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Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,375
I find it more weird there is no representation from early Dragon Ball.
No Piccolo Daimao, Pilaf Crew, Tao Pai Pai or anything.
They even put in non canon GT Goku over OG Dragon Ball Goku!
It's disappointing but looking at the the roster they went for the more iconic/popular characters. Contrary to what some people might think the "Z" portion isn't only the more popular part in the west but also in Japan.

GT on the other hand while not being popular story wise has some strong merchandise sales. SS4 for example is extremely popular when it comes to figures.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
This is a problem tied to the manga, not the game.

And I'm sorry but the bunch of female fighters from Super are far from being "iconic" enough to absolutely be on the roster. People should wish this game to have as many iconic characters as possible, and not include characters just because of gender or skin color.

Also I don't see where Android 21 is more fanservice than Kefla for example.
Oh yeah can't waste space for the first prominent female characters in the series in who knows how long.

We need that space for the two decade old Majin Buu knock off, Green Goku, normal Goku, and Goku from GT.
 

Trim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
535
Oh yeah can't waste space for the first prominent female characters in the series in who knows how long.

We need that space for the two decade old Majin Buu knock off, Green Goku, normal Goku, and Goku from GT.
Looks like you are strongly rooting for Caulifla, will it change anything if she is added ? I don't think so.

And I instit, she is not a major character in the DB universe, unless you started to watch the series with Super (and still). Character like Mr Satan orYajirobe are way more iconic than her.

Again, stop rooting for female character simply because they are female.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Looks like you are strongly rooting for Caulifla, will it change anything if she is added ? I don't think so.

And I instit, she is not a major character in the DB universe, unless you started to watch the series with Super (and still). Character like Mr Satan orYajirobe are way more iconic than her.

Again, stop rooting for female character simply because they are female.
Are you seriously saying fucking Yajirobe should be in before Caulifla?

Because I don't feel like it's a bold thing to say she's probably more important then him especially since even by early Dragon Ball standards he's barley important.

And what the fuck is wrong with wanting more fighters that are female in a roster that is severally lacking them?

Yeah Caulifla is female, that's a bonus on top of liking the character. Maybe you should consider why you're trying so hard to justify why they shouldn't get in the roster.
 

crpj31

Member
Dec 13, 2017
559
Dragon Ball is a series that are based in a manga from the 1984-95. What do you expect? Dragon Ball Super is basically a survival mode where the story is minimal then fights fights and more fights. The last saga with huge story was Freeza. Cell saga was basically a "here comes a new chalenger" thing. There are a lot of non female characters that don't appear anymore (Yajirobe, Karin, Chaos, Kaioh ).
And the most important female character is Bulma that never fighted. So what do you expect? Pan?
Is Pan or Caulifla more iconic than Kame, Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao, Dr. Gero, Mr. Satan, Kaiohshin, Dabura or even Goten or ChibiTrunks?
 
OP
OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,637
Costa Rica
Dragon Ball is a series that are based in a manga from the 1984-95. What do you expect? Dragon Ball Super is basically a survival mode where the story is minimal then fights fights and more fights. The last saga with huge story was Freeza. Cell saga was basically a "here comes a new chalenger" thing. There are a lot of non female characters that don't appear anymore (Yajirobe, Karin, Chaos, Kaioh ).
And the most important female character is Bulma that never fighted. So what do you expect? Pan?

Is Pan or Caulifla more iconic than Kame, Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao, Dr. Gero, Mr. Satan, Kaiohshin, Dabura or even Goten or ChibiTrunks?
Dragon Ball is a series that are based in a manga from the 1984-95. What do you expect? Dragon Ball Super is basically a survival mode where the story is minimal then fights fights and more fights. The last saga with huge story was Freeza. Cell saga was basically a "here comes a new chalenger" thing. There are a lot of non female characters that don't appear anymore (Yajirobe, Karin, Chaos, Kaioh ).
And the most important female character is Bulma that never fighted. So what do you expect? Pan?
Is Pan or Caulifla more iconic than Kame, Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao, Dr. Gero, Mr. Satan, Kaiohshin, Dabura or even Goten or ChibiTrunks?

