Is Kojima the M. Night Shyamalan of the gaming industry?

XolSec

Member
Feb 18, 2018
1,569
I'm legitimately curious about when it became the in thing to hate on Kojima? Like, when did that start, exactly? He's consistently made some incredible games, and while I've only played a few hours of Death Stranding, it's clear that he's created something different. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's an intriguing game and concept.

He's a talented game designer, with a penchant for infusing his work with his eccentric world view. I don't understand the need to hate on him at the level I see in every thread about him. If you don't enjoy his work, just don't engage with it. I can't stand Michael Bay or Zack Snyder, so I don't waste my time consuming their content, and I certainly don't go out of my way to shit on them in every thread related to them. I guess I just feel like my energy could be spent towards discussing things that don't make my blood pressure rise or put me in a foul mood.
Yea, when did shitting on Kojima became a thing? Because he developed an exclusive game?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,609
canada
Ppl actibtg as if theres a massive hater boner for Kojima on Era are delusional. He is beloved here, probably more than most gaming forums.

I love MGS1-3 and I like PW for what it is but everything else is not very good imo. MGS4 with its horrid story and limited gameplay. MGSV with its horrid story and terrible gameplay outside the fantastic character control and AI. I look forward to seeing if DS can win me over this xmas break.
 
Oct 27, 2017
445
OKC
It’s mostly a reaction the zealotry. He’s extremely talented at game design and his games have helped shape the industry. Problem is that it’s a combination of his fanbase being so fervent in its proselytization and him being completely & utterly full of himself that many people are worn thin from the countless times Kojima is placed on a pedestal by himself or others.

Look, I didn’t like Death Stranding. And I think that not liking it is reasonable. I played it, didn’t like it. Many many many people played, and absolutely loved it. Also reasonable. But when his fans are proclaiming it “GOTY” *prior to release* without even playing a minute of it, it’s a bit much. When Kojima proclaims that he’s creating a new genre, it’s a bit much. He’s been compared to Scorcese and Kubrick in this thread. Without irony. I think it’s reasonable to roll up and respond “yeah that’s crazy and so are you” to any of those proclamations.
I just don't really buy this tbh. The negativity is so overwhelming more pervasive here than the zealotry that it's almost to the point of parody imo. Not only is this a thread comparing artists in different media, which is kinda pointless, but you have people literally saying that kojima is worse than a director who is a literal punch line for making terrible stuff. its just so strange.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,691
Ppl actibtg as if theres a massive hater boner for Kojima on Era are delusional. He is beloved here, probably more than most gaming forums.
Go look at how people reacted to DS being nominated for various categories at the TGA's. People going as far as to create conspiracy theories about why it was nominated. Then you had the whole fiasco where even journalists jumped in with dumping on Kojima after a tweet he made around what a "Hideo Kojima" game means.
 

Kuraudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,092
He’s the Chris Nolan. Technically skilled in their respective industries. Nobody else makes big budget products quite like them. Later work less universally beloved than their earlier stuff. Internet nerds won’t shut up about them.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,386
Kojima hasn't crafted a halfway decent story in fifteen years. Coincidentally, MGS3 was also the last time Tomokazu Fukushima was credited as co-writer of one of Kokima's games. Kojima's no good on his own.
 

MrS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,267
Kojima hasn't crafted a halfway decent story in fifteen years. Coincidentally, MGS3 was also the last time Tomokazu Fukushima was credited as co-writer of a Metal Gear game. Kojima's no good on his own.
The Clifford Unger storyline in Death Stranding is bad? Or haven't you played the game?
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,713
People keep mentioning The Happening and now all I can think about is how that is definitely Shyamalan's most Kojima-esque work. Funny to see people shit on it in film form though while trying to downplay the comparison to Kojima.

I don't think they're that comparable overall though. Kojima mostly takes and learns from action movies. Zack Snyder works since he took the slow-mo stuff that was already becoming prevalent in action movies and blew it up into his own style that got him a bunch of work he may not have had otherwise.
 

Stiltzkin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,773
Kojima is the Kubrick of video games and the Obama of Twitter followers.
 
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Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,424
Peter Molyneux is the M. Night of gaming, to be honest.
What's in the cube is life changing.
What a twist!
You're just the 'god' for our next game.
What a twist!
We forgot to contact you.
 

sinny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
644
So I just beat Death Stranding. I loved the gameplay; building infrustructure to link the various outposts is actually quite addicting. That said, the story is hugely disappointing, for a number of reasons I won't get into right now. And the "action" parts also sucked.

The last few stories that Kojima tried to tell have been disappionting to me. Death Stranding, Metal Gear Solid V, and Peace Walker as well. So for the last decade, Kojima has let me down in the story department, which is a giant shame, because I adored the stories of the first four Metal Gear Solid games.

This made me think about how I feel the same about M. Night Shyamalan. The man's first three movies, The Sixth Sense, Unbreakable and Signs, are all amazing and beautiful movies with great, human stories. Then the guy drank too much of his own kool-aid and went off the deep-end, and hasn't been able to tell a good story since. Split was the closest he came to being back to form, but even that does not approach the level of quality of his first three movies.

