Is punk the most potentially problematic music genre
- Thread starter TI92
- Start date
Minor Threat? Lol OP....you are a few decades too late. Also, the most problematic genre? This cant be a serious question.
You do know Ian McKaye went on to create Fugazi after MT, right? Fugazi is one of the most progressive minded bands of its time.
Also, reading that GQ article, it reminds me of a time back in the 90s when we went to see Avail in Paramus, NJ at a VFW Hall. Some Nazis showed up, started being rowdy / assholes, and then were systematically dismantled and kicked out by the band. It was the best ‘shame in real time’ moment I’ve ever witnessed in my life.
The scene keeps it honest, assholes and racists aren’t tolerated by 99% of it.
The scene keeps it honest, assholes and racists aren’t tolerated by 99% of it.
You can find examples of poor language and words from any genre from days long past.
The descendants used fag, gay etc in lyrics and I don’t for a second believe they are homophobic.
The Clash was also a pretty liberal progressive band and the language and behavior I’ve seen and heard from some of their movies/docs would suggest they were homophobic in today’s world, but I don’t think for a second they were.
The descendants used fag, gay etc in lyrics and I don’t for a second believe they are homophobic.
The Clash was also a pretty liberal progressive band and the language and behavior I’ve seen and heard from some of their movies/docs would suggest they were homophobic in today’s world, but I don’t think for a second they were.
There are lots of bigger black metal bands with nationalist/ neo nazi lyrics.
Some are quite open about it while others aren‘t that obvious at first glance.
His life and death were...interesting to say the least.
When I saw this thread was about Minor Threat I was sure it was going to be about the song 12XU.
Yeah, when we talk about outright white supremacists, metal seems to be where most of these bands land. But of course there are plenty of metal bands that push back against that as well.
Guilty of Being White is certainly problematic, but it's also a song written by an 18 year old in 1980, and not really a strong indictment of the band as a whole let alone the genre. Showing up with a racist shirt would probably get your ass kicked at lot of hardcore shows.
Punk has always been about not-being-conform. At the peak of the Brit movement, punks bathed their leather jackets in urine.
Punks were against the system, against conformism, against the rules.
So if today it is expected everything to be politically-correct, you can expect punk not to follow the trend.
Punks were against the system, against conformism, against the rules.
So if today it is expected everything to be politically-correct, you can expect punk not to follow the trend.
Kinda weird thread because of one song. It's a pretty bad song but it comes from a certain frustation that the dude had, it was never meant in anyway to be racist. Minor Treat was propped up by Bad Brains after all.
At a n old forum I went to "Burzum" was a topic tag and there was a guy with the lead singer as his avatar. Turns out the lead singer is a fascist nutjob who was convicted of arson and murder. I think metal is just super, super white so white supremacist types feel safe doing their thing.
As for OP, punk is generally characterized by non conformity and self expression. It's why you'll find both a skinhead punk movement and a queer punk movement - polar opposites.
Nazi punks fuck off.
This. Also hypermasculine. And nerdy. And it fetishizes a lot of fantasy and viking tropes that racists confuse for "European heritiage." None of which is racist by definition, but it's sort of a magnet for racist neckbeards.
Last edited:
I know metal gets a bad rep from a lot of angles, probably cause right wing nazi asshats often listen to heavier stuff, but honestly? I've never met a metal head who had any racist tendencies. The most liberal and open minded people I ever meet are the metal heads. So the whole thing baffles me.
My girlfriend is black and a metalhead, and whenever she finds a new band she likes, she has to google them and make sure they aren't racist or fascist. It's common enough that it's something she has to be cognizant of in negotiating her fandom.
In fairness, if you selected a group of 100 white dudes at random, statistically like 35 of them are probably racist, so I don't know if it's anything about metal in particular.
