Is Microsoft making a mistake by developing Halo:Infinite for the Xbox One?

[EvilBoris]

Nah, BOTW showed gameplay is more important than making a game all about power.

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but Mario 64 showed that you need power to facilitate new

never thought of it but yes.
id want a halo or any game on a new gen to have been designed from day one for it

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Halo is possibly one of the very worst franchises to use in this example, as the original game was an RTS game on the Mac just 2 years before launch and was a 3rd person game just a year before launch on the Xbox

famously not designed from day one for its hardware, or even it's a Genre

 

[Kerberosorthos]

MS is all about mindshare - you wont need buy the game thanks to GamePass or Scarlet to play the game.
They dont care how - as long people play the game.

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It will take some time till people will get this into their minds. Most are stuck with this generation thing.

 

[EvilBoris]

I would not be surprised if they do a The Last of Us 2 where the MP part is (likely) next-gen only.

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It would surely more likely the other way round , multiplayer is cross platform on game pass, but huge next gen open world campaign is Scarlett Xcloud and and PC only?

 

[Wollan]

It would surely more likely the other way round , multiplayer is cross platform on game pass, but huge next gen open world campaign is Scarlett Xcloud and and PC only?

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MP requires long-term commitment unlike SP (well, in most cases). It also has all the variables of a MP game where having extra CPU headroom is beneficial.

 

[VeePs]

I would not be surprised if they do a The Last of Us 2 where the MP part is (likely) next-gen only.

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Umm... why would Xbox One hold back Halo MP lol?

The staple of the series is arena style matches with 4v4 or 5v5, and Big Team Battle, with a maximum of 8 players on each side.

I would imagine it's more scaleable than a campaign mode.

 

[EvilBoris]

MP requires long-term commitment unlike SP (well, in most cases). It also has all the variables of a MP game where having extra CPU headroom is beneficial.

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Im assuming the core multiplayer gameplay and behaviour will be along the lines of the previous Halo games, so CPU requirements wouldn't be expected to increase exponentially, also as so much of the multiplayer is running serverside?

I think They moved Halo 5 to dedicated servers only to remove the cpu reservations that Had to be made for each client otherwise.

 

[Zappy]

Simple answer - no.

They will have to scale the game to the various hardware available. Just like PC games.

I'm not convinced Halo Infinite is going to be doing anything that won't be possible on XB1 albeit hugely, hugely cut down in quality and possibly even things like AI.

 

[EvilBoris]

Simple answer - no.

They will have to scale the game to the various hardware available. Just like PC games.

I'm not convinced Halo Infinite is going to be doing anything that won't be possible on XB1 albeit hugely, hugely cut down in quality and possibly even things like AI.

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We don't actually know the details of the game yet, if rumours are to be believed ,it has a destiny like a vibe going on, it might be online only with the AI running serverside as Destiny. does, which again takes away the AI/CPU concern.

But is the time right where they could release an online only Halo campaign without all the concern and concern trolling of 6 years ago?

 

[christocolus]

Of course not. I think they are making the right decision here. Why cut out their 40million + userbase? also I think getting it on Xbox One will automatically get you the Scarlet version but there will definitely be those who will buy Scarlet at launch for the game too.

 

[Zappy]

We don't actually know the details of the game yet, if rumours are to be believed ,it has a destiny like a vibe going on, it might be online only with the AI running serverside as Destiny. does, which again takes away the AI/CPU concern.

But is the time right where they could release an online only Halo campaign without all the concern and concern trolling of 6 years ago?

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We'll see. I find it hard to really go with the rumours of it being like Destiny. But we'll see. Online only campaign would need a very good reason behind it - Destiny being a co-op looter shooter makes sense. I can't see them making Halo that without a lot of backlash and then making the campaign online just for AI compute would likely be given short shrift by many.

Wouldn't bother me - but I'm doubtful it'll happen.

 

[Puffy]

From what I've read it looks like SSDs can dictate how games are designed from the ground up. If the game is designed to also be playable natively on xbox one and PC's with HDDs then it will never take full advantage of a SSD. So halo infinite on scarlet is, for lack of a better term, a shiny xbox one game but can reach more people than otherwise. It being a mistake depends on what you think is more valuable.

