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Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Note: I'll be pulling info from the "Xbox Community Content" article featured on Windows Central last year. Give it a read if you're interested for more details for Microsoft's, alleged, mod plans on console.

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-microsoft-exploring-bringing-mods-xbox-one

So with the news of an announcement for the Master Chief Collection coming at the WCC in March I recalled an article from last year that mentioned that mod support was something developers were going to get beta access to that month, last year. That's not to say 343i is going to announce mod support for the MCC at WCC, but it did get me back on a train of thought a lot of folk have had in the past year. Is mod support a future pillar of the Halo franchise?

Halo thrives on community content, even on console
With the original Halo featuring custom gametypes the series has continued to embrace the communities' drive to make tweaks to the Halo experience. Halo 2 expanded upon this (remember OXM gametypes?) and Halo 3 went wild with "Forge", a map editor that allowed for some really fun content. Since then there have had ups and downs but the current version of the Halo 5 Forge Editor is a powerful tool that creative folk are able to do amazing things with.



And that's not counting the amazing content from folk like Masterz1337 for Halo on PC (SPV3) but more on that later.

Mainline Halo is coming back to PC. Mouse and Keyboard are coming to console
As some people are keen to forget, Halo Infinite will be the first time a Halo FPS will launch simultaneously on PC and console. What better time to implement modding support than a PC Halo which can use the extra resources of the platform to go wild with mod tools. The same goes for official mouse and keyboard support on Xbox. That's a huge jump for map creation over just being limited to what a single controller can do.

343i Seems Interested
I was a bit surprised last year to learn that someone had been making strides with modding Halo Wars 2 but had even gotten support from folk at 343i saying that the more work done to the game, the easier the pitch for mod support can be made internally.

When ElDewrito was given the notice to cease development of the project Phil Spencer even tweeted out the following highlight that came from 343i's statement...



This point is important "As we look ahead, we're very excited about the prospects of an official classic Halo experience making its way to PC and we hope to be able to partner with the ElDewrito team and broader mod and content creation community"

Bethesda proved mods work on console.
Fallout 4 and Skyrim Enhanced Edition were the proof that mods on console can not only work but that people are more than happy to use them there as well.

Microsoft is, apparently, building the infrastructure for it.
As stated in the article above Microsoft is allegedly building mod tools for their platform. From being using the marketplace to deliver content, user ratings, validation checks and being able to specifically define what within a game is moddable, this seems like it is could be a very powerful tool and something developers have apparently had access to for some time now.

From 2018...
These documents are from earlier in the year and note that a developer beta for the features would be hitting Xbox dev kits in March, with approved mod libraries going live later this summer.

xbox-mods-2.jpg


The community is ready for powerful mod tools
No amount of modding tools are important if there isn't a community to use them and there is no better proof of the Halo modding community than Halo itself. Halo: CE (Custom Edition) launched on March 15, 2004 with no official support from the developer of the Halo PC port, Gearbox, but it has endured for years now with custom maps, levels, weapons, and so much more.



The fact that 343i is testing bringing some of that content into the MCC is exciting stuff. But how could it be delivered to the end-user? If there was ever a game that would be the perfect testbed for Microsoft's mod program on Xbox (and PC whenever MCC rolls out there) it'd be this collection. From the near infinite of content already available to the "flighting" program that exists with the MCC it seems a match made in heaven, especially if 343i has had a year to work with the Xbox mod tools.

Just thinking what the Halo community could do with tools not built in 2003, but instead something built into the Slipspace Engine is obviously exciting. Could it be what Halo: Infinite needs to take that big step forward for the FPS genre?
 
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vegtro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
717
Well if MS allows UWP become moddable on PC it could come true. And if it did open up, I don't see the game community mod the game as extensive as Bethesda games. The mod scene is more inclined to open world than to linear games ala MCC. Infinite could be a GaaS so I doubt any mod scene would happen there.
 

Decado

Member
Dec 7, 2017
1,393
Isn't modding quite limited on consoles when it is implemented?

Mods are a wonderful.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,586
They have it working internally already, they said they need to refine the pipeline though if they ever want it to be public.

For Halo Custom Edition on MCC
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Well if MS allows UWP become moddable on PC it could come true. And if it did open up, I don't see the game community mod the game as extensive as Bethesda games. The mod scene is more inclined to open world than to linear games ala MCC. Infinite could be a GaaS so I doubt any mod scene would happen there.

Bethesda games are king for modding communities but Halo is no slouch either.

