I really hope in the sequel they either add 18 to 17's moveset or remove him from her's. I feel like 17 getting to be his own character and Kefla being snubbed are the biggest things that bug me with this game.
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Is it finally time to talk about Dragon Ball FighterZ atrocious female representation?
- Thread starter Fj0823
- Start date
Yeah I'd kill for Chichi to be in. If Krillin can be in I think chichi should be able to as well.
I'd also love a gimmick of Bulma a la Tron Bonne almost of using a mech or having a really cool capsule gimmick to use.
Also Future Mai from Future Trunk's timeline could be neat.
Then again at this point Launch having two forms to switch from to confuse your opponents would be neat too.
I'll take literally anything if it means more DB Ladies.
I'd also love a gimmick of Bulma a la Tron Bonne almost of using a mech or having a really cool capsule gimmick to use.
Also Future Mai from Future Trunk's timeline could be neat.
Then again at this point Launch having two forms to switch from to confuse your opponents would be neat too.
I'll take literally anything if it means more DB Ladies.
Oh, I didn't know they added a lone 17. Yeah that's weird. They should have just made him a mirror of 18, in that she would assist him if you selected him and vice versa if you select her. Though the idea is two separate. Having him as a long character AND existing as a second for 18 feels unplanned and messy.
And again, I know nothing about super, except I didn't like what I watched in the first 20 something episodes.
I agree, Chi Chi would have been fine for me. Bulma too. But they'd kind of be gimmick characters alongside the usual z fighters since they don't actually fight in Dragon Ball Z, but again, I'd be fine with them making up moveset, they're still important characters.
And there in lies the problem, what you watched were the movie recaps. Jump to Episode 28 onwards for the new stuff.
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The first 26 episodes of Super are an extremely EXTREMELY bad retelling of the 2 canon movies.
It picks up considerably after that. And yes. 17 becomes a very prominent character.
I'll say as much as the 17 thing pisses me off I don't hate the character it was just not handled the best way it could have been.
It was unplanned and messy. No one working on the game knew he would ever be relevant again, especially not so soon, so they thought having them team up would be the only way to represent him.
It sucks that Super was still stuck in the Goku and Vegeta show for so long, this game really would have benefitted from the series using more of its cast in the parts the devs had to work with.
The thing that bugs me the most is why was 17 apparently the "must include as soon as possible" character.
Jiren I get because he's the final boss but they couldn't wait long enough for 17 to show everything he does(including new moves with 18 so even more bull that he's by himself).
But no it's to soon for Caulifla or Kefla, there fans have to be patient and hope Arc puts them in the sequel.
I'm also hoping they ditch the "recreate everything one for one" aspect in the sequel because frankly I think it hurts more then it helps.
The only thing I can think of is that they might see Kefla as a much bigger draw in a sequel instead of just a season pass. Otherwise I have no idea why she isn't in yet.
And yeah, I agree on the moveset stuff. It's cool for some characters, but it holds back more of them. Movesets are something Arcsys are fantastic at and they don't get to go all out like this.
Most of the women on the series completely gave up in their fighting career to become Leech housewives of their husband or had their incoming from their rich dads, specially 18 to hurry krillin get a better job (wtf).
So yes, blame the author for that mess
Won't be surprised if kefla became a housewife too if she married the small guy
So yes, blame the author for that mess
Won't be surprised if kefla became a housewife too if she married the small guy
Personally, I'd say Super's retelling of Beerus' introduction/Bulma's party was considerably better than the movie version. Never saw the Frieza movie, so can't comment on the changes there.The first 26 episodes of Super are an extremely EXTREMELY bad retelling of the 2 canon movies.
It picks up considerably after that. And yes. 17 becomes a very prominent character.
Pretty sure nothing's pointing to Cabba marrying either Caulifla or Kale, let alone both of them fused.
Yeah, no thanks. This is one of the aspects that set this game apart from both other licensed fighting games and other Dragon Ball games. This game is incredibly unique because of ASW's attention to detail, and ditching that just to let two or three c-listers get into the game is a horrible trade.
You know it's entirely possible to do this and still allow original moves right? Look at Smash.
Or any of Arc's other licensed fighters.
But no you're right allowing more women and unique fighters to be in the game at the cost of going "oh hey I recognize that" for a characters light down tilt is just so horrible. What was I thinking.
Who want's this?
Pffft. What was Arc thinking letting a popular character fight when they didn't in there home game? Who want's that?
Thank goodness Arc learned from that horrible mistake.
Also, in what world is Nappa, 16, and Ginyu considered A class?
It's almost as if DBFZ is getting different treatment from the other games ASW has worked on and attention to detail is more important to them this time around because everybody and their mother has taken creative liberties with DB games before.
Also nice subtle "you're a misogynist" drag. If attention to detail means less women, that's not exactly ASW's fault, now is it?
TBF, you named probably the three most unique characters in FighterZ. They're in the same category as Videl in that they don't really contribute enough to be made characters in their own right, but they can be interpreted interestingly to create archtypes that the other characters don't really fit into.
Also I'd argue Ginyu if anything is a B-lister, considering he's one of the few villains that actually nearly beat Goku in Z.
Actually it kinda is since there most likely the ones choosing attention to detail over more female fighters. Since as I pointed out before it's hard for me to think it's Shueisha or whoever when stuff like Fusions, Heroes, and Xenoverse exist.
So yeah they, and apparently you, think that this absurd level of authenticity is worth more then having more female characters in the game.
So you don't mind them bending the rules in this particular instance to justify these characters? Nice double standard.
Ginyu fighting with his squad is ok despite never doing that in canon but Dende forbid we let Chi-Chi fight because we might have to slap a jetpack on her.
So did Android 19 and he's universal consider D list.
And if B-list fodder can be considered 'unique', the same holds true for lesser known female characters.
Goku, Gohan and Vegeta married into wealth tho. Clearly the three of them are leeches.
I mean to be fair Goku has a job now and if we go by Online Gohan becomes a writer/professor.
Vegeta though, yeah he is a mooch who's job is to just stand there and look pretty.
It doesn't have to be one way or the other. Someone like Cell shines with the referenced attacks, but all the Gokus and Vegetas are bland, Bardock's moveset is especially forgettable.
I disagree on Arcsys being to blame though, the roster choices don't seem any different from the typical Bandai Namco DB game(A quick look online shows me the first Xenoverse only had 18 and Videl before adding Pan and Towa as DLC), just with far less characters making those issues that have always been there stand out even more.
Bandai Namco has been abysmal with representing women in DB games.
Fair. Xenoverse has had more time so it is a little unfair in that comparison.
At the same time Arc had more to work with at the time of FighterZ and it's DLC development which makes the omission of Kefla weird to me.
Except they didn't. Unless you expected them to throw what was undoubtedly months and maybe years of planning out the window, which is just unfeasible in game dev, they couldn't just toss Kefla in out of nowhere. 17 barely barely squeaked by because he was introduced very early in the arc, so they probably added him to the roster and released him last because they needed the most time to prep, and needed to wait for material. Even then, imo, they dropped the ball with pulling material from the anime. He does a lot of cool stuff I think they just didn't have time to wait for.
There's no excuse for season two, of course.
I'm primarily talking Season 2.
I can understand it not happening at first if they were just that determined to not rock the boat at all. Though I still disagree with that decision and want Chi-Chi.
I think Chi-Chi sucks as a character in every respect, so I don't lament her loss. :P
Bulma, though. ):
But yeah fair enough. Just wanted to be sure.
I just like her more then most people and liked the moves they gave her in Super Dragon Ball Z.
Bulma would be awesome too though.
Are you sure about that one?
Definitely surprised Kale/Kefla didn't get in though.
As fun as it is to watch someone good play him, it is amusing that Ginyu never coordinated with his squad that way during combat in the show and actually got pissed back when Jeice butted in on his fight with Goku.
Kale would've meant three Brolys (though indeed they're fine with plenty of Gokus and Vegetas). Caulifla seemed more probable if it wasn't going to be Kefla.
And 18 is known to constantly bring money home (even if Krillin has a job) and still fights, in fact 18 was shown to scold Krillin for slacking on his training and she was the one to put him in shape for the TOP.
Yeah, I imagined Kale/Kefla being a tag team and then maybe fusing for a super. Or just having Caulifla be the fighter. I don't think they would've added just Kale or just Kefla.
It's a question of what's going to sell more DLC. Ribrianne or Jiren? Kale/Caulifla/Kefla or SSBSSGSSSGHAHSSS Govegeta? That's really all there is to it. Caulifla and Kale will definitely make it in at some point, it's just that they haven't had a chance because they're getting the top sellers out of the way.
You really think they wouldn't sell as much as fucking Cooler?
Or GT Goku?
Or fuck, you really think there was so much demand for base Goku and Vegeta it was worth giving them the shaft?
I also know it's hypocritical for me to say this but if that was the case in what scenario in choosing female characters does Videl take priority?
Oh and that one villain from that movie twenty years ago goodness knows they need to capitalize on him!
I am so fucking tired of hearing "they'll get in....eventually." Because I've been hearing that since before Season 1.
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I don't know where I said that, you must have me confused with somebody else. Not only do I really want Chi Chi (honestly you fly so little in FighterZ that you wouldn't even need a jetpack), but I also didn't say that you couldn't adapt the source material to create a unique playstyle. 16 isn't a grappler, Gohan doesn't base his strength in gradual power ups, and Frieza doesn't use his charge slam at 50% power.
It also isn't an either-or. Like I've said 60,000 times at this point, there are more than enough female characters in DB that actually have the source material needed for a FighterZ-quality character to not have to bother worrying about fucking Chronoa or Arale.
As much as I hate her, she adds both body diversity and moveset diversity to a roster full of adult Saiyans, so she's a good choice I guess.
Yes, Cooler would absolutely outsell any female in the franchise outside of maybe Kefla. GT Goku, I couldn't say, but it's probably ASW trying to reach the SSJ4 fans and the DB fans with one character (and sorta half-assing both). Baseku and Basegeta are definitely cheap characters to pad out a $35 season pass without actually having to make 8 characters from scratch.
I also can't answer that Videl question but it was certainly a huge missed opportunity to launch the two strongest new ToP fighters as an opener to SP2. I like Videl a lot (especially after actually trying her), but Kefla is kinda a higher priority than her.
I'm on board with lamenting no Kefla, but I can't co-sign on the Cooler disrespect either (lots of fun in how they conveyed his personality as a villain and one of the few DLC characters I've enjoyed playing as much as characters from the base roster, and the TFS take on his debut movie guaranteed plenty of interest). Even though I like Videl, I do agree that Kefla should've been given priority as the S2 opener alongside Jiren yes.
Yeah heaven forbid we do something fun and creative.
As far as people in this thread have been telling ne there's no women in this game because of the source material so who are these "more then enough" you're talking about? I'm curious.
I'm sorry but if there's any character I'm giving the boot besides base Goku and Vegeta it's Cooler.
Doesn't make much sense to me, particularly when he still brings more to the table than either of those (and that's with acknowledging Kaioken as an interesting super in its implementation and liking the ground ki blasts into dive kick, not all that much to say about Base Vegeta beyond his OTG grab and the loops).
EDIT: If I were to focus on characters I personally don't like, Gotenks would've been nuked from orbit (don't care that he's not DLC).
EDIT: If I were to focus on characters I personally don't like, Gotenks would've been nuked from orbit (don't care that he's not DLC).
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Honestly. I frankly don't care what his move set is Cooler is a nothing character to me. and he's not exactly someone I see getting a lot of love in the fandom. If someone's talking about movie villains it's usually Broly or Jamemba.
I'm not against him getting in but if I were to make room he's the one I'd give the boot if we're talking solely about DLC. I assume Base Goku and Vegeta are easier but I'd ditch them first but if that seriously wasn't an option Cooler is next.
I'd frankly ditch 17 too but I feel like more people would complain about that.
Yes? Being a male power fantasy or being written by a man is no excuse when other series in the same genre still have better female representation.
Second. It's hard to give this excuse any sort of merit when the supposed "male power fantasy" HAS female characters. There just not using them.
There's not really all that much depth to DB villains in general, with it usually coming down to who puts on a better show/has a more interesting background (Kid Buu is pretty much the only one I'd consider a nothing character of those here now really, well him and Jiren even if he's more of an antagonist than a proper villain). I literally never even heard of Janemba before calls online for him to get into this game (still don't even know which movie he's from).
It's nothing personal it's just he's low on my totem poll of DB villains. I'd sooner put Android 13.
Janemba is from Fusion Reborn. Fun movie.
But why should it have to? Thus the question of tokenism, do you want representation or lip service? Is the real issue DBZ characters created by a man or underrepresentation of woman as creatives in the anime industry?Honestly. I frankly don't care what his move set is Cooler is a nothing character to me. and he's not exactly someone I see getting a lot of love in the fandom. If someone's talking about movie villains it's usually Broly or Jamemba.
I'm not against him getting in but if I were to make room he's the one I'd give the boot if we're talking solely about DLC. I assume Base Goku and Vegeta are easier but I'd ditch them first but if that seriously wasn't an option Cooler is next.
I'd frankly ditch 17 too but I feel like more people would complain about that.
Yes? Being a male power fantasy or being written by a man is no excuse when other series in the same genre still have better female representation.
Second. It's hard to give this excuse any sort of merit when the supposed "male power fantasy" HAS female characters. There just not using them.