Also, im not sure if this is true, but id imagine if youre a billionaire with no friends its hard to tell who approaches you actually wants to be friends or just wants some of your money.
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Is Minecraft Steve the single most frequently whitewashed character in gaming? (Update: Smash Bros. Steve is black!)
- Thread starter Gundam
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A lot of people not taking the OP's point super seriously in this topic but I actually think the central point here is pretty legitimate and fascinating. Steve's model in most (all?) Minecraft merch and official artwork seems very at-odds with his actual in-game model.
Now that I see it I can't unsee it.
It would be wonderful to go waaaay back to when MC first started blowing up and outside assets first being created and to understand how and when (and why) this happened.
Now that I see it I can't unsee it.
It would be wonderful to go waaaay back to when MC first started blowing up and outside assets first being created and to understand how and when (and why) this happened.
I can't remember where I read it, but that's actually exactly what happened with him. People he barely knew including family he had met once were coming out to ask for cash, and those parties he was throwing for a bunch of celebs was just to find friends, and have people around him.
Very interesting. I am curious though: why does none of the merch in the OP match with the shown Steve skin? All merch are bearded Steve, while the OG Steve does not seem to have a (identical) beard. Is it confirmed to be the same 'character' actually?
From what little I know about corporate design guidelines, when all the merch do it, it has to be a conscious decision. So I think it is actually fair to point out whether or not one perceived Steve as PoC or not - because the whitewashing may or may not be more offensive/alarming depending on how you perceived Steve in the first place. If you see Steve as PoC and the merch is clearly white, that's a problem. If you see Steve as white with a tan or dirty skin due to mining, presenting him "clean" is somewhat understandable from a marketing POV. However questionable that line of argument may be however, but it is really strange to apply beauty standards to a blocky ugly videogame character like Steve in the first place, but that is apparently what is in fact happening. It's actually a very fascinating case. I think there is indeed a good chance that marketing had sales data and research that suggested to lighten Steve's complexion, as absurd as it might be for such a kind of character look.
From what little I know about corporate design guidelines, when all the merch do it, it has to be a conscious decision. So I think it is actually fair to point out whether or not one perceived Steve as PoC or not - because the whitewashing may or may not be more offensive/alarming depending on how you perceived Steve in the first place. If you see Steve as PoC and the merch is clearly white, that's a problem. If you see Steve as white with a tan or dirty skin due to mining, presenting him "clean" is somewhat understandable from a marketing POV. However questionable that line of argument may be however, but it is really strange to apply beauty standards to a blocky ugly videogame character like Steve in the first place, but that is apparently what is in fact happening. It's actually a very fascinating case. I think there is indeed a good chance that marketing had sales data and research that suggested to lighten Steve's complexion, as absurd as it might be for such a kind of character look.
The beard was removed during Minecraft's beta period because it looked like a smile.
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Or because it's ingrained in many cultures that white is the default. Look at all the gamers that scream "Forced diversity!!!! SJW!!!" anytime a non-white, and especially non-male character is on the front of the box.
Notch didn't go into fuck it mode.
He got depressed because he didn't like the people hanging out with him for his money and after that he found friends among the alt right.
He would've turned out very differently if leftists had approached him during his depression period.
Nah if you can be convinced by alt right at all as an adult you already had those thoughts buried in you
To be honest, I never even noticed that Steve had a darker appearance in-game and just assumed he was white. That said, I also barely thought of Steve as an actual character instead of just a default/generic avatar.
You could maybe argue that Steve was simply meant to be rocking an extremely dirty miner look and not necessarily be a PoC, but it's a tough sell.
You could maybe argue that Steve was simply meant to be rocking an extremely dirty miner look and not necessarily be a PoC, but it's a tough sell.
How do you go from this to endorsing anti-Semitic conspiracy nonsense. Money really does corrupt people.
I have noticed that Lego MC Steve is a hell of a lot paler than the 3" Jazwares MC figures. I deal with way more MC than I want to thanks to a 5yr old, so this is pretty interesting. I'll keep an eye out.
Its insane people actually think this. A ridiculous pass given for ridiculous, ridiculous reasons. No different than people saying that it was evil leftists that "went too far" and made them right wing.
Picking your friends wisely isn't just a platitude.
Notch chose poorly at a very vulnerable time in his life. Him embracing these values is obviously still his fault but let's not pretend he couldn't have turned out differently by hanging out with different people.
Blaming turning into a racist conspiracy theory supporter on depression might actually be the most next level excuse since Roseanne's Ambien.
Just take the L on this...like, no. All the responsibility is his own.
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If you take out the "is he a PoC or not" discussion, he's still whitewashed in the toys
Acting like Notch just one day decided he didn't like black people or women for no reason is also pretty reductionist. Depression and alienation is very much a reason people turn to communities like the alt-right.
Exactly, it's stupider to propose that he was liberal until he was financially successful. Suggesting that they were manipulated while emotionally vulnerable is a more nuanced theory.
Somebody calls you out for something dumb you said then instead of accepting the fuck up and apologising, double down instead and scream "free speech" and fuck censorship that isn't even censoring you.
Then it's just a hop, skip and a jump to alt-rightsville.
Happens the same every time.
That's like saying "If you get indoctrinated into a cult you were always a religious extremist deep inside". Understanding how Notch went from the person who created a gender-free character for the sake of inclusiveness to the person he is today doesn't make him any less of a shitbag today, but pretending he was like this all along just lessens the tragedy of it all. Being sad that he turned into Notch 2019 isn't the same as forgiving the bullshit he spews.
Where can I find more info on this? I tried looking over his Twitter but couldn't find anything that looked like this.
