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Israel/Palestine - The ongoing Israeli genocide in Gaza - ICJ Orders Halt to Israeli Offensive on Rafah - See Staff Posts for Posting Guidelines

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yogurt

yogurt

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Oct 25, 2017
7,162
57 House Democrats signed a letter urging the Biden administration to put conditions on offensive military aid to Israel to prevent an assault on Rafah.

Jayapal, Dean Call on Administration to Help Prevent Assault on Rafah


WASHINGTON – U.S. Representatives Pramila Jayapal (WA-07), Madeleine Dean (PA-04) and 55 additional Members are calling on the Administration to use all tools possible to dissuade the Israeli government from moving forward with an offensive invasion into Rafah.

"We write with urgency to say: an offensive invasion into Rafah by Israel in the upcoming days is wholly unacceptable," wrote the Members. "Despite […] dire circumstances, the Israeli government is reportedly on the verge of a full-scale offensive on Rafah. An Israeli offensive in Rafah risks the start of yet another escalatory spiral, immediately putting the region back on the brink of a broader war that neither Israel nor the United States can afford."

Before the horrific October 7th terrorist attacks by Hamas on Israel, 280,000 Palestinians lived in Rafah. Now roughly 1.4 million people are sheltering in Rafah after being displaced. This overcrowding has caused further suffering through scarcity of food, water, and medicine.

"We urge you to invoke existing law and policy to immediately withhold certain offensive military aid to the Israeli government, including aid sourced from legislation already signed into law, in order to preempt a full-scale assault on Rafah," continued the Members. "If the Israeli government will not uphold international law and protect civilians, then the United States must act to protect innocent life. We urge you to continue your work toward achieving a lasting ceasefire that will bring hostages home and build a path toward safety and security for all."

The letter was also signed by Becca Balint (VT-At Large), Nanette Barragán (CA-44), Donald S. Beyer Jr. (VA-08), Earl Blumenauer (OR-03), Suzanne Bonamici (OR-01), Jamaal Bowman (NY-16), Cori Bush (MO-01), André Carson (IN-07), Greg Casar (TX-35), Joaquin Castro (TX-20), Judy Chu (CA-28), Gerald Connolly (VA-11), Joe Courtney (CT-02), Jasmine Crockett (TX-30), Mark DeSaulnier (CA-10), Debbie Dingell (MI-06), Lloyd Doggett (TX-37), Veronica Escobar (TX-16), Valerie Foushee (NC-04), Maxwell Frost (FL-10), Jesús G. "Chuy" García (IL-04), Sylvia Garcia (TX-29), Jimmy Gomez (CA-34), Al Green (TX-09), Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07), Jonathan Jackson (IL-01), Sara Jacobs (CA-51), Henry C. "Hank" Johnson (GA-04), Ro Khanna (CA-17), Dan Kildee (MI-08), Andy Kim (NJ-03), Barbara Lee (CA-12), Summer Lee (PA-12), Teresa Leger Fernandez (NM-03), Zoe Lofgren (CA-18), Stephen Lynch (MA-08), Betty McCollum (MN-04), James P. McGovern (MA-02), Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC-At Large), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY-14), Ilhan Omar (MN-05), Chellie Pingree (ME-01), Mark Pocan (WI-02), Ayanna Pressley (MA-07), Delia Ramirez (IL-03), Jan Schakowsky (IL-09), Melanie Stansbury (NM-01), Mark Takano (CA-39), Mike Thompson (CA-04), Rashida Tlaib (MI-12), Jill Tokuda (HI-02), Paul Tonko (NY-20), Nydia M. Velázquez (NY-07), and Bonnie Watson Coleman (NJ-12).
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Scuffed