Looking at the character request survey. Yes they fucking are.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Dragon Ball is a series that are based in a manga from the 1984-95. What do you expect? Dragon Ball Super is basically a survival mode where the story is minimal then fights fights and more fights. The last saga with huge story was Freeza. Cell saga was basically a "here comes a new chalenger" thing. There are a lot of non female characters that don't appear anymore (Yajirobe, Karin, Chaos, Kaioh ).
And the most important female character is Bulma that never fighted. So what do you expect? Pan?
Is Pan or Caulifla more iconic than Kame, Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao, Dr. Gero, Mr. Satan, Kaiohshin, Dabura or even Goten or ChibiTrunks?
Would you seriously want those characters vs Caulifla?

Also its amazing that apparently not having any worthwhile female characters are Dragon Ball games still have more female fighters.

Must be fucking magic I guess.
 

Maligna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,802
Canada
I kinda wish I could rewrite history so that Ranfan from Dragonball reappeared in Z as a serious fighter and joined the other earth warriors.
hqdefault.jpg

(They should do a sequel to the "Reincarnated as Yamcha" manga using this premise. Someone comes back as Ranfan and vows to train enough to help the Z Warriors)
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
So we've moved from "they didn't have enough time" to "they're saving them for the sequel because it won't be big enough as DLC" to "no one likes those characters where's Yajirobe."

Wonder what's next?
 

crpj31

Member
Dec 13, 2017
559
Would you seriously want those characters vs Caulifla?

Also its amazing that apparently not having any worthwhile female characters are Dragon Ball games still have more female fighters.

Must be fucking magic I guess.

Instead of 5 Gokus and 3 Vegetas, yeah. There are enough saiyans in the game. And yes I would love to play as Tao Pai Pai, Kame, Satan or Dabura.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,303
"Not including women is more respectful then actually acknowledging they exist."

That is certainly a take I'll give you that.

Once again I think you are vastly overestimating how many people will care if the characters aren't a one for one. I don't care if Kefla's low jab isn't taken shot for shot from the anime.

This could have been a chance to have Caulifla with Kale as an assist and it would have been fine. But no GT Goku.

Again stuff like Heroes, Xenoverse, the mobile games, and several previous DB games did just fine while taking some liberties.

Persona 4 Arena was great and extremely creative in its choices taken with the characters.

I like Ribrianne she's perfect base roster material.
If that's what you took out of my statement then yeah I'm done here. God bless you but you're just not getting it because it differs from you opinion. You're not looking for a serious talk on this but just to rant because its not what you think. You can do that, me nah I have discussions and this ain't it.

Lastly nah, the producer has referenced the U6 Saiyans in multiple interviews to the point where she related herself to Caulifla. She's just not in for reasons you're just not getting pages into this thread still.

Since this has been going around in circles I'm done lol. Outty 5000.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I think Piccolo Daimao, Tao Pai Pai or Mr Satan would be much more interesting to play as than Caulifla.
Tai Pai Pai is lterally an assassin with KILL YOU written on his back. He's the original BAD MAN.
I would be fine with Tao actually. I was referring more to Gero or the fucking Supreme Kai.

Like that's who that person thinks should get in instead of any new women?
So you agree with original Vegeta as a different character?
goalposts.jpg

If that's what you took out of my statement then yeah I'm done here. God bless you but you're just not getting it because it differs from you opinion. You're not looking for a serious talk on this but just to rant because its not what you think. You can do that, me nah I have discussions and this ain't it.

Lastly nah, the producer has referenced the U6 Saiyans in multiple interviews to the point where she related herself to Caulifla. She's just not in for reasons you're just not getting pages into this thread still.

