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Is XCOM 2 / WOTC the best turn-based strategy game?
- Thread starter Dance Inferno
- Start date
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I'll have to look into this, I like the Warhammer aesthetic and enjoy TBS games, so should be up my alley. Might grab it in the next Steam sale.
Yes and it's not even close. It's a league of its own.
It's also the best crossover in all of universal fiction.
It's also the best crossover in all of universal fiction.
Okay, whew: went through the Steam Workshop and downloaded mods suggested in this thread and whatever fanfiction bullshit I found interesting on top of it.
If anything is missing, or there are conflicts, I'd love to hear about them.
Not sure how the voice packs work, so haven't included any of those. As I said, I'm hoping these mods are just additions and doesn't actually replace anything, so if that's also true for voice packs then I'll add those later.
If anything is missing, or there are conflicts, I'd love to hear about them.
Not sure how the voice packs work, so haven't included any of those. As I said, I'm hoping these mods are just additions and doesn't actually replace anything, so if that's also true for voice packs then I'll add those later.
Im cautiously excited for Marvel Suns but goddamn I want Xcom 3
One day... one day...
Into the Breach is absolutely fantastic and it's a triumph of videogame design, but it is not only socially but also techno-philosophically inferior to XCOM2.
Now, if you said FTL... now that game might surpass XCOM2, but it's not turn based.
I'd give the vote to Jagged Alliance 2. That's been the king of the genre for me since it was released.
A quote from The Player of Games
All reality is a game. Physics at its most fundamental, the very fabric of our universe, results directly from the interaction of certain fairly simple r...
www.goodreads.com
It's a joke that Into the Breach doesn't rely on chance (almost)
I think I set aside Wasteland 3 because of how insanely difficult it is to procure ammo and weapons...I just finished the level where the crazy people were creating suicide bombing pigs, so not too far into the game. But ammo management is more stressful than Last of us. I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. I guess it's good place as any to ask... any tips?
Ah, then I actually quite like that! Making the player feel real ownership of their outcomes is what I love most about that game. When I succeed, it generally feels like it's because I was clever, and when I lose, it's because I was not. That is a tough needle to thread and I'm not sure I've ever played anything that does it so well as Into the Breach.A quote from The Player of Games
All reality is a game. Physics at its most fundamental, the very fabric of our universe, results directly from the interaction of certain fairly simple r...www.goodreads.com
It's a joke that Into the Breach doesn't rely on chance (almost)
Either buy from vendors of craft from scrap (I think there is a specific skill that allows you to craft more ammo with less scrap). It also depends on the guns you use, and how many people are using the same guns. That said, you're probably on the peak moment of difficulty in that game. It gets more manageable.
Into the Beach topped it for me, but that's about it. Invisible Inc. comes in third.
XCOM 2 is a great fucking time, snowball-y power curve and jank aside. I think it's telling that anytime a game is mentioned having gameplay "like XCOM" it typically isn't even remotely as good as XCOM 2.
XCOM 2 is a great fucking time, snowball-y power curve and jank aside. I think it's telling that anytime a game is mentioned having gameplay "like XCOM" it typically isn't even remotely as good as XCOM 2.
I really like Wasteland 3, though it's more focused on the RPG aspect than the tactical aspect like XCOM. I still think in terms of combat and the strategic layers only, XCOM is the king.
Have at least 1-2 melee/brawler squad members earlier on in the game - helps you manage ammo a lot easier. Melees are also awesome damage dealers once they're upgraded a bit. Many people go for heavies because of the tanky damage output, but you can burn $30+ of ammo PER ATTACK that way which is an absolute killer in the early game when resources are scarcer. Also try to spread around what ammo type everyone is using. Don't have three characters pulling from the same ammo type for their primary weapon, for example (this can easily happen with 5.56, 7.62 and .50 if you're not careful).
The biggest pitfall I see is people running .50cal MGs on their heavies early on, when .50cal is rare, expensive as shit, and also probably needed by your sniper(s). And that reminds me - snipers are great for efficient ammo use too. I always run 2 on my playthroughs.