Scuffed

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Oct 28, 2017
11,307
yogurt said:
If the details of the deal being reported are accurate, and there are reasonable guarantees of its implementation, then it would stop the genocide for a long time, if not permanently. It even (allegedly) includes a five year rebuilding plan. That would save tens of thousands of lives, minimum, and improve millions of others. If one is seriously concerned about the plight of civilians in Gaza than leaning against acceptance of that is wildly illogical.
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I can't take this serious knowing Bibi's history and even the history of his heir apparent Benny Gantz. This is fantasy. Blinken told Bibi there is no military solution to defeating Hamas. This is because as they collectively punish all Palestinians that just creates fertile ground for more terrorists. As long as there are Hamas or groups like them then the Israel gov't will have a sustainable enemy that will permit the constant oppression of Palestinians. This toxic cycle can only be stopped by ending the apartheid. You have to get to the root or it's just delaying the inevitable. It's also not about what I want don't put that on me lol. I want all the Israelis captive released and all the Palestinian captives released but I don't matter.

yogurt said:
Without a ceasefire there is no reason to think Israel will show any more restraint in Rafah than they have anywhere else (I hope I'm wrong, of course). It's super weird to me to wish cast that it could be better, in order to back reason why Hamas shouldn't take this deal, and then blame them not taking it back on Israel. I'm not following the chain of logic on that.
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I'm just looking at it strategically. Hamas doesn't care about Gaza they are terrorists with many in their ranks having lost all their family members and just want blood. They would want the IDF to go house to house so they can fight them. It's harder at this point in time for Israel to indiscriminately bomb Rafah if there are still Hostages there imo.

I just have different endgames than you I think. I want Palestinian emancipation not to delay things to get it out the news cycle just for it continue at a later date. I want America to tell Israel to gtfo and go the fuck home(edit: I mean go back to Israel I am not against Israel existing I am a 1967 border guy.) They got their payback they have created thousand of new extremists the offensive has destroyed Israel's standing in the world and it can only get worse. It's been a massive failure and the world is over it.
 
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yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,162
Scuffed said:
I can't take this serious knowing Bibi's history and even the history of his heir apparent Benny Gantz. This is fantasy. Blinken told Bibi there is no military solution to defeating Hamas. This is because as they collectively punish all Palestinians that just creates fertile ground for more terrorists. As long as there are Hamas or groups like them then the Israel gov't will have a sustainable enemy that will permit the constant oppression of Palestinians. This toxic cycle can only be stopped by ending the apartheid. You have to get to the root or it's just delaying the inevitable. It's also not about what I want don't put that on me lol. I want all the Israelis captive released and all the Palestinian captives released but I don't matter.
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Obviously Netanyahu is a monster and has serious credibility issues, hence why I predicated the previous statements on there being reasonable guarantees of its implementations. Background reporting was there being specific incentives and structures tied to implementation by multiple nations. It makes complete sense for Hamas to request clarifications on those guarantees and only move forward if they're credible.

The thing is, Hamas isn't a credible good faith actor either. To claim that a negotiated ceasefire involving multiple nations is less credible than (a) the idea that Hamas holding the hostages longer will result in either more restrained Israeli military conduct, or (b) that Hamas will use that leverage to get closer to a probable end to apartheid for the people of Palestine, instead of just enflaming things in service of any of their other insane goals, is very illogical. It's giving Hamas a tremendous amount of benefit of the doubt that they do not deserve.

Hamas doesn't care about the civilians. IDF doesn't care about the civilians. Their only hope, at this point, is for the fighting to stop. The civilians in Gaza are human beings living in hell, trying to survive. It does not make sense to gamble their lives on Step 1: Keep hostages and let Rafah get attacked, Step 2: ????, Step 3: Liberation.

So if Hamas chooses to walk away from a reasonable, credible ceasefire offer then that choice is their own.

Scuffed said:
I'm just looking at it strategically. Hamas doesn't care about Gaza they are terrorists with many in their ranks having lost all their family members and just want blood. They would want the IDF to go house to house so they can fight them. It's harder at this point in time for Israel to indiscriminately bomb Rafah if there are still Hostages there imo.
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As you said in your previous post, so far their conduct hasn't indicated that they care at all. Wishcasting that it might change in order to back reason how Rafah getting destroyed is better for Palestinian liberation is wild, man. It does not make sense.