From 2015...


Also, few things are more GAAS than letting users sell custom content.

It will be up to developers to decide how to leverage these services, including things like content moderation, and whether or not they will allow paid mods.

Isn't modding quite limited on consoles when it is implemented?

Mods are a wonderful.

It depends on what the developer/platform allows. It's a design limitation.

They have it working internally already, they said they need to refine the pipeline though if they ever want it to be public.

For Halo Custom Edition on MCC

Right, but I think it'd be a big misstep not to use this program as the delivery mechanism for that content.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
They mentioned mod tools on Xbox nearly a year ago, and surprise, nothing has come of it.

There's no way in a million damned years they'll be letting people go at Halo like Valve does with TF2, with totally custom maps with their own assets, custom weapons, wacky new game modes, all that.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,586
They mentioned mod tools on Xbox nearly a year ago, and surprise, nothing has come of it.

There's no way in a million damned years they'll be letting people go at Halo like Valve does with TF2, with totally custom maps with their own assets, custom weapons, wacky new game modes, all that.
They have been experimenting with it actually, they imported a map into Custom Edition not too long ago and it worked, however they said they needed to improve the pipeline because how they did it was not user friendly. So it's probably coming for Halo CE (I imagine a bit after the customs browser hits)
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
They have been experimenting with it actually, they imported a map into Custom Edition not too long ago and it worked, however they said they needed to improve the pipeline because how they did it was not user friendly. So it's probably coming for Halo CE (I imagine a bit after the customs browser hits)
I don't understand what you mean. Who's making this pipeline and custom browser, the existing mod community for Custom Edition? I'm talking Microsoft making mod tools for MCC and/or Infinite.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,586
I don't understand what you mean. Who's making this pipeline and custom browser, the existing mod community for Custom Edition? I'm talking Microsoft making mod tools for MCC and/or Infinite.
343, they have a internally system to put Custom made maps into Halo CE for the MCC, they need to refine the pipeline though but they did it and told everyone they did it.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,586
Here is a quote from the halowaypoint blog in April. Dude did it for fun too lol.

"Another area Sean has been tinkering with on the side is working on the pipeline and process to bring Halo Custom Edition maps into MCC. This is longer lead proof-of-concept work that isn't part of the near-term scope but he's shared some exciting progress successfully loading a Halo Custom Edition map into MCC. There's a lot of rough edges and plenty of work to still do on this front—and to be honest this feature work isn't currently even tied to an official milestone—but it's a really tantalizing and exciting prospect to think about further down the road."
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
I don't understand what you mean. Who's making this pipeline and custom browser, the existing mod community for Custom Edition? I'm talking Microsoft making mod tools for MCC and/or Infinite.

343 is playing around with Custom Edition content in the MCC.

Here is a quote from the halowaypoint blog in April. Dude did it for fun too lol.

Yeah, I think the last we heard of it was in October with Sean talking about ongoing work for audio issues with codecs used on PC maps.

2. Halo Custom Edition. In order to properly support Custom Edition, it requires re-adding texture systems to the Halo engine in H1A for DirectX 11. I worked on a prototype of this earlier in the year, but it still doesn't solve for the other issue which are sounds. Custom Edition was PC only, and it uses audio codecs like oggvorbis which you would normally not use on the Xbox One. In the event that we want to support a Custom Edition map with sounds that never shipped in Halo 1, we need to re-enable parts of the old sound system in the Halo engine, plus support decompressing/playing the sounds in a way that works with H1A's FMOD implementation. This work is still ongoing.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,586
343 is playing around with Custom Edition content in the MCC.



Yeah, I think the last we heard of it was in October with Sean talking about ongoing work for audio issues with codecs used on PC maps.
Yeah that's quite a bit of a time gap on working on a non milestone project. It's going to happen imo
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
343, they have a internally system to put Custom made maps into Halo CE for the MCC, they need to refine the pipeline though but they did it and told everyone they did it.
343 is playing around with Custom Edition content in the MCC.
Ohhh. Importing content made for CE, like it says in the OP. "Importing Into CE" confused me. Will those tools be user facing, though? Or will it be a case of them picking popular maps to put into the official lineup.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,889
I'd be surprised if brand new releases didn't offer some sort of mode support outside of the traditional forge and whatnot we've gotten in the past.