Heres what the lead singer of minor thr3dat has to say about the song:
“Guilty of Being White” is in no way a song about racism, it’s a song about being the minority, and being on the short end of the straw resulting in racial ass beatings. Eventually, some nut job heard the song and felt it was speaking to him in some racial sense and, of course, Minor Threat’s message got blown out of proportion. MacKaye, while discussing this, made an excellent point. “I never thought I’d have to deal with that kind of thing. In fact, I never thought I’d be talking about those lyrics with anyone. I wrote those songs for my group of friends and myself. I didn’t think I’d be having this conversation with all of you about it over twenty years later.”
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/consequenceofsound.net/2010/06/icons-of-rock-ian-mackaye/amp/
I wouldn't say that's problematic but I'm no expert.
“Guilty of Being White” is in no way a song about racism, it’s a song about being the minority, and being on the short end of the straw resulting in racial ass beatings. Eventually, some nut job heard the song and felt it was speaking to him in some racial sense and, of course, Minor Threat’s message got blown out of proportion. MacKaye, while discussing this, made an excellent point. “I never thought I’d have to deal with that kind of thing. In fact, I never thought I’d be talking about those lyrics with anyone. I wrote those songs for my group of friends and myself. I didn’t think I’d be having this conversation with all of you about it over twenty years later.”
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/consequenceofsound.net/2010/06/icons-of-rock-ian-mackaye/amp/
I wouldn't say that's problematic but I'm no expert.
Let's use this thread to post our favourite anti-fascist/anti-racist punk songs.
Propagandhi - The Only Good Fascist Is A Very Dead Fascist
Dead Cross with Jello Biafra - Nazi Trump Fuck Off
Propagandhi - The Only Good Fascist Is A Very Dead Fascist
Dead Cross with Jello Biafra - Nazi Trump Fuck Off
Yessss. I was hoping someone would bring up Leftöver Crack. Nazi White Trash is a fantastic track. I think this version should post correctly:
Another one is Gang Control, which has one of my favorite openers of any track:
To anyone who doesn't know, Leftöver Crack's whole schtick is a really rough, up in your face crust punk call to arms. It's very conscious while also being extremely abrasive, which kinda makes sense coming from a band of crackheads.
I've always been of the mind that there was a turning point for punk where it went from a policy of "fuck everyone" to "fight for everyone" because they needed an outlet for rage against the modern world. Black Flag is especially like this, being very introspective while also combative against the status quo. Hell, Henry Rollins performs at LGBTQ events. What caused this switch is somewhat nebulous, but it seemed to have happened for the betterment of the genre.
I suppose its different in different places. And I did meet some great people, but 90% of the people I met through metal in my time playing death metal across Europe, were awful in their views on race/gender/sexuality.
I mean, until you present evidence that this is a systemic problem in punk and not just one song that rubbed you the wrong way, yeah I'd say it's lazy.
EDIT: and yeah, as other posters have mentioned punk has historically been BY FAR the most leftist music there is.
I always think of the folk punk stuff as well, like Billy Bragg, he always drifted genres, but that's really what punk was about. Pure Anti-Fa and Socialist.
I avoided this thread because I thought it was just going to be about skinhead bands.
But then I read it and see OP used Guilty of Being White as the example.
I think maybe you misunderstood the song.
But then I read it and see OP used Guilty of Being White as the example.
I think maybe you misunderstood the song.
Yeah, that one is pretty egregious. Especially considering it’s a cover song in which he just added that bit.
He denied it for years and then eventually stopped entertaining the question outright. But it’s pretty clear.
More punk anti-racism:
I know there is some nazi black metal bands but I wouldn't call them big. I don't think that a section of a small sub genre is reflective of Metal as a whole. Like I said, I can't think of a song with problematic lyrics from a big metal band. Maybe there is!
What does "self-policing" even mean, anyway?
Because if it's by shunning NSBM as fringe, it's already the case, they never get billed in major (or even mid-tiers) festivals and concerts.
lol
Bigger? Like who? Burzum is the most famous black metal band and the guy is a racist shithead as a person, but his music isn't about that (as far as I know) but the generic pagan/fantasy stuff.
The "biggest" black metal band I can think of with actual white supremacist lyrics is probably Nokturnal Mortum, and they're not exactly "big" at all, really.
Uh, yeah, those are not "big" by any stretch of the imagination.