Since this has been going around in circles I'm done lol. Outty 5000.
I'm sure there fine people. Still think they made some BS choices.
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
It's even more humorous because there's like, 8 Gokus or something

Shit is hilarious
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,177
The roster is an utter mess to be honest.
I would take out a least half the Gokus and add in basically anyone else.

Its bafling to me. Do people really want that many Goku variations?
 

crpj31

Member
Dec 13, 2017
559
I would be fine with Tao actually. I was referring more to Gero or the fucking Supreme Kai.

Like that's who that person thinks should get in instead of any new women?

goalposts.jpg


I'm sure there fine people. Still think they made some BS choices.

You told about character request surveys.
Wasn't original Vegeta a top request from japanese players?
But ok, so tell me 5 female fighters in the series that aren't in the game and were really important in the series instead the ones that I said before.
 

artemis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,635
Sorry is she not a vital part of Broly's arc and has an arc of her own as well?

Does she not have ano important role in the story and is she not an active party by the end of the movie?

Let's compare what she does in the Broly movie to Namek Bulma,or Buu Bulma?

Yeah.

This thread insistence on downplaying every female character recently introduced is a sight to behold
That's major character to you? Oh boy..
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
You told about character request surveys.
Wasn't original Vegeta a top request from japanese players?
But ok, so tell me 5 female fighters in the series that aren't in the game and were really important in the series instead the ones that I said before.
I wasn't the one who brought up the survey but since you asked look for yourself.
hhe5uqzrzhl11.jpg

Also most of the female cast is more important the Yajirobe, Kame is more or less dead, Goten and Trunks are already in as Gotenks compare to the female characters who have less then that.

I frankly don't know what you have against women fighters.
 

Trim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
535
Hot damn would you look at that goalpost it is flying across the field!
Pointing such fact is a goalpost for you ?

Do you realise that this show is for kids ? Dou you understand that those kids watching Super today weren't even born wen GT ended ? Don't you see that those kids are heavily influenced by what is showcased to them today ? Do you realise that those kids are the ones bothering with this kind of survey ?
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
The roster is an utter mess to be honest.
I would take out a least half the Gokus and add in basically anyone else.

Its bafling to me. Do people really want that many Goku variations?
Goku, vegeta and broly are like mk ninjas and street fighter shotos

The answer is yes and more than any other character you like
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Pointing such fact is a goalpost for you ?

Do you realise that this show is for kids ? Dou you understand that those kids watching Super today weren't even born wen GT ended ? Don't you see that those kids are heavily influenced by what is showcased to them today ? Do you realise that those kids are the ones bothering with this kind of survey ?
Yeah all those kids voting for Raditz, Janemba, and SSJ4 Gogeta.

Clearly no one could actually like Kefla and such.

Why are you so obsessed with downplaying this character? Does it offend you that people want her in the game? Recency bias or no the fact of the matter is they are in fact popular and you're just gonna have to get over it.
 
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OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,637
Costa Rica
Pointing such fact is a goalpost for you ?

Do you realise that this show is for kids ? Dou you understand that those kids watching Super today weren't even born wen GT ended ? Don't you see that those kids are heavily influenced by what is showcased to them today ? Do you realise that those kids are the ones bothering with this kind of survey ?

It is hilarious goalposting when you consider

A) Super ended a year ago
B) Super made DB more profitable than One Piece. In fact it catapulted the franchise back into being the top grossing TOEI franchise
C) THERE WERE FUCKING MALE SUPER CHARACTERS IN THE BASE GAME
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,439
They gave Android 16 a full moveset and you're all telling me they couldn't have had Android 18, who had fought the most of any of the Androids prior to Super, couldn't have had her own moveset that didn't involve 17? Or that Kefla, who was the subject of a multi-episode battle, couldn't have had the same done for her? Or that all the movie villains, who generally have one primary piece of canon to draw from, have more than they do?

