Is it too early to rank the mainline Super Mario games (basically, the platformers)?

En-ou · Nov 2, 2017

Nothing beats 64. It pretty much is the template for 3D platformers.

Bosh · Nov 2, 2017

UnapologeticallyBLK said:
I know that it's only been out for about six days, but I'm five hundred moons deep and feel pretty good about talking about this. I don't think we need to necessarily rank them all (though you can if you want to), but I think that it's worth talking about this and explaining how and what we value in these games.

I'll just do my top five, which I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about when I've thought about video games this week.

1. Super Mario Bros. 3: It was hard to pick the best Mario mainline platformer, and I do feel that this and my #2 Mario game are the legitimate "Best Game Ever Made" contenders on my list. I think what this came down to for me is that SMB3's level creativity is even better than SMO's. By the time you hit World 5 or so, this game throws a crazy amount of level types at you. Levels scroll vertically, levels scroll horizontally, levels wrap around, there are mazes, there are big enemy worlds, there are levels that force you to go from Starman to Starman to run across the completely hazardous ground, and the airships manage to stay fresh even though they're all really "dodge the cannons and Bullet Bills" in the end. The number of powerups is insane, probably only rivaled by Odyssey's variety of enemies that you can capture. I just can't place another Mario game above this one at this point. I honestly could change my mind on this some day, whereas in the past, I was dead sure that this was the best Mario game ever made.

2. Super Mario Odyssey: Everything that SM64 does, this does better (as it should), and the joy of finding moons both hiding in plain sight and that are tricky to get to alike never wavers. The creativity this game utilizes in giving you so many different ways to get moons is astounding, and even repeat ways (like catching the dang rabbits) changes slightly based on which Kingdom that you are in and the specific physics or areas that are common to that Kingdom (without spoiling too much). If someone argued this game as the best Mario game, I'd be cool with that. If someone wanted to argue that this was the best game period, sure, I think that you can make that argument convincingly.

3. Super Mario 64: I like World more personally, but 64 is a better game. It allows for more creativity and actually has difficulty (even outside of the C-stick camera controls) in the last couple of worlds. I also prefer Mario games that intersperse difficult platforming into a more open world full of puzzles at this point than I like all-linear platforming, all-the-time Mario.

4. Super Mario World: The cape and the cape bounce are too powerful and unbalance the game itself, but the platforming itself is varied and the key/lock and secret goal system is a great way to add exploration to a linear platforming game.

5. Super Mario Land 2: I know that this is out of left field, but the leap in art design from the first game to the second one plus the batshit insane level design (hey, let's have levels set inside a clockwork Mario!) really do it for me. It's not particularly hard, but it is full of ideas that are interesting and are fun and surprising to encounter. It also, for my money, is the best purely-handheld Mario platformer ever made (of course, Odyssey is the best handheld Mario overall).

My number five, I'm sure people would quibble with, but I think it deserves representation on this list. What say y'all?

Love Super Mario Land 2. It's my #3 for best Mario game ever made.

#1 Super Mario Bros. 3
#2 Super Mario Odyssey
#3 Super Mario Land 2

Deleted member 7462 · Nov 2, 2017

Zero-ELEC said:
Well,

yeah.

I think you misunderstood. I was comparing 64 to World, not 64 to Odyssey. The Special World aside, World is a cakewalk. Even in the Special World, only Tubular do I remember as a really hard challenge.

64 actually gets challenging around Wet-Dry in some ways, and by Tick Tock Clock, it's legitimately challenging (to me).

Odyssey is already showing good difficulty at 400-500 moons with some of these stone pipes that have unique platforming challenges that really stretch your understanding of Mario's platforming abilities.

Zero-ELEC · Nov 2, 2017

UnapologeticallyBLK said:
I think you misunderstood. I was comparing 64 to World, not 64 to Odyssey. The Special World aside, World is a cakewalk. Even in the Special World, only Tubular do I remember as a really hard challenge.

64 actually gets challenging around Wet-Dry in some ways, and by Tick Tock Clock, it's legitimately challenging (to me).

Odyssey is already showing good difficulty at 400-500 moons with some of these stone pipes that have unique platforming challenges that really stretch your understanding of Mario's platforming abilities.