I also burn a lot of scrap in the first half of the game simply making my own ammunition, because scrap is more plentiful than cash early on. I think you need someone with weapon modding to craft ammo, IIRC (which you'll want anyway for upgrades).
Wasteland 3 is an excellent game and I highly recommend picking it up again.
Have at least 1-2 melee/brawler squad members earlier on in the game - helps you manage ammo a lot easier. Melees are also awesome damage dealers once they're upgraded a bit. Many people go for heavies because of the tanky damage output, but you can burn $30+ of ammo PER ATTACK that way which is an absolute killer in the early game when resources are scarcer. Also try to spread around what ammo type everyone is using. Don't have three characters pulling from the same ammo type for their primary weapon, for example (this can easily happen with 5.56, 7.62 and .50 if you're not careful).
The biggest pitfall I see is people running .50cal MGs on their heavies early on, when .50cal is rare, expensive as shit, and also probably needed by your sniper(s). And that reminds me - snipers are great for efficient ammo use too. I always run 2 on my playthroughs.
I also burn a lot of scrap in the first half of the game simply making my own ammunition, because scrap is more plentiful than cash early on. I think you need someone with weapon modding to craft ammo, IIRC (which you'll want anyway for upgrades).
Wasteland 3 is an excellent game and I highly recommend picking it up again.
Thanks, this is helpful. Didn't think much about brawlers and yeah 3 guys are using same ammo. Gonna respec.
Seems this game uses an official emulated controller support configuration, rather than native controls.
Not the end of the world, but the official configuration has camera control on the left analog stick, rather than the right. Is there an easy way to swap the configurations around, or will I have to manually copy the settings myself?
Do any of the aforementioned camera mods help make camera control more controller-friendly?
Also, when I "subscribe" to a Workshop mod, is the mod activated automatically when starting the game?
Not the end of the world, but the official configuration has camera control on the left analog stick, rather than the right. Is there an easy way to swap the configurations around, or will I have to manually copy the settings myself?
Do any of the aforementioned camera mods help make camera control more controller-friendly?
Also, when I "subscribe" to a Workshop mod, is the mod activated automatically when starting the game?
This is my answer. X Com 2 is great, but Into the Breach is nearly perfect in my eyes
Jagged Alliance 2 buddy, just about the most robust turnbased strategy you will ever play. It's got some RPG elements and a successful campaign requires lots of logistics and long term planning instead of just combat.
Silent Storm is great as well. It is in 3d and has fully destructible buildings that affect your strategy (you can shoot a rocket at the ceiling of a building and make the 2nd floor collapse, or just blow a hole in a building and then have a sniper hit who he can through the hole).
I don't want to be elitist, but I have never played any strategy game that did the whole "you can have each unit do one attack and one movement per turn" thing. I like action points, as they give you much more flexibility in how you strategize. They might be more complicated but theres plenty of ways games like Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm make it clear how many points you are using so miscalculations happen rarely (they still will happen though)
Silent Storm is great as well. It is in 3d and has fully destructible buildings that affect your strategy (you can shoot a rocket at the ceiling of a building and make the 2nd floor collapse, or just blow a hole in a building and then have a sniper hit who he can through the hole).
I don't want to be elitist, but I have never played any strategy game that did the whole "you can have each unit do one attack and one movement per turn" thing. I like action points, as they give you much more flexibility in how you strategize. They might be more complicated but theres plenty of ways games like Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm make it clear how many points you are using so miscalculations happen rarely (they still will happen though)
Xcom EW with the long war mod is still my favorite. Going through that game on Ironman impossible was an experience I'll never forget.
Same, it's a fantastic soundtrack. Some tracks give me a Deus Ex vibe, and when I looked it up, apparently the same composer that did Human Revolution and Mankind Divided also did XCOM1. Firaxis always excel with that, the Civ series has incredible music as well.
And yep, it's the best tactics game I've played. I do love Mario & Rabbids as well, really looking forward to the sequel. But yeah XCOM 2 WotC is the pinnacle, just so addictive and satisfying to play.
