.................El Oshcuro is David Oshry who runs New Blood Games...
so this involves other throwback FPS games now?
edit: apparently hes still cool?
.................El Oshcuro is David Oshry who runs New Blood Games...
.................El Oshcuro is David Oshry who runs New Blood Games...
For certain the stuff that has been said by some of the devs has been truly awful and condemnable. But the amount of "eat shit and die" style posts in this thread is kind of worrisome for a place that about discussing games. People can keep yelling at each other that being offensive about offensive stuff is okay but it certainly makes people with different opinions listening to you way less likely.
It's not so much the separating the author from the art. It's more about the "stupid outrage bullshit" quote that stuck out to me. As far as separating artist from art, we all played Bloodborne right? I think a lot of people do that, quite often - whether we like it or not.
I just checked that post. Whew. Followed the dude since the return of the Rise of the Triad.Someone showed him the incriminating stuff on Twitter and he called it the garbage it is. Oshry is alright.
I doubt most people even know. I wouldn't have known if I didn't use this forum and only mentioned it to a friend who was interested. Have any news outlets mentioned it yet?
Lmao honestly wouldn't surprise me if the supposed context would make things worse somehow.
"Both sides boogie"? Don't be ridiculous, this thread has quickly evolved into a dog pile instead of properly discussing the issue at hand. If you want to keep it that way you can go to Twitter; we don't need a forum for that. This thread pretty much hits the nail regarding this matter: https://www.resetera.com/threads/it...-thing-calmly-in-the-gaming-community.135450/
Discussing the issue calmly implies we should give considered thought beyond "fuck you". These people have shit their load on discord, they're "debate me" archetypes so there's no value in your "please control your feelings" attempts at tone policing."Both sides boogie"? Don't be ridiculous, this thread has quickly evolved into a dog pile instead of properly discussing the issue at hand. If you want to keep it that way you can go to Twitter; we don't need a forum for that. This thread pretty much hits the nail regarding this matter: https://www.resetera.com/threads/it...-thing-calmly-in-the-gaming-community.135450/
Pls be decent to people who can't tolerate your very existence. How diplomatic of you."Both sides boogie"? Don't be ridiculous, this thread has quickly evolved into a dog pile instead of properly discussing the issue at hand. If you want to keep it that way you can go to Twitter; we don't need a forum for that. This thread pretty much hits the nail regarding this matter: https://www.resetera.com/threads/it...-thing-calmly-in-the-gaming-community.135450/
Your entire involvement in the thread has been a critical meta-commentary about how the people in it are speaking. What points relevant to the topic did you want to discuss?"Both sides boogie"? Don't be ridiculous, this thread has quickly evolved into a dog pile instead of properly discussing the issue at hand. If you want to keep it that way you can go to Twitter; we don't need a forum for that. This thread pretty much hits the nail regarding this matter: https://www.resetera.com/threads/it...-thing-calmly-in-the-gaming-community.135450/
I thought we learned after the whole Etika situationFor certain the stuff that has been said by some of the devs has been truly awful and condemnable. But the amount of "eat shit and die" style posts in this thread is kind of worrisome for a place that about discussing games. People can keep yelling at each other that being offensive about offensive stuff is okay but it certainly makes people with different opinions listening to you way less likely.
"Both sides boogie"? Don't be ridiculous, this thread has quickly evolved into a dog pile instead of properly discussing the issue at hand. If you want to keep it that way you can go to Twitter; we don't need a forum for that. This thread pretty much hits the nail regarding this matter: https://www.resetera.com/threads/it...-thing-calmly-in-the-gaming-community.135450/
No, a dog pile would be us telling people to go to Twitter/Steam/Discord and harass them."Both sides boogie"? Don't be ridiculous, this thread has quickly evolved into a dog pile instead of properly discussing the issue at hand. If you want to keep it that way you can go to Twitter; we don't need a forum for that. This thread pretty much hits the nail regarding this matter: https://www.resetera.com/threads/it...-thing-calmly-in-the-gaming-community.135450/
Care to elaborate?
I'm honestly surprised by this. https://www.polygon.com/2016/5/6/11...r-neutral-bathrooms-boss-key-cliff-bleszinski
Been waiting for some sensible statement, I guess it's silly to hold out any hope like that.