Scuffed said:
I just have different endgames than you I think. I want an end to Palestinian emancipation not to delay things to get it out the news cycle just for it continue at a later date. I want America to tell Israel to gtfo and go the fuck home. They got their payback they have created thousand of new extremists the offensive has destroyed Israel's standing in the world and it can only get worse. It's been a massive failure and the world is over it.
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I want an end to apartheid, an end to the senseless blockade, and an independent, sovereign Palestinian state.

Scuffed said:

View: https://twitter.com/AP/status/1786249353079726365
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All the more reason why a deal that included 5 years of rebuilding would be really impactful.
 
yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,162

CIA director in Cairo as talks for Israel-Hamas deal reach critical point


CIA director Bill Burns arrived in Cairo on Friday to join Egyptian mediators in their efforts to reach a hostage and ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas, three sources with knowledge of the issue told Axios.

Why it matters: Burns' trip reflects the pressure the Biden administration is under to get a deal as soon as possible and signals that it sees the current moment as a critical point in the negotiations.
  • The president's senior advisers say the deal on the table right now is the only conceivable path to a ceasefire in Gaza and to possibly ending a war that has drawn sharp criticism of Biden among some of his key supporters ahead of the presidential election.
  • President Biden has been personally involved in intense efforts to reach a hostage and ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas, which he sees as a crucial element of a much wider strategy at home and abroad, U.S. officials say.
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  • The head of Hamas' political bureau, Ismail Haniyeh, spoke on Thursday with the head of Egyptian intelligence, Abbas Kamel, and told him the group is studying the proposal "with positive spirit."
  • Senior Israeli officials say they are waiting to see the official response from Hamas, but noted there are early indications that the group will agree to carry out the first phase of the deal — the humanitarian release of hostages — without an official commitment from Israel to end the war.
  • At the same time, they added, Hamas is expected to set stricter requirements that could lower the number of hostages it will agree to release on humanitarian grounds and increase the number of Palestinian prisoners to be released in return.
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  • The most recent proposal from Israel includes a willingness to discuss the "restoration of sustainable calm" in Gaza after an initial release of hostages on humanitarian grounds. It's the first indication from Israel since Oct. 7 that it might agree to end the war.
  • The proposal includes the release of roughly 33 hostages on humanitarian grounds — women, female soldiers, men over the age of 50 and male hostages in poor medical condition — in return for roughly 40 days of ceasefire and the release of about 900 Palestinian prisoners.
  • In the proposal, Israel agrees to the full return of displaced Palestinians to their homes in northern Gaza and the withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from the corridor that divides the enclave and prevents freedom of movement.
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A senior Israeli official said Hamas' response is expected to be "yes, but" — with the "but" being accompanied by stricter conditions.
  • One possibility is Hamas sticks to its position that only about 20 hostages fit the humanitarian criteria in order to be released in the first phase of the deal — and not 33 people, as Israel says.
  • "They are ready to reach a deal that will be on terms that are close to their demands with very little room for flexibility," the Israeli official said.
  • He stressed there are indications Hamas is ready to take the risk and enter into the implementation of the humanitarian phase of the deal even without an Israeli commitment in advance to end the war, with the assessment that continued implementation of the agreement would lead to that result.
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Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

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Oct 28, 2017
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World Food Programme Director Cindy McCain: Northern Gaza is in a 'full-blown famine'


www.nbcnews.com

World Food Programme Director Cindy McCain: Northern Gaza is in a 'full-blown famine'

Cindy McCain, the director of World Food Programme, said that the crisis in Northern Gaza is a “horror."
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
Cindy McCain, the executive director of the World Food Programme, said she believes there is a "full-blown famine" in Northern Gaza.

"Whenever you have conflicts like this, and emotions rage high, and things happen in a war, famine happens," McCain said during an interview with Kristen Welker set to air Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press."

"What I can explain to you is — is that there is famine — full-blown famine — in the north, and it's moving its way south," she said.

Since mid-March, the United Nations has said famine is "imminent" in Gaza, but has not yet officially stated that it believes famine has struck the state.

In April, Samantha Power, the director of the U.S. Agency for International Development became the first U.S. official to say that it was credible to assess that famine is occurring in portions of Gaza. No other U.S. official has made that assessment.