As an aside, I think Chimera Squad was maybe slightly underappreciated. It's not the same scale or as deep as WotC, but I still really enjoyed it, still had that Xcom satisfaction. And even more of the infamous bugs :/
I always wanted to play that game. Do you know if its a recommended version available (Steam, GOG, other) and if I need to search some mods to make in playable in the current systems or to improve the game?
Btw, every time someone messes with Midnight Suns before we know if it's a good game or not, XCOM 3 is delayed a month.
Fans of the genre shouldn't sleep on Troubleshooter.
It's like X-Com and Final Fantasy Tactics had a baby
View: https://store.steampowered.com/app/470310/TROUBLESHOOTER_Abandoned_Children/
It's like X-Com and Final Fantasy Tactics had a baby
View: https://store.steampowered.com/app/470310/TROUBLESHOOTER_Abandoned_Children/
No, they are automatically downloaded but not activated. You need to activate them in the game launcher screen.
And to make sure they are properly activated (as i had some issues last time i reinstalled the game), i recommend using the custom launcher i linked ealier (the github link).
As for the voicepacks, this is pure additions. Basically, the soldiers will say some things during battle, when the move, when shoot, etc etc. And in the soldiers customisations, you can choose the voice the soldier will use. By default, you have like 5 choices per languages (so you can have 1 soldier speaking english, 1 spanish, 1 german, etc). Using modded voicepacks add new voices to these pools of voices. So say you use customisation options to have a squad of full Mass Effect characters, you can also have them all have their proper voices. Voice Packs won't break anything in the game. Apart from your loading times. :p
Thanks, I'll make sure to download the mod manager next.
But I'm not sure I have controller support setup properly: the game has an option to detect a controller, but using the Steam controller profile seems to switch it back to a kb/m UI.
Does the game have native controller support, and if so then how do I get it working? Am I supposed to use the Steam profile or turn all that off?
I tried this game and it just never gets going. I dropped it after I got my second party member(the red panda girl) cause I got bored.
This game seems more FFT style than Xcom; bloated HP stats and more managing cooldowns.
I don't think i've really dug into one since Laser Squad. I guess Advance wars but that did'nt have AP you can decide how to move/attack/overwatch its a simpler move/attack. Still like it a lot but often things feel compressed - units have too much movement/fire range to allow careful progress, it forces more aggressive action which can be hit or miss (literally)
I do have all the xcom games except WOTC on steam though, just never really spent time with them
edit: I now have all the xcom games including WOTC..
I do have all the xcom games except WOTC on steam though, just never really spent time with them
edit: I now have all the xcom games including WOTC..
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Eh, ITB is a cute, neat little game with some clever design idea, but I don't think it's even REMOTELY in the same league of several of the titles mentioned here, let alone the "heavyweights" of the genre like the original UFO, JA2 or War of the Chosen.
I think it's probably the best total package, especially with mods factored in, though I have my issues with it. (For the record, those are: kind of a janky, unvaried strategic layer in service to a pretty mediocre narrative; difficulty curve is kind of goofy so you spend more than half the game stomping; power creep for both you and the enemy mean fights are often alpha or be alpha'd; hitches and general performance issues; and the worldbuilding doesn't do much for me.)
The Long War mod for the previous game tops it in some respect, and there are a host of indies that do specific things better or achieve specific effects better: The Banner Saga, BATTLETECH, Into the Breach, Invisible, Inc., etc.
The Long War mod for the previous game tops it in some respect, and there are a host of indies that do specific things better or achieve specific effects better: The Banner Saga, BATTLETECH, Into the Breach, Invisible, Inc., etc.
My main issues with the modern XCOMs are the pod system, the line of sight system and the stealth system. All of them combine to severely limit your options on the battlefield and I hope XCOM 3 makes changes to more closely resemble the originals. Phoenix Point is not a good game but it has a few neat ideas that could work well in an XCOM game.
Buy this: https://www.gog.com/en/game/jagged_alliance_2 (this is the base game. The stand-alone expansion pack is also available on GOG).
Or buy this: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1620/Jagged_Alliance_2_Gold/ (this is the base game + stand-alone expansion pack).