I'm honestly surprised by this. https://www.polygon.com/2016/5/6/11...r-neutral-bathrooms-boss-key-cliff-bleszinski
Though he does say in his tweet, that he can separate the art from the artist. In that sense it does seem like he thinks the discussion by devs to be questionable. But right after, he again tweets something that seems to make light of the situation. Come on Cliff, be better.
But those links don't make it seem like he was, rather the opposite. Supporting trans folk and calling out the racism, homophobia and misogyny in gaming. So his recent attitude definitely is news to me and it's disappointing.
But those links don't make it seem like he was, rather the opposite. Supporting trans folk and calling out the racism, homophobia and misogyny in gaming. So his recent attitude definitely is news to me and it's disappointing.
Is there a problem with separating the art from the artist?I love how he asks for more information and then immediately proceeds with "I'll ignore that and separate the art from the artist".
Like, what was even the point of the inquiry.
Is there a problem with separating the art from the artist?
Some people just want to be informed, doesn't mean they have to speak out against them. This is especially true for someone as well known as Cliff, he doesn't want to get caught up in some controversy when he just wanted to praise the game itself in the first place.
Then ignore the thread and move on.While I'm all in on discussing and scrutinizing the content of the actual games, I'm growing more and more tired of scrutinizing the beliefs or conduct or political stances of the people who makes or publishes the games. Specially when they are anonymous nobodies like in this case (it would be different if it was some celebrity that was generally followed as a role model by many people or something).
I'm sure there's plenty of awful people among those that produce many of the things I buy and consume: my groceries, my furniture, my clothing and of course my videogames.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
But don't see the point of giving them the attention here, because they happen to work making videogames.
I think it's very game related because the discussion happened in the official Discord channel.While I'm all in on discussing and scrutinizing the content of the actual games, I'm growing more and more tired of scrutinizing the beliefs or conduct or political stances of the people who makes or publishes the games. Specially when they are anonymous nobodies like in this case (it would be different if it was some celebrity that was generally followed as a role model by many people or something).
I'm sure there's plenty of awful people among those that produce many of the things I buy and consume: my groceries, my furniture, my clothing and of course my videogames.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
But don't see the point of giving them the attention here, because they happen to work making videogames.
Such an ignorant statement. The other people ARE often the reason for unhappiness when it comes to trans people. Of course people like him can't imagine how it would feel like to be forced to live a daily life according to others' standards, relatives, friends and colleagues included, and having them dictate what he can be and wear. I bet he hasn't ever been threatened with violence just for being what he is, when he's been out in public.
Maybe stop considering transphobia as something that's nothing more than a "belief or conduct or political stance". It's bigotry. It's not worth debating if what they said is wrong.While I'm all in on discussing and scrutinizing the content of the actual games, I'm growing more and more tired of scrutinizing the beliefs or conduct or political stances of the people who makes or publishes the games. Specially when they are anonymous nobodies like in this case (it would be different if it was some celebrity that was generally followed as a role model by many people or something).
I'm sure there's plenty of awful people among those that produce many of the things I buy and consume: my groceries, my furniture, my clothing and of course my videogames.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
But don't see the point of giving them the attention here, because they happen to work making videogames.
While I'm all in on discussing and scrutinizing the content of the actual games, I'm growing more and more tired of scrutinizing the beliefs or conduct or political stances of the people who makes or publishes the games. Specially when they are anonymous nobodies like in this case (it would be different if it was some celebrity that was generally followed as a role model by many people or something).
I'm sure there's plenty of awful people among those that produce many of the things I buy and consume: my groceries, my furniture, my clothing and of course my videogames.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
But don't see the point of giving them the attention here, because they happen to work making videogames.
Don't you feel this is a bit extreme?The people behind your groceries, furniture, clothing and videogames as a rule of thumb do not use their platform to broadcast fascist talking points, though.
That's the problem here. If someone is a dipshit but keeps it to themselves, then that's whatever. But when they go on Twitter or Discord and start spreading propaganda, especially if they have a following, that's when things start becoming an issue. When people who have a platform - even if it may be small - are using it to instigate hate.
The radicalization of younger people, including and especially those that take their guns and start shooting up mosques or wal-marts, happens through the means of people using their platform to spread hate. Not just the fascist talking heads like your Shapiros or Crowders, but also the game devs in that Discord server.
Also, the existence and validity of trans people is not a "political stance", GTFO with that shite.