Makes sense when you consider the time of development. Halo infinite is an xbox one game releasing on scarlet

 

[dodmaster]

I don't think it's a mistake, but if you're talking about 'big team battles' in 2021 and you only have a 16 player arena - that's not next gen. It's not even current gen. The design constraints baked into XB1 games will hold back Scarlett's games, if they are designed for the lowest common denominator. Why have 16 player arenas, when you can have 1000-player open halo-world battlefields with complex real time physics in 4k as a baseline to sell the next gen? This is why I find it hard to comprehend people in the first party thread supporting the idea of Scarlett launching without any first party hardware exclusives.

x86 isn't some magic bullet that somehow solves these hardware design constraints via 'minimum spec'. You either design bigger and better games and attempt to scale down afterwards with potentially pitiful results, or leave the old hardware behind.

 

[Desfrog]

I guess it will depend on Sony's launch games. If they are more ambitious or look substantially better thanks to being built with the PS5 in mind, then it would definitely make the nextbox less appealing to me, especially since I've just picked up an X. A Halo game designed around the SSD and a far better CPU would be a sight to behold and it's a shame it will be a few years before we see it.

 

[Detective Pidgey]

It's honestly phenomenal and makes me giddy thinking how good the next one will look on Scarlett.



They did say no more generations, but that was a while ago and I feel that whole notion is being phased out.

I'd love it if things are cross gen with my X but I feel that most exclusives after the first year will be Scarlett only.

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Crossgen with X wouldn't be a big issue because that system is still very powerful and should be able to handle games for a while, but OG Xbox One is a no go. Unless they're counting on Xcloud for that.

If devs target Scarlett/PS5 first with next gen and then scale it down for X and Pro I'd be OK with that. That way I would hope these games aren't held back at all then.

 

[BrickArts295]

Honestly the BOTW strategy will work for them and I'm confident there will be enough differences to convinced players to choose Scarlet. Personally I'll just stick with XB1X and enjoy what I get out of Infinite.

MS has something good going on for them with gamepass. I mean you pretty much already have Halo Infinite Day 1 (and a shit ton of BC games) if you have gamepass by next fall and all you need is an Xbox console (or PC). That will definitely sweeten the deal for some.

 

[Kilgore]

I think we should wait to see how Halo Infinite turns out to be before judging if they are making big compromises because of Xbox One compatibility tbh

 

[Prine]

Look, it'll be like Witcher 3 on Switch. It's not going to be pretty, but that isn't going to be important for a section of fans. And the rest will upgrade, as we know it's enthusiasts that drive the bulk of sales for new consoles. Out of principle I'm buying Halo Infinite (despite being a paid up member of Gamepass) for Scarlet, I can barely contain my excitement when I think about launch.

 

[Potterson]

No.

People must realise that current gen isn't like PS3 times. It's different architecture similar to PC. Which means that new games can run on anything - they will just look better on newer consoles.

Just like playing on a PC you bought 6 years ago VS totally new PC with expensive GPU.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Should have been a dedicated next Gen game to blow people away. It's also on PC anyway so there already is a market. Making this runnable on the original Xbox One will surely hold it back.

 

[Theorry]

Should have been a dedicated next Gen game to blow people away. It's also on PC anyway so there already is a market. Making this runnable on the original Xbox One will surely hold it back.

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Like you said its already on PC and it will scale to lower end pc's already. And the Xbox One version is one of those "pc versions"

 

[Earthed]

Like you said its already on PC and it will scale to lower end pc's already. And the Xbox One version is one of those "pc versions"

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I think the market he was talking about would have been high end gaming machines, not my laptop with an mx250.

 

[Dr Pears]

Gears 5 look really ugly at times on OG Xbox one.

But being able to play it was still very nice.

 

[Theorry]

I think the market he was talking about would have been high end gaming machines, not my laptop with an mx250.

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I am abit confused about what the market has to do with it?

 

[Legacy]

I think they should have kept it to Scarlet only, I can see why they didn't want to limit availability though

 

[Earthed]

I am abit confused about what the market has to do with it?

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If Microsoft wanted to have a larger market than just Scarlett for their next Halo game, they could have gone for the PC gaming market (albeit the high-end machines) instead of negatively impacting the potential of the game by tying the anchor that is the original xbox one (hardware-wise) to it.

 

[Starlatine]

I guess it will depend on Sony's launch games. If they are more ambitious or look substantially better thanks to being built with the PS5 in mind, then it would definitely make the nextbox less appealing to me, especially since I've just picked up an X. A Halo game designed around the SSD and a far better CPU would be a sight to behold and it's a shame it will be a few years before we see it.