And I highly recommend running the game using this: https://ja2-stracciatella.github.io/
Running the original game is a bit tricky since it uses 16-bit colour depth, is limited to 640x480, and doesn't have window support. The Straciatella project removes those limitations and fixes a bunch of bugs (fair warning, though, the game still isn't 100% bug-free. There are some rare bugs that the community hasn't been able to fix yet).
There's also the v1.13 project that's pretty popular, but it can still be a bit annoying to run since it still uses 16-bit colour depth and doesn't support windowed mode. It also changes a LOT about the game. A lot of the changes are about making the game a lot more realistic, and I personally believe it ended up sacrificing quite a bit of playability. It's also much more buggy than playing Straciatella. I think checking out v1.13 is a better idea once you've played through the vanilla game first.
Also, one warning about JA2 in general: The game is from an era where it was pretty common to read the manual before playing the game. Expect to be VERY overwhelmed when you first boot it up. I can remember watching a streamer last year play the game for the first time. He hated the first few hours of the game because the game kept throwing systems in his face without properly explaining them, but he eventually learned all the systems and by the time he was done it ended up being one of his favourite games ever.
I should mention that the expansion pack has pretty bad support in the community. Straciatella doesn't support it, unfortunately, and I can't remember if v1.13 has support for it, either. While still fun, the expansion pack is much less interesting than the main game. It has a very linear campaign with most strategy elements from the base game stripped away.
Into the Breach is 100% in the same ballpark as most games mentioned here, XCOM2 being the sole exception. It's a masterclass of game design that creates an infinite number of possibilities in a seemingly simple framework.
A
Being a game with virtually no meaningful overarching campaign and a basically-vestigial strategic layer is TOO detrimental to its overall appeal, as far as I'm concerned.
No matter how cute their puzzle-fights may be individually.
It's the same problem with Invisible Inc., incidentally, that feels more like the vague prototype of game-to-be rather than what' I'd want from a fully realized product in this genre.
I played Into the Breach and I'm very aware of how I rate it.
Being a game with virtually no meaningful overarching campaign and a basically-vestigial strategic layer is TOO detrimental to its overall appeal, as far as I'm concerned.
No matter how cute their puzzle-fights may be individually.
It's the same problem with Invisible Inc., incidentally, that feels more like the vague prototype of game-to-be rather than what' I'd want from a fully realized product in this genre.
What didn't you like about Phoenix Point? I haven't played it yet, but it's something I've been planning to play after finishing XCOM2 (which is a game I found disappointing in many ways).
I enjoy the gameplay but really don't find the Xcom setting to be very interesting. I enjoyed Gears Tactics as I felt that they icorporated the feel of a Gears game into that very nicely. Though it got to be a bit of a slog towards the end (just having to do side missions to progress)
To each their own—I liked Enemy Unknown back when it came out. I ended up trying XCOM 2 only after playing ItB, it didn't really do anything for me, and I uninstalled it after a couple of hours.
Oh man, where to start. I really wanted to like it, it has some really cool ideas but the game is unbalanced and boring. Missions lack tension and some are straight up broken, character skills are largely worthless (I almost never used them), the weapon and armor upgrades aren't meaningful so there's no excitement when you get new equipment, there are still many bugs with the interface and enemy AI, there's too much micromanagement instead of interesting strategic choices on the geoscape. I played the Year One edition but it felt like the game needed a couple more years in the oven. It just isn't fun to play.
I actually liked the turn timer. Playing the game more aggressively made me have a lot more fun while making my mission times way shorter.
It was also very well balanced. Forgiving enough to rarely be a real issue (and I don't think I've EVER lost a mission to one), but in these rare moments it became a pressing matter it made for some of the most memorable moments in a campaign.
And just to prove that for some people it was just a case of "letting the mood suggestion you": WoTC introduced a lot of new types of missions that pressured the player to push forward by other mean without having any explicit timer and somehow they felt the game became more forgiving because of that... When in fact "timed" and "untimed" missions played pretty much the same.
The alien rulers give you gear that is really OP if you can defeat them. The armor you get from the snake boss is incredible for a sniper since it's really strong and has a grappling hook to get you some really great vantage points.