McCain said that while there has not yet been an official declaration of famine, based on what her organization has seen and experienced on the ground, she believes there is a "full-blown" issue in Gaza.


"It's horror. It's – You know, it's so hard to look at and it's so hard to hear, also," McCain said in her interview.


She went on to say that she is hopeful for a ceasefire in Gaza so that people can begin to be fed "in a much faster fashion." McCain added that the people in Gaza need "water, sanitation, medicine – it's all part of the famine — the famine issue."


Efforts to provide food aid to Gaza have been met both by political resistance and threats of violence on the ground.
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Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,307
yogurt said:
Obviously Netanyahu is a monster and has serious credibility issues, hence why I predicated the previous statements on there being reasonable guarantees of its implementations. Background reporting was there being specific incentives and structures tied to implementation by multiple nations. It makes complete sense for Hamas to request clarifications on those guarantees and only move forward if they're credible.

The thing is, Hamas isn't a credible good faith actor either. To claim that a negotiated ceasefire involving multiple nations is less credible than (a) the idea that Hamas holding the hostages longer will result in either more restrained Israeli military conduct, or (b) that Hamas will use that leverage to get closer to a probable end to apartheid for the people of Palestine, instead of just enflaming things in service of any of their other insane goals, is very illogical. It's giving Hamas a tremendous amount of benefit of the doubt that they do not deserve.

Hamas doesn't care about the civilians. IDF doesn't care about the civilians. Their only hope, at this point, is for the fighting to stop. The civilians in Gaza are human beings living in hell, trying to survive. It does not make sense to gamble their lives on Step 1: Keep hostages and let Rafah get attacked, Step 2: ????, Step 3: Liberation.

So if Hamas chooses to walk away from a reasonable, credible ceasefire offer then that choice is their own.


As you said in your previous post, so far their conduct hasn't indicated that they care at all. Wishcasting that it might change in order to back reason how Rafah getting destroyed is better for Palestinian liberation is wild, man. It does not make sense.


I want an end to apartheid, an end to the senseless blockade, and an independent, sovereign Palestinian state.


All the more reason why a deal that included 5 years of rebuilding would be really impactful.
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Hey I wish I had your optimism. I see estimates of 80 years to rebuild so 5 years kind of makes me laugh. I've been following Palestinian oppression for a very long time with never an opportunity to speak about it for fear of being called anti-semitic. There have been many moments I have thought things would improve but I didn't know Bibi was helping fund Hamas to ruin the two state solution which I just learned this past year LOL!. With strategy like that of helping bolster enemies for strategic advantage it's impossible to have progress. There is a very deep cancer in the Israeli gov't and until that is reckoned with then nothing changes. We want the same things but I am more impatient and MUCH more cynical than you are about potential outcomes of "negotiations." I'm done with this back and forth though. You can respond of course but don't take a lack of me debating anymore as ignoring you:)
 
effingvic

effingvic

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Oct 25, 2017
14,672

Turkey to join South Africa's genocide case against Israel at World Court, minister says


ISTANBUL, May 1 (Reuters) - Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan said on Wednesday that Turkey would join in South Africa's genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

"Upon completion of the legal text of our work, we will submit the declaration of official intervention before the ICJ with the objective of implementing this political decision," Fidan said in a joint press conference with Indonesia's Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi in Ankara.

"Turkey will continue to support the Palestinian people in all circumstances," he said.
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Damn Turkey is going hard out of nowhere.
 
yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,162
Scuffed said:
Hey I wish I had your optimism. I see estimates of 80 years to rebuild so 5 years kind of makes me laugh. I've been following Palestinian oppression for a very long time with never an opportunity to speak about it for fear of being called anti-semitic. There have been many moments I have thought things would improve but I didn't know Bibi was helping fund Hamas to ruin the two state solution which I just learned this past year LOL!. With strategy like that of helping bolster enemies for strategic advantage it's impossible to have progress. There is a very deep cancer in the Israeli gov't and until that is reckoned with then nothing changes. We want the same things but I am more impatient and MUCH more cynical than you are about potential outcomes of "negotiations." I'm done with this back and forth though. You can respond of course but don't take a lack of me debating anymore as ignoring you:)
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I'm definitely under no impression that rebuilding would only take 5 years; the point is that 5 years of rebuilding is (obviously) much more than zero, and points to a long term ceasefire.