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Sony is going to avoid cutting their entire ps4 userbase when they release the PS5 even harder than MS

You people look like you never saw a generation transition before. Maybe you have the extra money to drop on a shiny toy the night it releases and immediately dump the "old" one but the vast majority of the world can't or won't.

 

[Earthed]

Sony is going to avoid cutting their entire ps4 userbase when they release the PS5 even harder than MS

You people look like never saw a generation transition before

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Sony made a pretty clean break last time around, from what I remember. Now they'll avoid doing it by the sheer fact that BC is a thing, but I doubt they'll have their first party games be cross gen.

 

[modiz]

From what I've read it looks like SSDs can dictate how games are designed from the ground up. If the game is designed to also be playable natively on xbox one and PC's with HDDs then it will never take full advantage of a SSD. So halo infinite on scarlet is, for lack of a better term, a shiny xbox one game but can reach more people than otherwise. It being a mistake depends on what you think is more valuable.

Makes sense when you consider the time of development. Halo infinite is an xbox one game releasing on scarlet

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this, i would also add that the CPU jump between current gen and next gen is massive, and will for sure be underutilized/used for a lot of minor graphical features as the game will still have feature parity with x1 version, rather than overhauling the base game.
on the other side, MS are trying to push game pass, and if you stop releasing your games on the older hardware, subscriber base will drop, they will probably stick to cross gen exclusives until they feel the drop in subscribers wont be big enough.

 

[Theorry]

If Microsoft wanted to have a larger market than just Scarlett for their next Halo game, they could have gone for the PC gaming market (albeit the high-end machines) instead of negatively impacting the potential of the game by tying the anchor that is the original xbox one (hardware-wise) to it.

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But lower end PC's will impact it already? And Xbox One nowadays is just one of the "pc versions" really. Even more with how consoles are X86 nowadays and not something complety different like the 360 and PS3.

 

[Thera]

Nah, BOTW showed gameplay is more important than making a game all about power.

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Nah, RDR2 showed power is more important than making a game all about gameplay.

 

[Earthed]

But lower end PC's will impact it already? And Xbox One nowadays is just one of the "pc versions" really. Even more with how consoles are X86 nowadays and not something complety different like the 360 and PS3.

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Not if they don't target them, is what I'm saying.

 

[Starlatine]

Sony made a pretty clean break last time around, from what I remember. Now they'll avoid doing it by the sheer fact that BC is a thing, but I doubt they'll have their first party games be cross gen.

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If you want to dance around the issue and say "ummm during the first years sony games wont be crossgen! they will be released on the ps4 and be playable on ps5 via BC with some enhancement patches. totally different!" be my guest. The end result for the user is the same. And the only reason they had a "clean break" transitioning from ps3 to ps4 was due to the very unique nature of the PS3 and its processor which isnt the case anymore and even then they still had plenty of crossgen limbo to go over

 

[Theorry]

Not if they don't target them, is what I'm saying.

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So only release on Scarlett and high end PC's?

 

[Starlatine]

So only release on Scarlett and high end PC's?

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Maybe they can make a HIGH END PC gamepass too for us true pc gamers. since the plebs that dont keep up with the latest on pc but signed for gamepass will obviously whine when they cant get to play this new Halo on their service, the gall of them. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Thera]

I think everyone is expecting the game to be targeting scarlett specs

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Infinite will most likely developed primarly for Scarlett and high-end PC and then scaled down for Xbox One.

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Depends on whether it's built for Scarlett with the one in mind or built for one with Scarlett in mind.

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I won't quote everyones here, but no, you can't targeting something with an SSD in mind and hoped everything will goes well when putting it on HDD.
So, no. It will be like every cross gen title, the targeted SKU will be the weakest.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Like you said its already on PC and it will scale to lower end pc's already. And the Xbox One version is one of those "pc versions"

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So let's make it also runnable on Xbox 360 then.

 

[Earthed]

So only release on Scarlett and high end PC's?

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Yes. They'd still be getting a secondary market that way. Not as large, but it's still there.

If you want to dance around the issue and say "ummm during the first years sony games wont be crossgen! they will be released on the ps4 and be playable on ps5 via BC with some enhancement patches. totally different!" be my guest. The end result for the user is the same. And the only reason they had a "clean break" transitioning from ps3 to ps4 was due to the very unique nature of the PS3 and its processor which isnt the case anymore and even then they still had plenty of crossgen limbo to go over

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I'm... Not dancing around anything?