Even if MCC comes to the PC and with the knowledge of them working on bringing Custom Edition content, I'm not going to hold my breath on it coming out anytime soon if at all.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,586
Ohhh. Importing content made for CE, like it says in the OP. "Importing Into CE" confused me. Will those tools be user facing, though? Or will it be a case of them picking popular maps to put into the official lineup.
That's what we are going to have to wait and see on, though if it's user facing and comboed with the custom browser? Oh boy.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Halo Custom Edition's mod support gave it legs and retained a lot more players than might have stayed otherwise. I'd be more than a little disappointed if Infinite doesn't have it.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
Skyrim and Fallout 4 are impressive in their support of modding. Not unlimited by any means but I can do a lot to either game with the 5gb of space I'm allocated for mods on One X
Compared to the PS4 the Xbox has it wide open for any Bethesda games and mods.

Infinite almost needs modtools immediately or after its launch because forge can only do so much.
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,806
Thanks for the shoutout!

Unfortunately, I am going to have to refrain from commenting on this. Given that Sean Cooper worked on the engine upgrades that were used in SPV3 and was developed in tandem, my public visits to 343 over the years, and just general relationships with people there, I don't want to say anything that gets misinterpreted or misquoted. Or worse, any sort of assumption I've been told things. I know as much as the public does.

Obviously, 343 has taken notice of the fan development community on the PC, from CE to Sins of a Solar Empire, to UE4 and Unity Projects.

Personally, I am surprised by 343's pro modding position after everything with El Dewrito, given the shady nature of the project and some of the in bad faith intentions of it. I'm not really a popular guy in the mod scene anymore, due to being outspoken on that project due to moral differences in how community projects should be done and promoted. I don't think mod projects should be done with the intent to harm the IP owner, but really should be done to express artistic vision and supplement what's out there, not compete, or harm existing products.

While more content is always a good thing, if I were 343 I would be concerned with what is allowed and how you would manage community content in a way they don't have to with forge. An official Halo SDK community would be a pretty massive thing to oversee and regulate, and you'd have plenty of people trying to use it make content to supplement as much as you would show 343 up and "fix the franchise they ruined".

People often mistake SPV3 as being a fuck you to 343, when in reality that whole project started due to disappointment with Bungie's handling of the sequels campaigns. However, there was never a vindictive notion with it to cause harm to Bungie like I'd imagine you'd see with something for a modern 343 game.

In short, mod support would be a real double edge sword for them, although I'd love to see what comes out of it. But I can't see it being anything but a headache for 343 to do. I don't think dropping tools for a game and letting the community do whatever, would work like it did with CE where it was a very niche community and where the current game was taking the industry by storm. Perhaps having there be gatekeepers to work with certain people to get content on the platform would work, but then you introduce a whole new set of issues too.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Full mod support for Halo would be amazing!

I just hope Microsoft won't limit mod support on pc because of parity with the Xbone. A Bethesda-like mod platform should be optional instead of being mandatory for mods on pc.
 
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Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
Infinite almost needs modtools immediately or after its launch because forge can only do so much.
I mean, why though? From what little I've seen, Forge seems more than powerful enough for what it needs to be. What kind of tools are you expecting?
Full mod support for Halo would be amazing!

I just hope Microsoft won't limit mod support on pc because of parity with the Xbone. A Bethesda-like mod platform should be optional instead of being mandatory for mods on pc.
They absoluetely are going to have some kind of limit, soft or hard, for any kind of custom content to ensure it can work on a standard Xbox One. Microsoft is unlikely going to do something if it's not completely going to service their audience on consoles.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
I mean, why though? From what little I've seen, Forge seems more than powerful enough for what it needs to be. What kind of tools are you expecting?

They absoluetely are going to have some kind of limit, soft or hard, for any kind of custom content to ensure it can work on a standard Xbox One. Microsoft is unlikely going to do something if it's not completely going to service their audience on consoles.
AI, Custom Scripts, Models, etc. Stuff the game cannot offer to some mod creators. New weapons entirely etc.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
In short, mod support would be a real double edge sword for them, although I'd love to see what comes out of it. But I can't see it being anything but a headache for 343 to do. I don't think dropping tools for a game and letting the community do whatever, would work like it did with CE where it was a very niche community and where the current game was taking the industry by storm. Perhaps having there be gatekeepers to work with certain people to get content on the platform would work, but then you introduce a whole new set of issues too.

That's a fair concern but I think, big picture-wise, those elements of the community wouldn't control the message anymore than the folk that parrot the "X Bethesda game is trash, get mods to make it good" line.