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Is it OK to say "Fucking White People" as a white person to POC during conversations?

  • Yes

    Votes: 570 50.5%
  • No

    Votes: 558 49.5%

  • Total voters
    1,128

Deleted member 48828

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 21, 2018
731
I find it incredibly cringey, and I think it's because the implication, intended or not, is that you're not one of those "fucking white people," because you just said "fucking white people." When obviously that's not how it works. It just doesn't feel right to hear a white person complain about "white people" while simultaneously benefitting everyday from white privelege/supremacy they've been given by white people as a white person.
 

Dongs Macabre

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,284
It's self-congratulating white liberalism that says nothing and does nothing under the pretense of being an ally.
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
I'm not really a fan of the whole "fuck all [insert race here]". At least not if meant seriously and not just an expression of frustration, anger etc.
 

Christo750

Member
May 10, 2018
4,263
That shit always felt like trying too hard. And it makes conversation awkward depending on who you're talking to.
 

VISION

Member
Oct 25, 2017
988
It's not offensive, but it will create a very awkward moment and not benefit either of you in any way
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,138
It's self-congratulating white liberalism that says nothing and does nothing under the pretense of being an ally.
Yup. It's incredibly try-hard and makes me think they're completely full of themselves.

Not to mention it's bigoted. Supposedly bigots aren't allowed on Era, but it seems over half the members here proudly proclaim themselves as such.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
It's only racism or bigotry in the most technical sense imaginable, rather than in any meaningful sense. IMO if it's not propagating something like imperialist hierarchies of social inequality or enacting any kind of common and unreflective tyranny characteristic of all 'punching down', some of y'all need to calm down as it's functionally rude or 'not nice' at worst. The ironic/jokey form of 'fucking white people' is almost invariably making fun of bougie or bougie aspirational white culture which frankly does reveal itself to be contemptible constantly and if anything it should probably be criticized and called out more lol.
 

TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
Well yeah, I've previously argued that it is a huge difference. I meant nuance in the sense that it might not be easy for some people to realise the importance of their choice of language when making such points.

Edit: Assuming OP isn't a huge racist.
OP as in me?? No I am not a racist. I will admit to being a white dude from Colorado though. A lot of discourse over the years on this forum and others has opened my eyes to my privilege. However, my dad was a construction worker and my mother a secretary and I have gone through poverty and even homelessness during Christmas. I remember spending Christmas in a home and I remember people I have never met who were just as down on their luck as my parents trying to surprise me with the little they had.

I have received many gifts since then but none as important to me as those I got from complete strangers on that Christmas. I hang those on my tree today as a reminder that people, no matter how down on their luck as want to bring joy to children on Christmas.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Would assume this would depend on the specific person or people you're saying it in front of. Even posters in this thread aren't agreeing.
 

TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
It's only racism or bigotry in the most technical sense imaginable, rather than in any meaningful sense. IMO if it's not propagating something like imperialist hierarchies of social inequality or enacting any kind of common and unreflective tyranny characteristic of all 'punching down', some of y'all need to calm down as it's functionally rude or 'not nice' at worst. The ironic/jokey form of 'fucking white people' is almost invariably making fun of bougie or bougie aspirational white culture which frankly does reveal itself to be contemptible constantly and if anything it should probably be criticized and called out more lol.
So what are you actually saying?
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,382
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Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I find it incredibly cringey, and I think it's because the implication, intended or not, is that you're not one of those "fucking white people," because you just said "fucking white people." When obviously that's not how it works. It just doesn't feel right to hear a white person complain about "white people" while simultaneously benefitting everyday from white privelege/supremacy they've been given by white people as a white person.

Yep. I don't have to apologize for my skin, but I also don't get to act like I'm super-cool guy and it's everyone else who's the problem so I somehow deserve kudos or something.

It reminds me of all those "man, aren't guys the worst?!" people. If there was a behavior that seemed to be slipping into the "performative wokeness" umbrella it'd be stuff like that.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
I always find it super corny when I see white peoples say shit like that here on ERA.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
in what sense though? Specifically how does a careful selection of definitions play into the idea?

Dude I explained it, it's literally only 'racism' or 'bigotry' if you're an ahistorical pedant attempting to identify a species of racism while having no evident negative consequences that would make it actually deserving of that label, thus making it come off as histrionic.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,138
Dude I explained it, it's literally only 'racism' or 'bigotry' if you're an ahistorical pedant attempting to identify a species of racism which has virtually no evident negative consequences that would actually be deserving of that label, making it come off as histrionic.
How hard would it be to just not be racist though? I don't care if it doesn't negatively affect you. Get rid of all your racism.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,452
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Saying "fuck *insert race of people here*" is cringey at best and racist at worst. Even if it's another white person saying it to other white people.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
I'm not really a fan of the whole "fuck all [insert race here]". At least not if meant seriously and not just an expression of frustration, anger etc.

