Is it better to be a rude-but-woke person, or a nice-but-ignorant person?

Is it better to be a rude-but-woke person, or a nice-but-ignorant person?


  • Total voters
    133
Status
Not open for further replies.

uncelestial

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,787
San Francisco, CA, USA
I am curious where people stand on this. I'm gonna try to illustrate this question with examples.

The Nice-But-Ignorant Example:

When it comes to politics, my in-laws are fairly clueless white people, but I generally get along with them because they really go out of their way to be nice, socialize with people of color, and more. But the finer points of modern inclusivity elude them. I suspect that it's stuff that if they actually got called out on by someone who they offended, they would be horrified and try to correct, but talking about things theoretically, they simply don't understand what the big deal is. Further, since they aren't the types to go trawling progressive forums and diving deep into Twitter threads about lived experiences, they view a lot of modern social rules as annoying tut-tutting from joyless scolds. The more recent the rule, the less likely they are to know it; they have defended singing songs by black artists "as they were written" (you understand?) at karaoke, and they are likely to presume Asians are first or second generation and will ask where their family is "from" (as I've seen). But they'll also watch their neighbors kids when the parents need to go to the hospital, or fly across the country to help my wife and I as new parents struggling with twin infants.

Pros:
- Friendly with everybody, treats everyone with a baseline of respect
- Goes out of their way for anybody who needs it

Cons:
- Out of touch and has no habits that would put them in touch
- Likey to hurt/offend someone soon

The Rude-But-Woke Example:

A phenomenon I see online is people who exercising their (earned! and deserved!) right to "punch up" at majority groups with truly hateful abandon. For example, an ex girlfriend of mine just generally calls men "trash," jokes that she's "a misandrist," and has even had her twitter account suspended for replying to a guy who argued with her with pictures of severed penises (!). There are large portions of the population who, privileged as they may be, are not treated with even basic respect, and this inhibits many social interactions from going in any sort of positive direction. Angry and hard to socialize with, and cynical about people and the world, they rage about power imbalance and how they "hate white people" and "cishets" so forth. I recall it being quite a lonely and isolated time when we were together. But one thing they would never do is cross a trans person or a queer person or a woman, or fail to listen to (and truly try to empathize with the experiences of) a person of color. My ex's best friend is in fact a trans woman and she is constantly retweeting her perspectives. If you are of these marginalized groups, there is always time to spare to hear what you have to say.

Pros:
- Friendly to the marginalized, treats them with a huge amount of respect
- Goes out of their way for the marginalized

Cons:
- Not many friends IRL; generally angry/caustic and hard to get along with
- If you're not in a marginalized group, your feelings of offense do not matter to them
 

Gundam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,924
I hate that they make these classes have drawbacks

Also I can't in good faith vote for an option that would make me self-label as "woke"
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,598
Edmonton
'Rude-but-woke' is pretty much your textbook tumblr user, so I cannot in good conscience vote for anything but ignorance if I have to pair them that way.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,087
It doesn't have to be a binary choice. You can disagree without being aggressive about it. You can be persuasive without being confrontational.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,928
Actually, given your weirdly absolute descriptions of the two types... I'm out. This is an incredibly stupid hypothetical.
 

Baconmonk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
5,248
Im neither one of them. I'm nice and ignorant toward folks I don't know, and try to be generally nice toward everyone until proven otherwise.

However a friend who decides to go down the wrong youtube hole and spreads their shitty views? I'll be plenty rude to them if need be. It's a sliding scale depending on the situation and how close I am to the person.

I'm not out there confronting random people at the grocery store, which is what rude and woke seems to be hinting towards. I also don't think being 'rude' is a good way to change anyone's opinion, but is a good way to start an argument.
 

Lesath

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,089
I wish I could say I was surprised by these results, but I'm not. Really encapsulates the whole reason certain minority communities have retreated from Era.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
16,396
I'm not going to tone police people from marginalized identities who are lashing out at a world that's unfair to them. I do think context matters though, and the intersection of identities. A white woman can be racist to a black man, an able bodied middle class person can be ableist towards a disabled upper class person, etc. You get the idea. Generally speaking I don't care if people are angry in their personal lives at broad, privileged groups, although it can certainly become uncomfortable if they're grilling someone specifically who hasn't done anything wrong.