Punk definetly has a sizeable right wing base, but also a sizeable leftwing. Like sure, it's inherently anti-establishment, but that doesn't mean much when the right wing nazi shitheads believe their thoughts to be "anti-establishment".
Metal has the issue of people just not talking about it, really. The whole genre is permeated with masturbatory masculinity shit. While the big openly nazi groups dont get much play at large places, never in my life have i ever met so many people spouting the "who cares if he's a nazi he is singing about nature/whocaresthemusicisgood" arguments.
I feel like in general a lot of the edgelord "i hate everything" peeps who specifically where all about metal and punk in their teens are now turning to more racist beliefs. I feel it kinda comes with the constant narrative from the extreme right posing as "anti-establishment", and some idiots are so goddamn gullible and starved for "individuality" and attention that they jump on the latest edgelord train and then they buy into that shit.
Metal has the issue of people just not talking about it, really. The whole genre is permeated with masturbatory masculinity shit. While the big openly nazi groups dont get much play at large places, never in my life have i ever met so many people spouting the "who cares if he's a nazi he is singing about nature/whocaresthemusicisgood" arguments.
I feel like in general a lot of the edgelord "i hate everything" peeps who specifically where all about metal and punk in their teens are now turning to more racist beliefs. I feel it kinda comes with the constant narrative from the extreme right posing as "anti-establishment", and some idiots are so goddamn gullible and starved for "individuality" and attention that they jump on the latest edgelord train and then they buy into that shit.
Gotta agree with the people saying metal. Racism, misogyny, white supremacy, nazism, antisemitism, all that isn't too hard find when looking into certain corners of the metal world. Most of that is relegated to the more extreme metal genres, with black metal being the worst offender. But even then that's a pretty small subsection of black metal as whole. You also have a lot of extreme metal bands that will write about "problematic" subjects while not actually endorsing them. For example The Hangman of Prague is easily one of the best Marduk songs, but they're not a NSBM band at all.
Last edited:
There was a lot of racist punk back in the 90’s and early 2000’s. It seems like that demo has shifted to metal now.
It’s funny because punk also had the most left wing crowd too. Punk was and is whatever you make it.
It’s funny because punk also had the most left wing crowd too. Punk was and is whatever you make it.
this video has a content warning because youtube sucks so fucking much
Ugh... Fucking snowflakes. Ooh, so scary, a song saying fuck you to Nazis.
Obviously metal isn't popular, and death metal is even less popular than that, and a band like Arghoslent is some real underground stuff, so I'd say that any real impact of "problematic" metal bands is basically nil, it's a niche of a niche of a niche. I don't think anyone is going to start hating Jews just because Hobo Of Aramaic Tongues has a sick opening riff.
edit: a quick google shows that you can totally buy Arghoslent albums on Bandcamp. I'm surprised that's not a ToS violation.
Last edited:
Infant Annihilator lyrics are purely for over the top shock value. They're not problematic at all because even the band makes it known that they're just fucking around to play the heaviest, gnarliest shit possible musically and lyrically.
The first time I tried to post that song it said that the video had been taken down because it was deemed offensive. Meanwhile, bands like Skrewdriver have full albums available. YouTube is a joke.
Try listening to the following albums:
Refused - The shape of Punk to come
Propagandhi - Supporting Caste
Strung Out - Exile in Oblivion
None of these are very recent releases, but seeing as how you're mentioning Minor Threat as a point of reference, these should give you some idea about the evolution of Punk in recent times. Strung Out is probably the easiest of these bands to get into and they're also the least preachy, conversely Refused are on the other end of the spectrum. Propagandhi deserve a special mention as these guys are probably the strongest and most consistent Punk band operating right now.
The leftwing is far bigger than the rightwing to the point that ringwing punks can't feel safe at most mainstream punk shows.
Death and black metal are infuriatingly infested with this.
The music and even its imagery was born from the blues, what the fuck is wrong with these people?
Fucking trash, the entire worthless sub genres should be thrown in the garbage and lit on fire.
Last edited:
