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Is Smash Bros a fighting game / why do some players insist on it not being one?

fireflame

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,275
I have sometimes read people on discord stating that Smash Bros was not a real fight game. I was wondering why it wouldn't be a fight game and if there is any reason to refuse considering it like this. There are fight games more accessible than others, so certainly the argument of accessibility doesn't hold.

It is hard to compare it with other fighters as the goal is to kick the opponent out of the arena. otherwise can't see any other reason.Other than console warring, is there any serious argument to hold to claim it is not a fight game?
 

BlakeofT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
921
I've always considered it a fighting game and thought that anyone who wants to argue about it just wants to argue about something.
 

Deleted member 6263

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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People sometimes look to their hobbies for a source of identity, sometimes to the point of obsession. Any new or different thing that could come across as "de-legitimatizing" their identity is deemed a threat to their manliness.

Or they're just a bunch of nerds who are angry at life and want something to argue about, take your pick.
 
Gundam

Gundam

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Oct 25, 2017
12,801
It doesn't play like what most people think of when they think of "Fighting Game" - That's something that people associate with specific gameplay elements, not just the idea of characters fighting.

That said, I think Smash is a fighting game, albeit in a distinct sub-genre from 2D fighters and 3D fighters. I'd even put Tag fighters in their own genre.
 
Hanbei

Hanbei

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Nov 11, 2017
4,089
It never was, and will never be (personal opinion only). But as long as it's fun, it doesn't make any difference if it's a fighting game or not.
 
Brakke

Brakke

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Oct 27, 2017
3,798
Why don't you ask the people who you know actually believe this rather than asking us to speculate on what other people might believe.
 
Naga

Naga

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Because that would mean their favorite fighting game (usually Street Fighter or Tekken) is not the most popular anymore by X metric that Smash has already beaten.

Also just a running joke for some trolls.
 
The Unsent

The Unsent

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Oct 25, 2017
19,618
Smash Bros is just a theme park not a real fighting game, blah blah, I think too highly of my own taste.
 

Doof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,434
Kentucky
Gundam said:
It doesn't play like what most people think of when they think of "Fighting Game" - That's something that people associate with specific gameplay elements, not just the idea of characters fighting.

That said, I think Smash is a fighting game, albeit in a distinct sub-genre from 2D fighters and 3D fighters. I'd even put Tag fighters in their own genre.
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steviestar3 said:
It's a platform fighter, which is a type of fighting game.
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These two are the best answers, OP. Smash is a platform fighter, which is a subgenre of fighting game, along with 2D and 3D fighters. Hell, you can even break 2D fighters down even more, with anime fighters (Stuff like GG and UNIEL) and more traditional fighters (SF, SamSho).
 
Apollo

Apollo

Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,203
It's absolutely a fighting game, just built with a ton of customizability, which lends itself to a wide variety of playstyles.
 
Unknownlight

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
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Nov 2, 2017
10,687
"Fighting game" is a genre with sub-genres.
  • Fighting Game
    • Traditional Fighter
    • Arena Fighter
    • Platform Fighter
    • Maybe another I'm not thinking of?
Some people only consider traditional fighters to be "true" fighting games for some reason.
 
Hyun Sai

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
Because if it's more popular than a Capcom game it's not a fighting game.

It is a fighting game
 
Mr.Deadshot

Mr.Deadshot

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Oct 27, 2017
20,285
It's a party game, just like Mario Kart, Mario Party and Singstar :)

Seriously, why isn't it a fighting game? It's obviously a fighting game.
 
Josh5890

Josh5890

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The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
24,090
It is a fighting game. To say otherwise, idk.
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,990
"smash isn't a fighting game"/"smash is a party game" became a meme because the gameplay that made it famous was free-for-all on wacky stages with oodles of items. the concept of a competitive ruleset didn't even get acknowledged in-game for multiple entries.

r/kappa posters embrace the meme because they wanted to tease the game that was different.
people like the 14-year-old version of me from years ago embraced the meme because we hated the idea of making smash anything other than absolute chaos. Of course, since then, I've go over myself and most smash I play is competitive rules.

see also: no items, fox only, final destination.

people do quibble over subgenres sometimes, but you're more likely to be reading posts from hecklers than genre purists.
 
Naga

Naga

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Hanbei said:
It never was, and will never be (personal opinion only). But as long as it's fun, it doesn't make any difference if it's a fighting game or not.
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Lady Bow said:
Why?
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Greywaren

Greywaren

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Jul 16, 2019
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It has the only two conditions required to classify something as a fighting game:
1) It's a game
2) You fight

So it's a fighting game.
 
flashman92

flashman92

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Feb 15, 2018
4,583
I thought it was just a matter of common parlance. "Fighting games" doesn't really have a strict definition, but the most popular things people called fighting games either resembled Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter, and so out of habit, that's just what fighting games are to people. Arena fighters aren't lumped in with fighting games even though they existed right alongside them. Nor were other games where your main objective is to beat each other up and drain their health (Arguably Metal Warriors and Smash have more in common with each other than either do to Street Fighter).

When someone says they like fighting games, they usually don't mean Smash, just like they don't mean Virtual On.

But assuming this isn't about gate keeping and it's just semantics, just be clear with your terms, and if an argument ensues, whichever side you're on really isn't worth defending. Just give in to the other and enjoy the rest of your day.

EDIT: Trying to incorporate things like sub genres (traditional, platformer, arena) I feel goes against how we normally talk about these games. If Fighting game is an umbrella term that covers all those subgenres which have very little to do with each other, then it's about as useless as the RPG genre.
 
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NSESN

NSESN

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Oct 25, 2017
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Didnt Sakurai get the inpiration to make smash after playing KoF?
It even has the same style of invitation letters. Definitely a fighting game
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

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Oct 25, 2017
35,960
Naga said:
Because that would mean their favorite fighting game (usually Street Fighter or Tekken) is not the most popular anymore by X metric that Smash has already beaten.

Also just a running joke for some trolls.
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That would be Mortal Kombat by a wide margin

Anyway, my take: Yes, it's a fighting game. It's not a traditional fighting game. Neither are Arena fighters.
 
Imran

Imran

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Oct 24, 2017
6,873
flashman92 said:
"Fighting games" doesn't really have a strict definition, but the most popular things people called fighting games either resembled Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter, and so out of habit, that's just what fighting games are to people.
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I like how fighting is inexplicably the only genre that works like this.

Racing games can be whatever, character action games change massively with every developer title, adventure basically means nothing, but FIGHTING GAMES. That's the only pure-blooded one.
 
Shadoken

Shadoken

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Oct 25, 2017
4,227
The same reason we use genre labels for anything else.

When people say this they usually refer to Traditional Fighting games. Like if someone says they are a fan of racing games , you don't assume stuff like CTR or Mario Kart since those are referred to as Kart Racers. But really they are all just racing games.
 
Eros

Eros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,774
Party/platforming fighting game.

Observation: Smash and FGC do kind of seem to be oil and water.

Imran said:
I like how fighting is inexplicably the only genre that works like this.

Racing games can be whatever, character action games change massively with every developer title, adventure basically means nothing, but FIGHTING GAMES. That's the only pure-blooded one.
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RPG has this, but it doesn't get as heated as the Smash/fighting game conversations.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
It's always made the most sense to place it in the fighting game genre to me, but it's certainly not a traditional one.
 
jacket

jacket

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Oct 25, 2017
10,067
I always took it as salty "in-joke" FGC nerds getting out their frustration with Melee being a dominant figure in the scene for nearly 20 years despite not being a fighting game.
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

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Oct 25, 2017
35,960
Imran said:
I like how fighting is inexplicably the only genre that works like this.

Racing games can be whatever,
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Not quite. If I brought up Mario Kart in a thread about "Best Racing games of the gen", some (i.e. quite a few) would take issue with it, and it wouldn't be because they disagree with the quality.
 
Shadoken

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,227
flashman92 said:
When someone says they like fighting games, they usually don't mean Smash, just like they don't mean Virtual On.

But assuming this isn't about gate keeping and it's just semantics, just be clear with your terms, and if an argument ensues, whichever side you're on really isn't worth defending. Just give in to the other and enjoy the rest of your day.

EDIT: Trying to incorporate things like sub genres (traditional, platformer, arena) I feel goes against how we normally talk about these games. If Fighting game is an umbrella term that covers all those subgenres which have very little to do with each other, then it's about as useless as the RPG genre.
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This... Its always weird to see both sides argue over it. Smash fans will say FGC is elitist and FGC will say Smash isn't a Fighting game.
At this point might as well call everything an RPG.

Naga said:
Because that would mean their favorite fighting game (usually Street Fighter or Tekken) is not the most popular anymore by X metric that Smash has already beaten.
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What does that have to do with anything ? So if someday Tekken or SF become bigger than Smash then suddenly Smash is not a fighting game ?
 

Deleted member 401

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Oct 25, 2017
11,251
Hanbei said:
Party game =/= fighting game.
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There are basically two definitions of party game. One is a multiplayer minigame collection, which Smash is not. The other is a local multiplayer game you can play at a casual get-together, which can, in practice, potentially refer to any local multiplayer game of any genre, a broad enough descriptor that it's basically useless.

I've seen Injustice played at parties, does that suddenly make it a party game rather than a fighting game?
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

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Oct 25, 2017
35,960
In terms of people who play fighting games at all, there generally seems to be two sides:

A lot of people who focus on one or two traditional fighting games, also tend to play other traditional fighting games - but not Smash.

Most who play Smash, tend to only play Smash and not any traditional fighting games.

There's extremely little crossover (basing all this on Evo registration figures).

And so we end up with some people on one side saying things like Smash isn't a fighting game, and some people on the other saying silly things about traditional fighters that they don't have the first clue about.

Kind of embarrassing all round.
 
MikeProtagonist

MikeProtagonist

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Oct 26, 2017
7,539
Greywaren said:
It has the only two conditions required to classify something as a fighting game:
1) It's a game
2) You fight

So it's a fighting game.
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Undertale is a fighting game confirmed.

But really, I guess Smash could be classified as a fighting game, but it stretches the definition so far as to be pointless. If the definition begins with Street Fighter, then Smash needs to set specific rules to reach that: a limited playing arena, power bars, a timed battle, a big move set per character (which it still doesn't get). "Competitive play" is basically a sub-mode within Smash, like a versus mode in a complete non-fighter.

Several specific similar genres with fighting have major differences. If you have free roaming with multiple enemies, it's a beat'em up instead. If it has no power bars and/or time limits and generally more open arenas, it's some kind of fighting simulation like wrestling games or, basically, Bushido Blade. If you have specific boss battles and/or trash enemies, it's more of a character action game like Bayonetta or Metamoqester. But then there are also hybrids like Warzard, etc.

Smash Bros is its own little sub genre, with Playstation All-Stars and that PS2 Konami crossover game. I'd say it's actually more related to games like Duck Game or Towerfall than traditional fighters. Arena fighters?
 
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