Come on, people.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
They gave Android 16 a full moveset and you're all telling me they couldn't have had Android 18, who had fought the most of any of the Androids prior to Super, couldn't have had her own moveset that didn't involve 17? Or that Kefla, who was the subject of a multi-episode battle, couldn't have had the same done for her? Or that all the movie villains, who generally have one primary piece of canon to draw from, have more than they do?

Come on, people.
Nah but you see there not iconic.

We can't have them get in the game before such iconic characters like Yajirobe./s

Seriously I still can't get over that, SOMEONE SAID THERE LESS IMPORTANT THEN FUCKING YAJIROBE!
 

Trim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
535
User Banned (1 week): Misrepresenting other members and dismissing concerns surrounding inclusivity over a series of posts
Yeah all those kids voting for Raditz, Janemba, and SSJ4 Gogeta.

Clearly no one could actually like Kefla and such.

Why are you so obsessed with downplaying this character? Does it offend you that people want her in the game? Decency bias or no the fact of the matter is they are in fact popular.
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,370
I think the big mistake was not making SSJ and Blue the same character with a transformation to power up like Golden Freeza. There's no reason they needed to be separate like this. Just make it so their SSB level 3s only could be triggered after the transformation and weren't available for SSJ. The standard SSJ moveset would work for both forms.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).
You complain about people being dishonest and then posts that? The series also originally ended in 95 if you're taking about Toriyama's work. 96 was just GT. And Toriyama is involved with Super, even if he isn't writing and drawing a manga like before.

Also, yes, the survey is from 2019, but doesn't that go against your point? The franchise is bigger than ever now (bigger game sales, bigger box office, bigger merchandising sales), so the characters that are popular now are actually popular overall. It's not like the series is dying and the people who bother voting in something like that are some irrelevant niche.

Yeah four if you count kid but he's too different imo. When people complain about too many gokus I don't think they'd count kid. Though technically four, yes.
GT is completely different mechanically and asset-wise, but that just makes things worse, since it's all this effort for a very unpopular version of a character who is already in the game.
 
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OP
OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,637
Costa Rica
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).

Plenty of female characters have been suggested and hyped here.

Kefla is the most prominent because many can't wrap their heads at the fact that the most powerful and plot relevant female character in years. Protagonist of one of Goku's best battles in Super. Was completely ignored. Despite her being one of the first to be added to other games/media given her popularity.

It's just that baffling.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,439
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).

There's only three female characters in a roster of 36. That's 8%. Like. It is factually true that there is a low amount of female characters, and the existence of multiple, prominent ladies in the franchise shows that this could be changed. It won't magically turn this game into a bastion of representation, but it'd at least move things forward.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,257
Houston, TX
I think a few things need to happen if we are to see better representation for women in DBFZ.
  • Regardless of if it's Toei/Shueisha-mandated or a self-imposed restriction by Arc System Works &/or Bandai Namco, they need to become more willing to create original movesets for characters like Bulma.
    • I'd mention be more willing to include jet-packs for those who can't fly, but it seems like a restriction that Xenoverse is also bound by for the most part, so I'm not gonna get my hopes up there. At least DB Chi-Chi (Older) can use Nimbus, so there's her out.
  • Between 18 & Videl, 18 is probably the one where removing her assist character would be the most reasonable. Obviously this won't happen in a balance patch, but maybe in a sequel (especially now that the ToP already ended).
  • This goes without saying, but we need more women on the roster who don't have to worry about the first point. Kefla & Ribrianne come to mind considering this.
    • Caulifla & Kale would also be nice, but I'm not sure if they'd include all 3 or just consolidate all of their moves into Kefla.
    • Granted, Ribrianne isn't exactly the most popular character. But she would be the third plus-sized female fighter in fighting game history if she was added. That plus it seems like the DB staff have a soft-spot for Ribrianne considering her up-front inclusion in the ToP group shot in DBS: Broly, so there's hope for her.
 

Rackham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,529
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).
Not enough female isn't a wrong excuse and your prior post is dumb
 

Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
It's a larger issue with shounen as a whole, and yes, I know how the word is generally translated.

I honestly think the genre is leaving money on the table by neglecting to use female protagonists in shounen works. Whether it'd be for role models, variety, or just titillation, I think lots of viewers would be more receptive to seeing traditional shounen with female leads than the anime industry thinks.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,257
Houston, TX
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).
  1. Whether you like it or not, Super is a legitimate (& canonical) sequel to DBZ. It's not filler.
  2. The problems the OP mentioned aren't inaccurate, & it's not just about Caulifla, Kale, or Kefla.
 

laser

Member
Feb 17, 2018
310
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).
The fact that you think people aren't posting in good faith in wanting more female characters is very telling about your character.
 

Revven

Member
Oct 27, 2017
833
The thing is, though, this isn't really new with Dragon Ball games either. It's been problematic with the series as a video game franchise for a long time. Even the more casual "fighting game" Xenoverse 2 has a terrible ratio of male fighters to female fighters and that game has even more simplified characters to design (literally only three actual combos per character, 5-6 special moves, less complex character models). And even when you count the custom female characters, I think the amount of playable female characters in Xenoverse 2 is less than 10 in a roster of almost or now is 100 characters. That's a really bad ratio.

And the joke is, it's getting more DLC even now and guess what the next DLC character is coming in June? Another version of Vegeta. You heard me. Another Vegeta. The Super Saiyan God Vegeta. In a game where there's already like 4 actual Vegetas in the game when you exclude the character variations, if you include the character variants it's well over 15 something Vegetas (the variants are on one Vegeta character slot). The truth is, while there's an opportunity for more unique characters in an even more casual Dragon Ball game even then it seems Toei/Shueisha would rather promote the new movie and focus on the main characters.

Meanwhile yes, it's true Xenoverse 2 got Kefla already but keep in mind that the amount of playable females in the game is still similarly low. Her inclusion doesn't suddenly make Dimps that much better than ASW in that regard.

I feel with Xenoverse 2 as evidence that the decisions for characters definitely rests at the top of the chain and not the developers. Maybe the developers have some say, but definitely not as much as one might think.

All of the blame doesn't go to ASW is my point with this post. That said, I'm also not suggesting this is a losing battle because of it being more tied to Toei/Shueisha and such. This kind of discussion is important for sure as character variety is sorely lacking in FighterZ in general; I'm all for more females, I'd really like Kefla, Caulifla, and Kale. Those three would add a lot more than what base Goku and base Vegeta did to the game.

Anyway, just some food for thought.
 

MonsterJail

Self requested temp ban
Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,337
Get that road rage woman who teaches Piccolo to drive as a playable character

"Burn rubber!", followed by a 10x belt slap combo, finishing with a car summon
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I have no problem with this character.

The problem I have is that I see people wanting her so badly in the game they have no problem using wrong excuses (not enough females, too much Sayan, not enough Super, survey from 2019 for a show who ended in 1996 and only got fillers since then).

If you guys want to be honest, just make this thread clear in the first place, and name it "Please bring Caulifla in DBZF". No need to use dishonest reasons behind it, everybody should want more options (and I do).
This is....


I got nothing. If you seriously consider those "dishonest" then I don't know what to fucking tell you.

I'll just say that Super is not filler and there is nothing wrong with saying this game needs more women because it does.
 

Trim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
535
So now here comes the critics towarded to me. Swearing and "dumb" posts, just because I don't like the idea to "force" a character in a roster just because she's female.

Maybe, just maybe, those supposed characters you keep posting are not inconic enough to be in the roster, and will only appear in a DLC. That does not mean I (and also the devs I guess) don't want female character in the game, but I instead I want iconic character first in the game, female or not.

Remember, if you want to go forward, and this is a respectable goal, start by acknowledging characters by not only their gender but also their importance.

And like it or not, Super will never be as impactful and popular as Z