I think your point about Bibi funding Hamas is interesting because it points to just how much both sides were (are?) fine with the status quo. Just another reason I do not pin any hopes of Palestinian liberation on Hamas I guess… and do not at all trust that they will use whatever leverage hostages provide to get there. They've earned zero benefit of the doubt from me, same as Bibi and the IDF.

And yeah, I hear you on the deep rot in the Israeli government. "We will totally support you no matter what you do" is a fundamental approval error and it's not surprising that it has led us to extremists in charge not even bothering with the appearance of respecting international law. I don't know exactly how you totally fix that because it reflects internal Israeli cultural shifts too, but obviously the west not sending weapons and support with zero preconditions is a pretty fucking important start.

Anyways, I don't know if I'm optimistic. I'll believe there's a ceasefire when it starts. I just think the reported terms of this deal are actually decent, and I don't see any more realistic path forward.

No more responses necessary - have a great weekend.

Shoot said:
In Dresden clearing the rubble alone took more than 5 years. Rebuilding took decades. 5 years is a joke of an offer.
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See above. I know rebuilding would take decades. But 5 years of rebuilding and calm is obviously so much more than zero.
 
Hasseigaku

Hasseigaku

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Oct 30, 2017
3,624
These fucks have lost the plot. Feels like we're two weeks away from having everyone in the country having to sign a loyalty pledge to Israel.
 
yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,162

Biden faces new Democratic pressure to rein in Israel

A group of nearly 90 House Democrats is urging President Biden to consider halting sales of offensive weaponry to Israel over concerns about continued restrictions on the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza.
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The group of 88 Democrats wrote in a letter to Biden that they "strongly support Israel's right to self-defense" but argued there is "sufficient evidence" that Israel is in violation of the federal law upon which the memo is based.
Between the lines: The letter was signed by notable and high-ranking House Democrats including center-left New Democrat Coalition Chair Annie Kuster (D-N.H.) and House Intelligence Committee Ranking Member Jim Himes (D-Conn.).
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The bottom line: In a nod to the growing pro-Palestinian protest movement in the U.S. and abroad, the lawmakers concluded, "Allowing famine to take hold in Gaza is already severely damaging the Israeli government's international standing and harming prospects for peace."
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This is in addition to the letter sent a few days ago by a group of 57 House members. It seems like the protests have made more and more House members nervous about continuing unconditional aid to Israel. Keep it up.
 
effingvic

effingvic

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Oct 25, 2017
14,672
From Bellingcat:

"We've Become Addicted to Explosions" The IDF Unit Responsible for Demolishing Homes Across Gaza


It's estimated that more than 50% of Gaza's buildings have been destroyed or damaged and approximately 1.7 million people have been displaced since the offensive began. Bellingcat worked with partners Scripps News to investigate the alleged domicide in Gaza and the ongoing conflicts over land in the West Bank, you can watch the full documentary here.
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Khuza'a and Khirbat Ikhza'a are very close to the border with Israel. These demolitions appear to be part of an effort to create a "buffer zone" between Gaza and Israel. However, the Captain added further details in a Facebook post, describing this operation as one to take and "destroy the village of the murderers".
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The Captain himself said they destroyed "thousands" of buildings, noting in a post on January 13, 2024 that his Commanding Officer told him there is "no precedent" for this in the IDF and that they had stopped counting the buildings they had destroyed.
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Religious elements appear to creep in. In one post regarding the demolition in Khan Younis the Captain talks of using 400 mines to demolish a residential area "in honour of the Shabbat".
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Further, he noted that the "buffer zone" being cleared by the IDF along the border with Gaza doesn't fit the definition of such zones within the Geneva Conventions and is effectively a "land-grab" taking approximately 16% of Gaza's land.

