoric heh.
I applaud those two patient Discord members for sure. They didn't get through to those asshats at all but hopefully some lurkers had their eyes opened.
Look, its clear it didn't work here, but one sample doesn't mean you don't try. Hell another poster just said his ultra conservative Grandfather got educated and was supportive of his sister who was transitioning.
Like you can't let a couple shitty instances color your whole impression, I mean, we have evidence of white nationalists being shown how wrong and hurtful they were/are and changing and speaking out against it.
So yeah fuck this dev in particular because they refuse to listen, but don't write every human off because of a couple examples. You will reach more than you know by just trying and then ignoring anyone who doesn't want to try to get better.
MrNerp is a total bellend. Was he fed turpentine when growing up? Jesus...
Ignore me I made a big mistake involving misinformation on my end, I am and was wrong on this issue. Listen to these two instead.
Thanks and I am, I've always been observant in learning form the mistakes of others and calling out the bullshit so much so that their and that screams bullshit to me ringing the bells/rising the red flags in my head.
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Yeah that rhetoric is dumb and always has been. The fact that people are trying to educate others is an example of patience and tolerance.
So all of you going "trans people should educate transphobes" know that is just going to result in trans people having to talk to incredibly ignorant assholes who continually insult them throughout the conversation and ignore anything they bring up right?
Cause that's how that usually tends to go. Yeah there are people who might change their mind, but you're asking people to go through a whole lot of mental strain to do that.
Cause that's how that usually tends to go. Yeah there are people who might change their mind, but you're asking people to go through a whole lot of mental strain to do that.
This redneckerz guy is like the typical case of a clingy insecure ex who can't take no for an answer / can't accept that he got booted the fuck out of his relationship, so years later he still obsesses about it, stalks their ex and badmouths them all the time. He got banned like more than a year ago from here, then made a career out of obsessing about resetera over at the other site, then got banned there too. Now he's publicly bitching about it on discord. I don't throw the term "pathetic" around lightly, but this guy is the embodiment of a pathetic loser.
I agree, and I've edited my post to clarify. That's not what I meant at all.
Welp I guess fuck Voidpoint.
At least for the time being. Sure sucks finding out so many game devs are pieces of shit.
At least for the time being. Sure sucks finding out so many game devs are pieces of shit.
If some games get review-bombed for daring to put women in their games, unless services take a stronger stance against this it should be review-bombed imo.
Andrew Wakefield was forced to rescind the paper, but certainly does not regret it and still peddles his anti-vax nonsense to this day. Sadly.
This is very unfortunate and I feel bad for the trans individuals who have to endure being mistreated by those folks.
I hadn't bought the game yet and this just makes me want to forget the whole thing existed. Unless something radically changes, which sadly seems increasingly unlikely as more information comes out.
I hadn't bought the game yet and this just makes me want to forget the whole thing existed. Unless something radically changes, which sadly seems increasingly unlikely as more information comes out.
Solid breakdown of that convo, thanks for writing it up. I'm still stunned they continued on the "lack of context" angle with this all out there.
Goes a long way past 'signs of' at this point, between liking transphobic tweets and blaming autism for their Twitter response to arguing transphobic talking points with trans people while letting other members insult and lambast them, and putting nods out to vaccines causing autism.
Absolute garbage.
Are you talking about Andrew Wakefield? Because he ended up the opposite of what you are saying.
As someone who's Mexican I don't put myself at risk on trying to educate these fuckers, as such I don't put the onus of education on the marginalized. Hey if you want to try (I don't know why you would), then more power to you and I wish you the best of luck because you're going to need it. I mean it does have merit and educating the ignorant is important but yeah it's sadly and unfortunately an uphill battle.
Thank you for telling me, going to edit my post, as I don't want misinformation spreading! Yeah, apologizes I was am wrong, going to correct that.
You're not wrong that educating people can create a positive change in someone who is transphobic, but I think that you're really underestimating how stubborn people can be and just how common interactions like that one are. People are so certain that they 100% know how everything trans related works when they've never done any real research or asked someone who is trans, and it shows. In that conversation, trans people had to steep themselves in someone saying that they shouldn't transition, that their experiences of knowing when they were trans aren't valid all while someone is posting links from full-on alt-right sources like TheFederalist to discredit trans people further.
It also almost always falls on trans people to dive into these topics where people are treating us like garbage and gently nudge people the right way. We're not allowed to show the level of pain that interactions with transphobic people can have, and if we ever get fed up we get tired lines of "You're pushing them to the alt-right" as if we're the ones responsible for how bigoted people treat us.
I sincerely do try my best to educate people when I feel like I can, but it's frustrating, it's difficult and it's not as simple as just ignoring people who don't want to get better as seeing so much hatred and dismissal directed at you for just existing eats at you.
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