This is how I feel.


Saying "fuck *insert race of people here*" is cringey at best and racist at worst. Even if it's another white person saying it to other white people.

Yeah, agreed. Saying "Fucking white people" as a white person is no different from Uncle Ruckus on the Boondocks hating his own race. People aren't a monolith, judge them individually.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
How hard would it be to just not be racist though? I don't care if it doesn't negatively affect you. Get rid of all your racism.

It's not worthy of being called racism because there's no socialized or institutionalized subjugation along the lines of race (in fact white people are again the ones to benefit from this sort of situation, lol) and no one honestly believes that white people in any number actually hate being white...
 

TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
Dude I explained it, it's literally only 'racism' or 'bigotry' if you're an ahistorical pedant attempting to identify a species of racism while having no evident negative consequences that would make it actually deserving of that label, thus making it come off as histrionic.
Just trying to deconstruct your argument. So you are saying that history decides the racist pedant not a simple understanding of what racism is?
 

Iron Mike

Member
Sep 28, 2019
229
OP as in me?? No I am not a racist. I will admit to being a white dude from Colorado though. A lot of discourse over the years on this forum and others has opened my eyes to my privilege. However, my dad was a construction worker and my mother a secretary and I have gone through poverty and even homelessness during Christmas. I remember spending Christmas in a home and I remember people I have never met who were just as down on their luck as my parents trying to surprise me with the little they had.

I have received many gifts since then but none as important to me as those I got from complete strangers on that Christmas. I hang those on my tree today as a reminder that people, no matter how down on their luck as want to bring joy to children on Christmas.
No I meant that the OP of this thread probably has more of an issue with white privilege than with white people and should have expressed that clearly.

Maybe nuance isn't the word, but I doubt the OP is a self-hating white person.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Just trying to deconstruct your argument. So you are saying that history decides the racist pedant not a simple understanding of what racism is?

What? 'Racism' emerged as a concept presumably to identify and address a systematic or institutionalized social inequality, with that social inequality having its most apparent or overt roots or justification within the practices and ideologies of imperialism and colonialism.

Literally where is anything like that here. Not to mention that white people saying this shit can't possibly really mean it because they're white and they presumably think they're an exception (which is how they if anyone are arguably the beneficiaries of this 'racism'). This is a complete nothing burger lol. Like you can argue we all shouldn't be rude and like, sure, I can see how that might be the case, but when you get this abstract and removed from any particular harm it gets a lot harder to have a long animated conversation about it because you're suddenly arguing about something pretty different from actual racism.
 
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TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
What? 'Racism' emerged as a concept presumably to identify and address a systematic or institutionalized social inequality, with that social inequality having its most apparent or overt roots within imperialism and colonialism.

Literally where is anything like that here. Not to mention that white people saying this shit can't possibly really mean it because they're white and they presumably think they're an exception (which is how they if anyone are arguably the beneficiary of this 'racism'). This is a complete nothing burger lol.
Ahh haha you think that racism emerged as an imperialism/white issue. Ok well ask yourself if that is true?
History is older than you think. Not only that but to PRESUME that white people dont understand racism is a FOOLISH thought. Ask the Jews about that.
Not only that but start looking at the genecides in Africa 'because they were the wrong type'.

Racism and hatred existed before white people and it will exist long after. It has more to do with tribalism than it does anything else
 

Eros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,668
As a poc I dont want to hear that from a white person. It's well meaning but you can still benefit from being white. Just say the problems you have.
 

TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
As a poc I dont want to hear that from a white person. It's well meaning but you can still benefit from being white. Just say the problems you have.
I am sorry but how do the first two sentences make sense? If someone comes to you with a problem how do you decide that it isn't a problem? What do you base that on?
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Ahh haha you think that racism emerged as an imperialism/white issue. Ok well ask yourself if that is true?
History is older than you think. Not only that but to PRESUME that white people dont understand racism is a FOOLISH thought. Ask the Jews about that.
Not only that but start looking at the genecides in Africa 'because they were the wrong type'.

Racism and hatred existed before white people and it will exist long after. It has more to do with tribalism than it does anything else

Imperialism in this case just means the most recent or developed material and cultural manifestation of 'that tendency or behavior exhibited by empires' and you're right there were other empires in the past, too! Why are you bothering me with this dull exchange devoid of any apparent disagreement. Calling something like this racist is toothless because this behavior on the face of it presents none of the adverse effects we'd expect from racism, and we're talking about white people engaging in this self-consciously presumably as a way of gaining some social capital by distinguishing themselves. If there is a victim in this case they're essentially being victimized on the basis that they're being perceived as lame or gauche. Wow ouch totally deserving of that label.
 