Reading comprehension is not my strong suit apparently -_-

sorry

Clov · Nov 2, 2017

For me, I don't think I can really combine the 2D and 3D games into one list. They play too differently to me to make a fair comparison. I'd have to think over my 2D favorites again, but I know that my absolute favorite of those is Super Mario Bros 3. I know you said it was surprising, but I'd also put Super Mario Land 2 up there. It's a very fun little game! In terms of 3D, I'd rank the titles like this:

1) Super Mario Odyssey
2) Super Mario Galaxy 2
3) Super Mario 3D World
4) Super Mario Galaxy
5) Super Mario 64
6) Super Mario 3D Land
7) Super Mario Sunshine

Personally, I don't think of the 3D Mario titles are bad games, it's just that some are much better than others. I love Mario Sunshine for example, but it's definitely the weakest of all the 3D Mario games to me. Wasn't a big fan of FLUDD and some of the challenges were really frustrating (like that pachinko one...). Mario 64 on the other hand I still absolutely love; I just feel that the ones above it were better made.

In any case, I have no idea how they'll outdo Odyssey in the future, but I also thought the same thing about Galaxy 2. I'm looking forward to being surprised!

kc44135 · Nov 2, 2017

I disagree with these lists immensely, as they do a disservice to the best Mario game ever, and it is still the best! Odyssee wishes it was as good! Anyway, lemme school y'all on the Mario hierarchy...

The undisputed BMGOAT: Super Mario Sunshine! The game of the forever!

Distant second place: Odysee.

Even more distant third place: SM64

Even more distant fourth place: Galaxy 1=2

And then, everything else.

Brera · Nov 2, 2017

SMW
YI
Mario 64
SMB3
Galaxy games
3D Land/World
Mario Oddyssy
Everything else apart from NSMB

StarPhlox · Nov 2, 2017

Not ready to rank Odyssey yet, although I feel confident saying it's a top 5 Mario. Need another couple months, probably. Even after hitting the credits I feel like I've just scratched the surface.

1. Galaxy
2. Galaxy 2
3. Mario 64
4. Mario Bros. 3
5. 3D World

Crushed · Nov 2, 2017

Just for reference, here's Nintendo's Official Mario Bros. Game List (they list Mario Maker and Mario Run, Yoshi's Island is not listed)

HistoricalAnomaly · Nov 2, 2017

Only ranking games I've played
1. Super Mario Bros. 3
2. Super Mario 64
3. Super Mario Sunshine
4. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
5. Super Mario Odyssey
6. Super Mario Galaxy 2
7. Super Mario World
8. Super Mario 3D Land
9. New Super Mario Bros. U
10. Super Mario Galaxy
11. New Super Mario Bros.
12. Super Mario Bros.
13. Super Mario Bros. 3
14. Super Mario Lost Levels

EDIT: Super Mario Land in between 3D Land and Bros. U

FreddeGredde · Nov 2, 2017

I like all the mainline Mario games quite a lot. I'm a bit surprised by my own list, now that I tried ranking them after how much fun I had with them, combined with the overall impression they made on me.

My top 10:
1. Super Mario Odyssey (Galaxy was probably more jaw-dropping, but Odyssey just has better flow and controls. It's also cooler and more epic! Time will tell if I'll rank it lower with time, as I'm currently 600 moons in.)
2. Super Mario Galaxy (Amazing experience, emotional and creative, fantastic music.)
3. Super Mario World (I grew up with the NES Marios, but this one just controls better and felt more like a real journey.)
4. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Similar to Galaxy 1, maybe better as a game, but not as fresh or emotional.)
5. New Super Mario/Luigi Bros. U (What can I say, I love what the co-op brings to Mario, and the level design is great.)
6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Same reason as above; amazing memories with friends and dates!)
7. Super Mario Sunshine (Extreme freedom and maybe still the best controls in a video game. Possibly topped by Odyssey.)
8. Super Mario 3D World (It still beats Odyssey when it comes to multiplayer, so it's unique that way. Does feel like a "level pack" though, rather than a coherent adventure.)
9. Super Mario Maker (Didn't expect to care for this one, but I became obsessed and spent surely 200 hours on it. Sequel needs multiplayer.)
10. Super Mario 64 (It was jaw-dropping when seeing it in stores before release, but playing it, something just didn't FULLY click with me. The worlds are too simple and empty, or something.)

