And please, don't interpret that I'm downplaying the importance of trans rights.
Its hard to do that when your position ultimately boils down to "I'm tired of people letting politics get in the way of games" + "they're not celebrities who cares"
And please, don't interpret that I'm downplaying the importance of trans rights.
The fact most gaming outlets haven't really reported any of this in the middle of August when nothing else is really going on is the weirdest part of this whole mess.Just Found One (and probably the only one)
Again, Even People Know They're not going boycott or something As long as the game is great.
Pretty sure it has more to do with that it's the weekend.The fact most gaming outlets haven't really reported any of this in the middle of August when nothing else is really going on is the weirdest part of this whole mess.
Here's the thing your first post in this thread was talking about how you're tired of the discussion about things like "this". You can't pretend you're not downplaying the significance of what we're discussing when your entrance into the conversation was basically complaining that we are discussing it. Also trying to be as cold as possible when discussing active bigotry towards towards transgender individuals is not like something to be proud of in the context of a discussion on a video game forumWell, it's quite likely that the people who make my groceries and furniture have a Twitter account. And if they are awful, I'm sure they will write awful things on their Twitter too.
I concede you the Discord thing, though. Actually, I recognize I'm a bit ignorant of that platform. Is it a central part of the experience of the game? What percentage of the players of the game will enter and read things there? Is it really relevant?
The conversation I read on this case seemed to me more a case of bigot people talking casually and, thus, showing their true awful selves, rather than a planned propaganda campaign. Of course I would think it would deserve more attention if it was the latter.
And please, don't interpret that I'm downplaying the importance of trans rights. When I used "political stance", I was broadening my argument to many other things where the same phenomenon of focusing on the anonymous producers happen. I also used "belief" and "conduct" in the same sentence, to be even more generic. I generally like to be as cold and aseptic as possible when reasoning (for the sake or science or someting :-)), and also English isn't my first (nor second!) language.
This broke on a late Friday afternoon. Give it until Monday (Tuesday at the latest) before claiming the gaming press is ignoring the story.The fact most gaming outlets haven't really reported any of this in the middle of August when nothing else is really going on is the weirdest part of this whole mess.
While I'm all in on discussing and scrutinizing the content of the actual games, I'm growing more and more tired of scrutinizing the beliefs or conduct or political stances of the people who makes or publishes the games. Specially when they are anonymous nobodies like in this case (it would be different if it was some celebrity that was generally followed as a role model by many people or something).
I'm sure there's plenty of awful people among those that produce many of the things I buy and consume: my groceries, my furniture, my clothing and of course my videogames.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
But don't see the point of giving them the attention here, because they happen to work making videogames.
I concede you the Discord thing, though. Actually, I recognize I'm a bit ignorant of that platform. Is it a central part of the experience of the game? What percentage of the players of the game will enter and read things there? Is it really relevant?
They typically stop at the words "trans people" and "suicide" and form the rest of the narrative from there.That stupid claim that trans commit suicide more often after surgery only exists because Transphobes can't read. It's simply not what the study says.
Quite the opposite, it recommends the physical transition, just that it isn't enough.
Wait why are people calling transphobic viewpoints political. People being dicks to folks like me ain't political it could be anyone your liberal neighbor your conservative grandma or your centrist brother. When misinformation spreads about trans people it's often used for convenience by people who want to solidify their views. In many cases being transgender disrupts the status quo of daily life and these people will just dig into the trenches even when presented by facts. It's why we have terfs and other hateful people still around because they just can't comprehend that I am a normal person living a fairly normal life with my two cats and occasionally sipping tea at my favorite cafe. Now I'm speaking for myself here these actions of these devs is hurtful and is problematic and not only were they transphobic but they also were also using misinformation about other topics unrelated to trans people like the anti vax movement. This kind of information is gross and these people need help pulling them out of this by not shifting the blame to politics today. Sure good legislation can help curb some of these issues. But awareness is so much more helpful in the grand scheme of things. I don't think I've ever replied to a thread so much as this one and it's surprising to me since I usually just lurk. That said don't be a dick or dismiss what actual people who have to put up with it in their daily lives because of this misinformation.
Actually the bathroom law got passed in the us so I can go to the ladies bathroom now. Although I had to fight for it at work because nobody realized it was now in effect had to go to hr about it. That said pretty much what I was getting at since we're dealing with a situation where your better off just talking to the hateful person for a period of 2 hours since that's actually the length of time it takes to make someone have a reasonable change in perspective. Its going to take alot of effort from allies and folks in our communities to just talk to these people and make sure they understand that what they know isn't actually correct or in most cases hurtful.Thanks for this! So many people seem invested in being oblivious to the idea that beliefs lead to action. Disenfranchised people wouldn't get angry at rhetoric like this if we didn't fundamentally know that it's shit like that that perpetuates bigoted oppression and violence. Violent bigots act out violence that is informed by their world view. Rapists, sexual abusers, anti-choice fanatics have a mindset informed by rhetoric about women being inferior/women not being entitled to bodily autonomy. Klan members have a mindset informed by white supremacist ideals. Anti-LGBTQ+ politicians and voters have a mindset informed by transphobia and homophobia. This relationship should be simple but again and again in cases like this we have people rushing in to try and convince the very targets of this bigoted rhetoric that it has zero impact and is seperate from having any influence on the wider oppression of marginalized people. This is not innocuous. It is not just a political belief. Hell even if you want to try and pigeon hole it as just a "political belief", what comes from people's political beliefs is action in how they vote for policies and politicians. Transgender people have to deal with insidious bathroom bills and are denied the opportunity to serve in the military because those who hold bigoted political beliefs vote in the monsters that act on that bigotry through policy. It astounds me that so many of those who claim to be allies to disenfranchised people and who find rhetoric like this disgusting don't seem to actually understand why it is disgusting and why it needs to be addressed when it pops up.