To be clear, I meant that he is both racist and supports conpiracy theories, not that the conspiracy theories he supports are racist (but I'm sure there's some racist Q shit too)
So all the merch, etc, that came way after when Minecraft exploded in popularity is actually based on an outdated design? That's pretty interesting, like why wouldn't they go with the updated design?
The Lego appearance is the most interesting to me, because Lego does have a variety of different flesh tones and pays attention to authencity as much as possible in that regard:
For instance, they used the creamy beige tone for an asian-looking Commander Sato in the Star Wars Rebels cartoon:
The fact that they settled on light flesh explicitly must mean that they have been told so by Mojang / Microsoft marketing. Combined with all the other merch and marketing material, it seems to be that the caucasian look for Steve is the company official stance on his skin tone right now, even though the in-game sprite does not necessarily reflect that.
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That's very disappointing. I used to read his old tumblr posts when he was making Minecraft and he seemed so nice.
Pretty sure the ship has sailed on this one. There's so damn much merch out there.
Kids know all sorts of characters from the games from creepers to Herobrine to ....... yeah, that's about it. :P
I'm sure that Mojang/Microsoft/whoever was involved in the process as someone has to give approval for the set designs and whatnot, but assuming that Lego settles on the light flesh color because they were told to is a stretch. It's entirely plausible they settled on the light flesh color because it made the rest of the face stand out better.
I'm not saying this isn't whitewashing, but you're jumping to conclusions about why this happened without any evidence.
Settling for light flesh as opposed to, say, medium flesh because of better color contrast seems more of a stretch to me than what I assumed. First, as the pictures show, the other colors work fairly well in regards to designs and contrast, too. Second, it is easier for Lego to print darker colors on dark parts, so judging from the Steve minifig where the torso has a skincolored print for the neck, the better choice, production-wise, would be to go with a darker color than light flesh because it would look better on that torso. Third, the biggest issue with contrast in the current tone is apparently that the eyes' white is not too different from the light flesh tone, hence they added an outline around the eyes for the minifig that is not present in the brickfig nor the official design, so it seems like they are able to work around those kind of things if needed.
But you are right, I have no evidence for my assumption, so this is all just speculation on my part and I am just judging based on how Lego handled these kind of decisions in recent years and as I already said, they have made visible efforts to improve the accuracy with which they represent different complexions in recent history. Hence why I assume that Minecraft would be no different.
Coming back to this thread, because I noticed the promo-style art for the newer Java launcher features a more brown Steve, similar to the Switch boxart
Actually, his color seems more accurately represented in this image than in the Switch boxart, relative to Alex and everything else. The promo art in general makes all colors a bit brighter and more saturated than the in-game colors.
Actually, his color seems more accurately represented in this image than in the Switch boxart, relative to Alex and everything else. The promo art in general makes all colors a bit brighter and more saturated than the in-game colors.
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I’m still right
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Man, this is really sad. The man who wrote this has at least a shred of empathy. The current Notch doesn't, what happened?
Good observation, but this still takes the cake for me:
These are the same characters in the same game, except the one on the left becomes the one on the right after she becomes a princess.
The left looks like a sun tan from being a pirate, on the right she would lose it being in a castle everyday. I haven't played that game though. Or does she still sail out at sea after being a princess?
Holy shit that's weird as fuck, does anyone knows if he is in Dungeons? And if it's the case they did the same to him there?
Good observation, but this still takes the cake for me:
These are the same characters in the same game, except the one on the left becomes the one on the right after she becomes a princess.
I prefer Tetra's design but I don't think this was intended to be whitewashing. Tetra is a pirate, thus out in the sun all the time. Zelda is a princess cooped up in a castle thus pasty as fuck.
Dark skin doesn't always equal poc.
I never played Wind Waker, does she transform from a girl with a darker complexion into a girl with a white one?Good observation, but this still takes the cake for me:
These are the same characters in the same game, except the one on the left becomes the one on the right after she becomes a princess.
The transformation is instantaneous. She goes from being dark in one frame to being white the next in the same scene and location without a time jump.
That's honestly fucked up but I feel like people approach these subjects as it relates to Nintendo with the kiddiest of kiddy gloves.
I get why it's symbolically problematic, but the intention is very clearly to illustrate the shift from "rough, outdoorsy pirate who's always in the sun" to "delicate princess who's rarely out of the castle."
Now, the fact that they're relying on that particular princess stereotype itself is obviously... not ideal, but nevertheless. There's never a point in time at which Zelda/Tetra is anything more than tanned.
What's up with Elma btw?
She one of the few examples people use as Nintendo having a prominent black character but isn't her "true" form that of a pale, fair-skinned lady? I ask because I never played that game but I've looked at her wiki page and have also seen other people bring this subject up before.
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id still say it's whitewashing, doesn't matter if it's an ethnicity change or not
royal princess = lighter, more beautiful and proper
Pirate of the seas = darker, more hardened and scruffy
Even if it's not the most maliciously racist, it's still there
but that's the problem - most of these white washing examples aren't outright acts of evil Malisciousness - they're deep rooted perceptions that feel like they're the "default" which is why they're not the most obvious things to some people
You know, every single time I've seen Steve Merchandice I've always thought it looked terribly off... but I could never actually figure out why that was. Seeing the two pictures with the official model and the figures side by side and its clear as day that whoever designed the Steve merch royaly fucked up. Steve isn't supposed to be as light skinned as Alex... he's supposed to be darker and have a five-o-clock shadow. Full stop.
In that sense, I would agree, and I think we can largely thank a long tradition of east Asian - and especially Japanese - standards of beauty valuing lighter skin, both in and out of an ethnic context, for that, at least in this instance.