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TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
Imperialism is imo just the most recent manifestation of 'that thing or those behaviors that empires do' and you're right there were other empires in the past, too!
It's wrong to assume racism is tied to
Imperialism. Imperialism isn't about the subjection of races it's about the loss of freedom and the lack of power to stop it. I really want and need people to understand the difference.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
It's wrong to assume racism is tied to
Imperialism. Imperialism isn't about the subjection of races it's about the loss of freedom and the lack of power to stop it. I really want and need people to understand the difference.

Racism is literally unintelligible if we ignore the long historical tradition in the west of concocting and justifying narratives of racial superiority which ostensibly emerged around the same time from the need to justify the imperialist project and the subjugation of black and brown people lol. Surely people were discriminatory on virtually any basis imaginable in the past, but it was never before codified and made 'scientific' and totalizing, not to mention that's not the world we live in.

If someone was being a dick to another person because they didn't like the look of their face or something, we'd think they were a dick but we wouldn't feel compelled to identify it with like a really concrete and highly materially and culturally realized evil dogma that actually disadvantages people lol. Like can you tell me how this is racism in any meaningful sense? Who are the victims? What's most damning to me is that this seems if anything an exculpatory move effectively lampshading it in a way. White people are primarily the beneficiaries of being able to distinguish themselves from other white people for being more culturally savvy or whatever.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,689
I don't think I've ever used that phrase ever, and kinda don't see why you'd need to use it when you can just call out whatever the topic is or whatever

Unless you're looking at some stat about NASCAR viewership increasing or something where you can make a joke of it
 

Desparadina

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
609
i personally think it's corny when white people do it cause when I say that shit like we either talking about you or someone in your family that most of y'all would never confront about whatever type of behavior prompted that reaction in the first place.
 

Dabanton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,913
i personally think it's corny when white people do it cause when I say that shit like we either talking about you or someone in your family that most of y'all would never confront about whatever type of behavior prompted that reaction in the first place.

See the threads on here of people scared to confront family and friends who they say are racist.

imo either be about it or keep it to yourself.
 

Deleted member 5260

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
441
I'd really feel like a dork if I said this out loud to other people.

Socrates once said: "White guys: You're never going to be as cool as black guys. You're white and you're lame. It's a fucking law of nature."

Or maybe it was George Carlin. Either way, try to accept and own who you are, including all the good and bad that comes with it.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,138
It's not worthy of being called racism because there's no socialized or institutionalized subjugation along the lines of race (in fact white people are again the ones to benefit from this sort of situation, lol) and no one honestly believes that white people in any number actually hate being white...
Racism is not just based on hatred.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,045
This thread just ends up making me think about how much performative wokeness sucks. I don't mean that in a way that's targeting particular comments, but just in general.

It sucks directly because for minorities, it inevitably leads to a crash. The people who seemed to be your friends and supporters eventually bump into some minor obstacle where they're go "well I was on your side, but if you're going to ask me for stuff, that's too far". Some incredibly minor issue that they draw the line in the sand on to demonstrate that they think you're worth this much and no more.

But it seems like awareness of it also sucks. This hypothetical white person who genuinely wants to show their support for others is still under scrutiny for how genuine they are. At the same time that they're actively interested in issues that revolve around the well-being and feelings of others, they're supposed to be unconcerned about the feelings of others. They risk being seen as cringeworthy. Even if they're minor issues compared to the issues of others, it's not hard to imagine that these are social deterrents that encourage them to avoid this difficulty and to use that privilege they possess which allows them to decide that they don't have to care.

And it can be weaponized, which also sucks. A common method to try to silence the voices of minorities is by presenting them as performative wokeness; instead of showing them as what they are, people communicating their own experience and trying to improve the situations of people like themselves, they're dismissed as cynical and distant attempts at grabbing kudos by clinging to issues. It sells the notion that because the critic doesn't actually care and has no reason to, that no one actually cares or has any reason to. It's an intentional silencing of the issue by demonizing people for showing interest in them.

I don't have an action plan or anything, it just strikes me as a bad situation.
 

Keuja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,185
I'm not white but whatever the ethnic background I dislike hearing people denigrating their own race in such broad strokes, even if they mean well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
772
Honestly in any kind of serious manner I would avoid it. I use it quite some time to just ease some stress in my job.

For context I work in a call center for credit car disputes and out of my 3 years of working nobody gives me more shit or just pisses me off than old white dudes. They will pull all the entitled shit in the book and refuse to listen to anything that doesn't support them. Like arguments aren't even about logic it's just I'm right and you should believe me when I have jack shit to prove it.