The fact most gaming outlets haven't really reported any of this in the middle of August when nothing else is really going on is the weirdest part of this whole mess.
I doubt much will happen.A pinned message from yesterday in the 3D Realms Discord says that a statement is being prepared:
They've been active in putting out the chatter about it when it's arisen since this kicked off. As others have said, with it being the weekend I imagine they're taking time to gather and assess.
I doubt much will happen.
The fact they're censoring discussion is a bad sign
This is the same Imran who's a user here, I think, and he's been in this thread and was quite active in the THQ Nordic threads.I was listening to the latest GI podcast today and in it Imran Khan made his dislike for what THQN did blatantly obvious. Now, I am wonder whether they will, alongside (hopefully) Kotaku, pick up on this story.
Unless they somehow rework everything for the consoles, don't. It handles like shit with a gamepad.I was planning on buying this game physically on PS4 or Switch. I'll just wait to get a cheap used copy so I can have my cake and eat it too.
This is the same Imran who's a user here, I think, and he's been in this thread and was quite active in the THQ Nordic threads.
He used to be ShockingAlberto.Wow! I remember a different name for that avatar back in the Gaf days. Thanks for making me cognizant of this.
Context! Witch hunt! Angry mob!
gamescon starts tomorrow.The fact most gaming outlets haven't really reported any of this in the middle of August when nothing else is really going on is the weirdest part of this whole mess.
I am all for criticizing the product and devs definitely should be held accountable but i am always against review bombing a product for anything other than the quality of said product as you are reviewing the product when you review something. You are not reviewing who made it as you are not reviewing the beliefs or ignorance of the dev.What really makes me mad is some members coming in and not only downplaying the things that devs did, they also get mad at the idea of review bombing the game or criticizing it.
Then if they get called out they start acting like they're the victim.
Is this shit for fucking real?
I am all for criticizing the product and devs definitely should be held accountable but i am always against review bombing a product for anything other than the quality of said product as you are reviewing the product when you review something. You are not reviewing who made it as you are not reviewing the beliefs or ignorance of the dev.
The problem is that some were deliberately saying not to review bomb when no one mentioned that they were going to review bomb. And then many of them downplayed the issues that the devs are saying in regards to transphobia and women.I am all for criticizing the product and devs definitely should be held accountable but i am always against review bombing a product for anything other than the quality of said product as you are reviewing the product when you review something. You are not reviewing who made it as you are not reviewing the beliefs or ignorance of the dev.
Jesus Fucking Christ....
I legit just thought "Oh, right, because moisturiser is so gay!" If it's a play on Olay, they're going to be wildly misunderstood, though tbh I don't think it is.
The problem is that some were deliberately saying not to review bomb when no one mentioned that they were going to review bomb. And then many of them downplayed the issues that the devs are saying in regards to transphobia and women.
They immediately come here to tell people off about review bombing and being mean to the devs and dismiss what terrible things the devs said.
That isn't right.
The media should definitely report on it much better a metal musician does something its out in dozen outlets within the hour same should happen to video game devs etc.Yeah, review bombing is in this sense is a failure of the games media - if the media reported on the hateful beliefs of the developers, then more people would know, and the need to review bomb to make people aware of those beliefs and to push people away from supporting the developers would be removed.
I legit just thought "Oh, right, because moisturiser is so gay!" If it's a play on Olay, they're going to be wildly misunderstood, though tbh I don't think it is.
I legit just thought "Oh, right, because moisturiser is so gay!" If it's a play on Olay, they're going to be wildly misunderstood, though tbh I don't think it is.
It's probably both. It's such a good game, i wish they hadn't filled it with this bullshit.
While I'm all in on discussing and scrutinizing the content of the actual games, I'm growing more and more tired of scrutinizing the beliefs or conduct or political stances of the people who makes or publishes the games. Specially when they are anonymous nobodies like in this case (it would be different if it was some celebrity that was generally followed as a role model by many people or something).
I'm sure there's plenty of awful people among those that produce many of the things I buy and consume: my groceries, my furniture, my clothing and of course my videogames.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. I do combat them, all at once, where it matters: in real politics. Participating in debates on general news sites or even twitter, going to demonstrations that matter, bringing up the important issues in conversations with friends and colleagues, behaving well as a good citizen, and, of course, voting the right parties in the successive elections.
But don't see the point of giving them the attention here, because they happen to work making videogames.