BC will be for games release before PS5's launch. Maybe Ghost of Tsushima will straddle the edge if it doesn't release before Holiday 2020, but like, we already have talk of Bluepoint's game being a PS5 project.

 

[Fisty]

Like hey let's make ghost of tsushima and TLOu2 ps5 exclusive since they are probably 2020 titles just like halo

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Are Sony advertising the PS5 as launching day and date with TLOU2 and GoT?

 

[Theorry]

So let's make it also runnable on Xbox 360 then.

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360 is different and you know it.

 

[Starlatine]

Yes. They'd still be getting a secondary market that way. Not as large, but it's still there.



I'm... Not dancing around anything?

BC will be for games release before PS5's launch. Maybe Ghost of Tsushima will straddle the edge if it doesn't release before Holiday 2020, but like, we already have talk of Bluepoint's game being a PS5 project.

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Anything that releases when the ps5 is already on the market will be mentioned as a ps5 project, whether they also work on ps4 or not (and then the same woes of 'this is targetted for SSDs how can the old consoles even run' yadda yadda apply). Is this really what youre basing this discussion on?

This seems like a lot of concern for one game in one system when its going to be something that affects all games in all consoles using it and its one that already happens in pc for years with little panic

Are Sony advertising the PS5 as launching day and date with TLOU2 and GoT?

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Did sony say their consoles would be forward compatible? Microsoft did. If you wanted to believe in it or not its your call.

 

[Theorry]

Maybe they can make a HIGH END PC gamepass too for us true pc gamers. since the plebs that dont keep up with the latest on pc but signed for gamepass will obviously whine when they cant get to play this new Halo on their service, the gall of them. What could possibly go wrong?

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Lol yeah. Would be great idea to the PC userbase also they are trying to regain trust with it also. Screw you only high end PC's can play Halo Infinite.

 

[GymWolf86]

Yes.

It's not gonna express his full potential with xbox one in mind during the developing process.

But M can't ignore a shitload of xbox one out there so they are forced on doing this unfortunately.

 

[Fisty]

Did sony say their consoles would be forward compatible? Microsoft did. If you wanted to believe in it or not its your call.

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Theres no way the Scarlett with be completely forwards compatible, unless they are talking about streaming. Third parties will move on. No one will be starting development on XB1S games in 2021, it would be beyond pointless. MS should be pushing people away from last gen, not letting it drag on.

 

[Desfrog]

Sony is going to avoid cutting their entire ps4 userbase when they release the PS5 even harder than MS

You people look like you never saw a generation transition before. Maybe you have the extra money to drop on a shiny toy the night it releases and immediately dump the "old" one but the vast majority of the world can't or won't.

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Erm what Microsoft is doing is actually pretty unprecedented so not sure what your talking about. While there have been some exceptions, like LBP 3 and Titanfall, platform holders have always had premier exclusives at launch to show off what their hardware can do when not held back by the previous gen. Simply put the benefits of enticing people to adopt the hardware outweighs the loss in software sales. I would be very surprised if any of Sony's AAA games at or after the PS5 launch will be on PS4. Whether or not this will lead to clear differences when compared to cross gen games remains to be seen but on paper it absolutely should if games are designed around the SSD and new CPU.

 

[Akai]

I don't think it will be a mistake at all. We have confirmation that the new engine can scale well with PC, so this means that it will also scale well with Scarlett.

Would really like to know what kind of examples people have for it being hold back, because the last time I asked this, it was about a couple more different enemies on screen. An issue that Halo never really had, because the levels are carefully crafted with certain numbers of enemies on screen. This game won't be open world, like many people hoped it would be, either.

Are Sony advertising the PS5 as launching day and date with TLOU2 and GoT?

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What difference does it make if they are going to be launch day titles or not? If people like those games, they will buy the console either way, and these games will definitely be available on PS5. That's a given.

 

[Earthed]

Anything that releases when the ps5 is already on the market will be mentioned as a ps5 project, whether they also work on ps4 or not (and then the same woes of 'this is targetted for SSDs how can the old consoles even run' yadda yadda apply). Is this really what youre basing this discussion on?