Overall I'm gonna side with the angry people who are upset at unfair treatment towards them except in extreme fringe cases, I guess?

But yeah, I think this is way too binary of a poll and I don't feel comfortable answering it.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,559
If we’re talking social discourse and that maybe having some productive consequences, then who really cares how nice someone is if they have nothing relevant to say?
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,399
Basically


If you're finding you have to be extremely rude to get a point across. There's very little chance that person is going to listen to you anyway. And a good chance it might backfire.

The context is really important here though.

I'm thinking within bounds of talking to a friend, relative, acquaintance about x subject. Driving everyone away with toxic angry behavior is not a healthy way to live, and bullying someone into your beliefs or ideals doesn't work on the whole.

But yea this really is a false dilemma
 
Last edited:

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,514
Portland, OR

Twinsun

Member
Nov 2, 2017
802
Your description of a "woke" person sounds pretty ignorant to me, and not someone I would be able to stand being around, so I guess the other option.
 

Raccoon

Member
May 31, 2019
3,314
I switched to rude because I’m worried about the implications of voting for ignorance

thanks for the false dilemma op lol
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
16,396
On a side note, I don't see as much broad "men are trash" statements anymore because indeed there is greater awareness of intersectional identity than a simple man/woman binary, and frankly speaking it's a statement you see from TERFs as a way to speak out of the side of their mouth, so I see less intersectional feminists using it.

That isn't to say patriarchy and misogyny aren't suffocating systematic issues that enable a great deal of oppression and violence, but it certainly has to be handled with nuance.
 

Matthew77

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
3,568
Massachusetts
Well, all I have to say is if you live your whole life being told your a sin, mental, not real to the point where they are trying to make legislation against you, you will probably as I am be pretty angry and not fucking nice about it.

Of course who calls themselves woke?

But yeah, as I have said being passive and nice is why the right keeps winning, and I don’t doubt those saying you should be nice or prefer pleasant are the Same people that would look the other way if trump started rounding people like me up.

Also find the amount of people talking about Americans not standing up or mass protesting don’t seem to get that’s what the passive path gets you.

But yeah, fuck this question and those who put decorum before human rights and dignity.
 
OP
OP
uncelestial

uncelestial

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,787
San Francisco, CA, USA
I switched to rude because I’m worried about the implications of voting for ignorance

thanks for the false dilemma op lol

Okay, but I still think your op is framed as a false dilemma and robs any resulting conversation of much-needed nuance and contrasts.
I'm sorry. I do actually know these people so for me this is a question I struggle with. If you can find a pathway to express the nuance you're describing I'd truly love to hear it.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,788
what's better
a progressive who eats babies during his free time
or
a nazi who saves cute puppies every day
 

Eeyore

Member
Dec 13, 2019
1,258
People use woke now to mean people who act progressive to gain 'points'. If that's the definition, it's better to be sincere and kind. Always.
 

Asakim

Member
Oct 27, 2017
834
Nice but ignorant is missing an important word. It should be "Nice but willfully ignorant". They're dumb and they don't want to be smartened up. They want to stay dumb because life is a lot nicer if you don't have to pay attention to shit that doesn't affect you.

Rude but woke should be "Justifiably rude but aware". They know what's going on. They see so many people ignoring it. This upsets them greatly so they start to scream and break shit. If enough people start screaming and breaking shit then things start to get done to appease those people.

I'd rather be rude but woke so I can at least help get something done rather than just looking out for myself.
 

coconut milk

Member
Jan 17, 2018
3,561
if they were actually nice they wouldn't be ignorant

*hits blunt*

I tend to get along with rude-but-woke people far more anyways.
 

Unknownlight

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,960
Assuming that "nice-but-woke" is the ideal, it's easier to transition a "nice-but-ignorant" to that state than a "rude-but-woke".

(I'm also assuming that "nice" means "empathetic", not just someone who doesn't want to make waves. Willfully ignorant is something else entirely.)

Everyone starts out ignorant of issues that don't directly affect them. They learn when they're taught. If you properly explain to a good person why something they said hurt someone's feelings (without being mean/aggressive/hurting their feelings in turn), then they learn for next time.
 

Ruruja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,657
I voted nice-but-ignorant because I'd like to believe an ignorant person can be educated and learn to be 'woke'. That's kinda what being 'ignorant' means. Then they'd be nice and woke.

A rude but woke person will always be rude.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.