The rest:
11. Super Mario 3D Land (Fun but simple and very easy.)
12. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (Wow, I'm putting this low. It used to be my very favorite, but the levels are sooo long, and it bores me nowadays.)
13. Super Mario Land 2 (Although dirt easy and very short, it has some of the most inspiring and original level designs! I wish they'd look at THIS when making the next 2D Mario!)
14. New Super Mario bros. 2 (Quite generic, but co-op was a great experience.)
15. Super Mario Bros. 3 (Yes, I rank it this low. It's good, but I like all the above more. The controls feel limited, the "it's just a stage play" visuals take me out of it. The music makes me a bit uncomfortable.)
16. Super Mario Bros. 2 (I like this game a lot. Just not more than the ones above.)
17. New Super Mario Bros. (Was fresh upon release, but doesn't stand up well because of the superior sequels. Definitely the most "skippable" one.)
18. Super Mario Land (It's fun. Also some cool level design, but it's short and "too small".)
19. Super Mario Bros. (Not a bad game, but it just controls are just much nicer in all the sequels.)
20. Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (Almost the same as SMB, but more frustrating.)
21. Super Mario Run (Didn't buy the full game, but the gameplay is too simple, despite being quite fun to collect the hard coins.)

Clov · Nov 2, 2017

Crushed said:
Just for reference, here's Nintendo's Official Mario Bros. Game List (they list Mario Maker and Mario Run, Yoshi's Island is not listed)

Personally I've always thought of SMW2 and SML3 as being the first Yoshi and Wario games respectively, rather than Mario games in their own right. I can see why they wouldn't be on that list.

Fou-Lu · Nov 2, 2017

I still have a ways to go in Odyssey, but it is by far the best platformer I have ever played and might end up being my GOTY over Persona 5 and Breath of the Wild. This is coming from a huge JRPG and Zelda junkie.

I think 64 might still be my second favourite Mario platformer, then World.

Xtortion · Nov 3, 2017

Nocturnowl said:
Galaxy 1: I'm kinda twiddling my thumbs waiting for the inevitable it prints money HD version of this to play it again. And I'm kinda thinking it's not gonna hold up as much as I remember. But dammit, it was also the comeback Mario needed after the GC era had him reduced to sports and endless parties.

Galaxy 1 levels can be a weird hodgepodge of ideas rather than a focused, streamlined thing. Like you'll start out finding five pieces of a launch star, then do some platforming, then kill an enemy for a key, then walk across some panels to open a door, etc. All in the same level sometimes. I definitely prefer Galaxy 2's heightened focus on singular level themes that twist and escalate as you go along.

Anyway, rankings:

1 Galaxy 2 - Streamlined perfection, with none of the sluggishness of 3D World. Consistently challenging with an explosive endgame. A+ controls. Still wish I could hat dive, like in...
2. Odyssey - IMO the best feeling Mario ever. 60fps+ the hat dive maneuver feels so good it should be illegal. The game gives the impression of limitless potential for experimentation and mastery, even if the core challenge level is relatively low. It also looks really nice imo.
3. 3D World - Movement feels somewhat gimped in comparison to other recent titles (not in mechanics, but execution). However, the level design is something else. It may even 1-up Galaxy 2 in the focus and streamlining departments. It gets pretty dang tough, too. Top-notch level gimmicks and a wealth of content elevate this one. I also prefer having three green stars and a stamp in each level to the singular comet coin in Galaxy 2.
4. 64 - Abysmal gameflow and a low framerate can't put down the best Mario moveset around. Moving Mario in the game is second only to Odyssey imo, though 64 might offer more utility.
5. Galaxy 1 - The unfocused levels and questionable gimmicks (manta surfing ugh) didn't always gel with me. Prolly didn't help that I played it after Galaxy 2. I still like it, and it feels great to control, but the overall level design isn't really for me. Though it must have been amazing, coming out after...
6. Sunshine - Blue coins can eat my ass. Fuck the volcano.

Nocturnowl · Nov 3, 2017

Xtortion said:
Galaxy 1 levels can be a weird hodgepodge of ideas rather than a focused, streamlined thing. Like you'll start out finding five pieces of a launch star, then do some platforming, then kill an enemy for a key, then walk across some panels to open a door, etc. All in the same level sometimes. I definitely prefer Galaxy 2's heightened focus on singular level themes that twist and escalate as you go along.