Don't you feel this is a bit extreme?
The views of the devs weren't violent or anything of the sort. Seems like you're taking a big leap there to group them all in with murderers.
Also, the existence and validity of trans people is not a "political stance", GTFO with that shite.
The people behind your groceries, furniture, clothing and videogames as a rule of thumb do not use their platform to broadcast fascist talking points, though.
That's the problem here. If someone is a dipshit but keeps it to themselves, then that's whatever. But when they go on Twitter or Discord and start spreading propaganda, especially if they have a following, that's when things start becoming an issue. When people who have a platform - even if it may be small - are using it to instigate hate.
The radicalization of younger people, including and especially those that take their guns and start shooting up mosques or wal-marts, happens through the means of people using their platform to spread hate. Not just the fascist talking heads like your Shapiros or Crowders, but also the game devs in that Discord server.
Also, the existence and validity of trans people is not a "political stance", GTFO with that shite.
But by labelling any disagreement to be hate you are preventing discussion. That kind of behaviour just has the opposite effect to what you seem to want as both sides just grow stronger in their own beliefs convinced the other has nothing of value to offer.Bigotry is hate, and hate leads to violence. Yes, the leap is big to group them with murderers, but we all need to stem the spread of hateful views like transphobia, lest more transphobic violence and crime occurs in society.
They're not, they're labelling transphobia as hate.But by labelling any disagreement to be hate you are preventing discussion. That kind of behaviour just has the opposite effect to what you seem to want as both sides just grow stronger in their own beliefs convinced the other has nothing of value to offer.
Really?I think it's even too far to label the statements that were made to be transphobic.
I think it's even too far to label the statements that were made to be transphobic.
Don't you feel this is a bit extreme?
The views of the devs weren't violent or anything of the sort. Seems like you're taking a big leap there to group them all in with murderers.
Well, it's quite likely that the people who make my groceries and furniture have a Twitter account. And if they are awful, I'm sure they will write awful things on their Twitter too.
I concede you the Discord thing, though. Actually, I recognize I'm a bit ignorant of that platform. Is it a central part of the experience of the game? What percentage of the players of the game will enter and read things there? Is it really relevant?
The conversation I read on this case seemed to me more a case of bigot people talking casually and, thus, showing their true awful selves, rather than a planned propaganda campaign. Of course I would think it would deserve more attention if it was the latter.
And please, don't interpret that I'm downplaying the importance of trans rights. When I used "political stance", I was broadening my argument to many other things where the same phenomenon of focusing on the anonymous producers happen. I also used "belief" and "conduct" in the same sentence, to be even more generic. I generally like to be as cold and aseptic as possible when reasoning (for the sake or science or someting :-)), and also English isn't my first (nor second!) language.
Dude, this isn't a "both side have a point" situation, one side is transphobic and one side isn't, it's not too difficult to get.But by labelling any disagreement to be hate you are preventing discussion. That kind of behaviour just has the opposite effect to what you seem to want as both sides just grow stronger in their own beliefs convinced the other has nothing of value to offer.
I think it's even too far to label the statements that were made to be transphobic.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
Other people are managing to get refunds despite having bought the game during early access.Well this coming out bums me out that I gave them money in early access and it's not refundable.
Actually managed to get a refund on this despite having it since it debuted in EA. Had to submit an actual ticket but they did end up refunding me.
The key words you missed there were "within feminism". You're absolutely right sexism is broader and can be done to anyone by anyone, but that poster was talking about the angle which feminism is coming at (which is focused squarely on women-oriented oppression).But that isn't what sexism actually means or is. I mean, you can redefine things to mean other things so your position makes sense for literally anything.
By the definition you quote there cannot be any sexism against people who do not conform to standard genders, which makes it a non-inclusive and gender normative definition designed to empower a certain group (females) at the expense of all others.
Sexism is discrimination based on sex - which can (as per the laws of reality) happen to any sex. It is not a card that one particular sex gets to hold onto and deny to any of the others while lording it over them.
As someone who is gender non conforming a lot of the feminism stuff is quite offensive and frankly narrow minded.
That isn't AT ALL what that poster was saying, even if they did completely misread your post. It barely feels like you're arguing in good faith here. Your response hardly seems to match what that person said.
But by labelling any disagreement to be hate you are preventing discussion.
Other people are managing to get refunds despite having bought the game during early access.