This seems like a lot of concern for one game in one system when its going to be something that affects all games in all consoles using it and its one that already happens in pc for years with little panic

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What I said was that they've made clean breaks in the past, and I'm sure they'll do so again this time around. Games like GoT were announced as PS4 projects first and foremost, way before Infinite was announced, so of course those will be cross gen. But I'm almost certain, based on precedent, that anything announced for PS5 will be for PS5 only. Why? Because they want people to move over to that console. What's gonna move them there? The fact that their old games can be played there, and that new games will be released there.

Microsoft is in a different position though, where their platform these days is more so subscription based, so I get why they chose to do with Infinite what they did. But at the same time, as a player, I'm kind of sad that a business decision might result in a lesser game than is potentially possible. That's not to say that it won't be good though, but that's not really what this thread is about.

Erm what Microsoft is doing is actually pretty unprecedented so not sure what your talking about. While there have been some exceptions, like LBP 3 and Titanfall, platform holders have always had premier exclusives at launch to show off what their hardware can do when not held back by the previous gen. Simply put the benefits of enticing people to adopt the hardware outweighs the loss in software sales. I would be very surprised if any of Sony's AAA games at or after the PS5 launch will be on PS4. Whether or not this will lead to clear differences when compared to cross gen games remains to be seen but on paper it absolutely should if games are designed around the SSD and new CPU.

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Yeah. Sony is still highly dependent on actual console sales, so they'll still want to entice people to move over to the new thing. Microsoft on the other hand wants to have that too, but at the same time, a subscription to gamepass is for all intents and purpose the same whether you buy it on xbox one, PC, or Scarlett.

 

[Starlatine]

Theres no way the Scarlett with be completely forwards compatible, unless they are talking about streaming. Third parties will move on. No one will be starting development on XB1S games in 2021, it would be beyond pointless. MS should be pushing people away from last gen, not letting it drag on.

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Who knows besides them? They cant talk for third party, but they can talk about their own stuff, like Halo
They think keeping the entire xbox userbase for the first years is more important than only letting who pay premium enjoy it for a showcase. If they're right or wrong time will tell, but getting shocked about it when they laid their cards on the table long ago and people just didnt want to believe in it is silly.

Erm what Microsoft is doing is actually pretty unprecedented so not sure what your talking about. While there have been some exceptions, like LBP 3 and Titanfall, platform holders have always had premier exclusives at launch to show off what their hardware can do when not held back by the previous gen. Simply put the benefits of enticing people to adopt the hardware outweighs the loss in software sales. I would be very surprised if any of Sony's AAA games at or after the PS5 launch will be on PS4. Whether or not this will lead to clear differences when compared to cross gen games remains to be seen but on paper it absolutely should if games are designed around the SSD and new CPU.

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What they are doing is unprecedented yes but not on the way you think it is
Microsoft is not looking for hardware sales more than they are looking for service subscriptions. And you can be sure unless they delay the PS5 you will still see some ps4/ps5 titles alright

 

[Xeontech]

It's a bummer no matter how you look at it.

Probably should have announced it as next gen title.

 

[Fisty]

Who knows besides them? They cant talk for third party, but they can talk about their own stuff, like Halo
They think keeping the entire xbox userbase for the first years is more important than only letting who pay premium enjoy it for a showcase. If they're right or wrong time will tell, but getting shocked about it when they laid their cards on the table long ago and people just didnt want to believe in it is silly.

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I'm not shocked, as you said they announced this long ago, doesnt mean I think it's a good idea (and I didnt when they announced it either)

Let me put it this way: if Halo Infinite targets 60fps on XB1S/X like Halo 5 did, there are going to be a lot of disappointed Scarlett early adopters hoping for a next-gen Halo. The fundamental design (which cant be fixed by tweaks for Scarlett) will be thoroughly gen 8

 

[Starlatine]

I'm not shocked, as you said they announced this long ago, doesnt mean I think it's a good idea (and I didnt when they announced it either)

Let me put it this way: if Halo Infinite targets 60fps on XB1S/X like Halo 5 did, there are going to be a lot of disappointed Scarlett early adopters hoping for a next-gen Halo. The fundamental design (which cant be fixed by tweaks for Scarlett) will be thoroughly gen 8

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Halo 5 targeted 60fps on S cause it was the only console out during its release. They wont have this "problem" nor obligation with scarlett anymore. Maybe they still do it for parity, maybe they dont - its just weird to be this concerned and assume the worst case scenario so early.