Yeah, it's these things that I was thinking of when wondering if I still liked it as strongly as I did initially.
There's a lot of ambling around small planetoids grabbing the launch star pieces, luring bullet bills into glass domes, throwing bob-ombs and not in the immediately explosive and satisfying 3D world way.
On top of that I just remembered sea slide galaxy and its "swim through the rings", okay now "race through...the exact same place where the rings were" and then when you're at the end game stage deep dark galaxy and "SWIM THROUGH THE RINGS RETURNS!"

ghibli99 · Nov 3, 2017

Weltall Zero said:
Wow, exactly like myself (I would even remove the "borderline"), and I've been playing Mario since SMB1 (got SMB3 on release day). Which is odd because I then went on to enjoy all other games in the New series (yes, including the 3DS one).

Yeah, although NSMB2 on 3DS was pretty easy, I felt like I was really inside the designers' heads finding the hidden coins and such in that one. Most importantly, it *felt* good to play, and if I remember correctly, it did away with most of the annoying design decisions like requiring certain power-ups to get things. That's been a part of the series here and there, of course, but I found it particularly annoying in NSMB1. Also, I know the models were all done in 3D, but 30fps for a side-scrolling Mario just didn't feel right to me.

Patrick Bateman · Nov 3, 2017

For me it would be:

1. SM64
2. SMW
3. SMO

I've never played a Galaxy-game or Sunshine and I wish Nintendo would release those on the VC of the Switch.

Renna Hazel · Nov 3, 2017

1. Mario 64
2. Mario 3D World
3. Mario Odyssey

This is the hardest series ever to rank as there are about 8 games or so that I'd give a 10 to. Odyssey is still new so it doesn't rank as high at the moment. If it stands the test of time it could move up my list to number 1. Odyssey is the most fun to explore in, and I feel it has a good amount of platforming challenges. On the minus side I felt the main story was too short and I think it's the worst controlling 3D Mario game. I still have over 300 moons to go, and I'm sure I'll replay the game and see if it can top the king (Mario 64).

Kyzer · Nov 3, 2017

Top 5

Super Mario Odyssey
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 3D World

Galaxy and Odyssey are top 5 of all time for me

AuthenticM · Nov 3, 2017

Honestly, Galaxy 2 is probably the best Mario game across everything.

SweetBellic · Nov 3, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
3 is best

64 is worst

Of the one's I've played, I have to agree.

For me: SMB3 > SMW > SMB > SMB2 (Japan) > SM64

Mario just doesn't work for me unless he's 2D and mute.

kittens · Nov 3, 2017

I still have some post game stuff to unlock in Odyssey but so far I think I like the Galaxy games better. Assuming that stays true: Galaxy 2 > Galaxy > Odyssey > World > 64 > Sunshine for the 3D games. I can't rank the 2D games on the same spectrum, it just feels wrong. Also for the record, Yoshi's Island would beat all the 2D Marios but it's a Yoshi game and not a Mario game so doesn't count.

Mr. Nice_Guy · Nov 3, 2017

Too early to judge Odyssey for me, but I have a feeling it'll be up there when I'm done.

For 3D:
Galaxy 2
3D World
Galaxy
64
Sunshine

Out of all of them I love the way Mario handles in Sunshine the most by a pretty wide margin. I wish the game around it was just as good.

NuclearCake · Nov 3, 2017

Hard to say definitively but this is usually how i would rank them.

Must Play.
1.Super Mario Odyssey
2.Super Mario World
3. Super Mario 64
4.Super Mario 3
5. Super Mario Galaxy
6. Super Mario Galaxy 2

Great
7. New Super Mario Bros U
8. Super Mario Sunshine
9. Super Mario 3D Land
10. Super Mario Land 2

Decent/Good
11.New Super Mario Bros Wii
12.New Super Mario 3D World
13. Super Mario Bros
14. New Super Mario Bros DS

Meh/Bad
15.Mario Land
16. Super Mario Bros 2 (Japan)
17. New Super Mario Bros 2
18. Super Mario Bros 2 ( Pure Trash)

Is it too early to rank the mainline Super Mario games (basically, the platformers)?

En-ou

Bosh

Deleted member 7462

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones

Clov

kc44135

Brera

StarPhlox

Crushed

HistoricalAnomaly

FreddeGredde

Clov

Fou-Lu

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer

Nocturnowl

ghibli99

Patrick Bateman

Renna Hazel

Kyzer

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime

SweetBellic

kittens

Mr. Nice_Guy

NuclearCake