Kojima feels the same. Dude had it all earlier in his career, then, from many accounts, became imbued with his own ego, and stopped telling great stories.

The visit and Split are better than Signs by a huge margin.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
983
He hasn't had as many flops as Shamalanahan. Hell DS is his worst rated game at 83 on metacritic. I am sorry that you dared to criticize Kojima, Era does not like!
 

hughesta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,859
Hideo Kojima makes video games. The video games he makes are often very good.

M Night Shyamalan makes movies. The movies he makes are often lackluster.

So no.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,078
If you wanna write Kojima has become shit in my opinion then just do that
Kojima has become shit in my opinion.

But seriously any game where you have to play 10 hours to "Get to the good part" is awful game design. I couldn't even last that long. Such a disappointment considering the metal gear series was pretty damn amazing overall.
 

Firmament1

Member
Aug 15, 2019
498
More like George Lucas. In the sense that both have tons of ideas, good and bad, and that they need someone on their team to listen to what they have to say, and then tell them "No".
 

Fury451

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,722
These threads are something else.

No, don’t be fucking absurd. And I don’t even like all of his products, but to make such a comparison is silly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,985
Sweden
V had a very good story even though most people missed the point

not completely sold on the one in death stranding yet, though i haven't gotten very far
 

hughesta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,859
Kojima has become shit in my opinion.

But seriously any game where you have to play 10 hours to "Get to the good part" is awful game design. I couldn't even last that long. Such a disappointment considering the metal gear series was pretty damn amazing overall.
I was having fun in Death Stranding pretty much as soon as gameplay started. There's nothing wrong with the first 10 hours
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,077
'straya
Kojima has become shit in my opinion.

But seriously any game where you have to play 10 hours to "Get to the good part" is awful game design. I couldn't even last that long. Such a disappointment considering the metal gear series was pretty damn amazing overall.
There's nothing that happens 10 hours into the game that causes such a major change. If anything that change happens 20 hours in where zip-lines get introduced and the deliveries go from being a test of endurance to a test of speed and efficiency.
 

Morrigan

The MandaloRIAN
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,973
I bet M. Shyamalan isn't quite as misogynistic, at least.

And yeah I think George Lucas is probably a better comparison.
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,053
I feel like he's closer to David Lynch with how fucking out there some of his stories are
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
904
Since basically every Kojima game since MGS1 is on the short list for game of the year, his movie director equivalent would have to also consistently make movies that are regarded as film of the year.

So these M. Night, Snyder, George Lucas are all poor comparisons.
 

Matthew77

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
3,282
Massachusetts
What I don’t get is why for an enthusiast board people get stuck on story in a game. I know people love their stories but it’s an interactive medium built off games, rules instead of story.

Kojima is one of the greatest game designers from MG on MSX he has been pushing game design forward never mind that fact MG,MG2,MGS 1-2 are really big reasons why stories are done the way they are, he was pushing interactive narrative on the MSX, at a time when most developers story was the first page of the instructions and a thank you for playing screen.

I mean strapping in and laughing at the silly story is what you do while looking at the polished cutscenes between game.

As for M.Night having more cultural mindshare doesn’t mean Sixth Sense is more influential than Metal Gear. Sure more people have seen it so more people know it, but it really didn’t affect film that much, whereas Metal Gear has influenced the games industry and its direction multiple times, that is more influential and more important just because less people have interacted with it.

But whatever the haters will call me a cult member and say I drank the kool aid while calling Hideo a failed film director even though games were not and could not be anything like a movie when he joined the industry. Baseless hatred is so old and played out....
 

Sweeney Swift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,302
#IStandWithTaylor
No because M Night made two great films

My response would have been "No because M Night doesn't hate women as much as Kojima does" but that seems to be a thing less of you want to hear than just "he's not that good in my opinion"

He's certainly no Lucas because Lucas made a bunch of fun films that are still enjoyable experiences
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,247
i'm conflicted over DS and may very well come around to the conclusion that the game just isn't very good but i'd never analogize him with the same person who wrote/directed Lady in the Water
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,145
Imagine "hating" on a game director with this output ( there are more games but i included the most famous) :

  1. MGS
  2. MGS 2
  3. MGS 3
  4. MGS 4
  5. MGS V
  6. Death Stranding
 

Tofer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,482
Not even close. Kojima has consistently been one of the best game designers generation after generation. M night has never reached the heights of Sixth Sense and release mostly average films.

I don’t know what fantasy land haters are living on but Kojima in actuality is one of the most acclaimed video game directors currently in the industry.
 

Parapraxis

Member
Feb 16, 2018
225
We literally had threads created and shut down because some here were asking if it was GOTY before it had even released.
You are claiming that thread is "fans are proclaiming it “GOTY"" ? I feel like you just moved the goalposts quite a bit. Yes, that was clearly a pretty dumb thread, but it does seem like a one off and suggesting this was wide-spread or any kind of "proclamation: is nonsense.