Mairav Zonszein, a Senior Analyst on Israel-Palestine at the International Crisis Group which monitors conflict, said the current conflict wasn't the only example of demolitions of Palestinian homes by the IDF but it was "on a scope that we've never seen."

She said there were a few reasons the demolitions were happening, ranging from revenge to an extremely punitive interpretation of 'deradicalisation'.

"They have a policy of deterrence which means that if somebody fires at us, we'll come back at them ten times harder", Zonszein told Bellingcat.
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"Essentially the aim of the offensive is to take apart Hamas as an entity, but they don't distinguish. Part of that is destroying infrastructure and changing the urban fabric through demolitions".

"They are trying to take apart a society."
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www.bellingcat.com

“We’ve Become Addicted to Explosions” The IDF Unit Responsible for Demolishing Homes Across Gaza - bellingcat

Bellingcat investigates the demolitions carried out by the IDF in Gaza.
www.bellingcat.com www.bellingcat.com

Bellingcat followed the trail of destruction by an IDF unit that likes to post their crimes on social media.

Its an interactive article with lots of videos and animations and hard to quote since the impact of the text is lost without the accompanying footage.

Just straight up indiscriminate destruction, like a bunch of children playing with some new toys. This is why americans dont have healthcare.
 
behOemoth

behOemoth

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Oct 27, 2017
5,876
effingvic said:

Turkey to join South Africa's genocide case against Israel at World Court, minister says





Damn Turkey is going hard out of nowhere.
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There is some history behind this, but it is a mixture of Erdogan's own hegemonic dreams in the region and probably also his anti-Israel views. Anyway, in the last few months Turkey and Israel still had strong economic ties with each other. The public rightly saw great hypocrisy here. Erdogan's AKP has lost many votes to Islamist parties and Israel's Foreign Ministry has waged an outright hate campaign against Turkey. Now that Erdogan has finally lost important regional elections, he is cutting economic ties and is now also aligning himself with South Africa. The latter is also coinciding probably with Turkey's great pivot of gaining access to African markets.

Another news:
Germany is using Schengen regularities to ban the current Rector of the Uni Glasgow to enter France.

View: https://x.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1786673587673239605
 
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hobblygobbly

hobblygobbly

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Oct 25, 2017
7,722
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
behOemoth said:
Another news:
Germany is using Schengen regularities to ban the current Rector of the Uni Glasgow to enter France.

View: https://x.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1786673587673239605
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That makes no sense because that's not how it works.

Firstly, you can only be in the Schengen Information System, if you are wanted for arrest, obligatory legal proceedings presence, investigation, or if you are a missing person (or danger to yourself), evidence of terrorism (transferred data from Europol) or you have been deported and/or asylum rejected (in case of Richard Spencer who was reportedly "banned from Europe" - that was enforced because he was actually deported from Hungary and further Schengen countries collectively agree to uphold no re-entry).

Secondly, France is enforcing its own policies from the Schengen Information System. If you have for example no re-entry ban in one or more Schengen countries, it is against the law to travel to those in particular you have been banned , but you can still legally travel to other Schengen countries that haven't "banned" you, but "Ban" here usually is related to deportation, other SIS alerts don't ban you specifically, they are alerts regarding proceedings that must be achieved/clarified

No country can issue you a simple "Ban" from a SIS context outside of deportation (i.e no re-entry).

However, under special cases, in EU law there is an act that allows countries to deny entry to their member state for "public order or security" but this is not something that happens in days, it's months to years to issue such a ban. And its a long proceeding, and typically only involves prominent public figures/politicians. Right now Germany is actually thinking of using this EU act against Martin Sellner from Austria who leads the Identarian Movement, but I seriously doubt this person has been issued that, it's not so simple

So France has looked at the SIS and probably saw this person have some alert on them originating from Germany or more countries - and not "banned" in general sense - it comes from something specific, but this is an alert concerning them, and you are informed what that is, like an arrest or w/e, and the national authority (i.e France here) decide on their own policy if they should be allowed in France or not, even if France didn't issue the alert, based on France's known information on them or other policies (France maybe just denies all entry for SIS alerts, i dunno). If it's not an interpol/europol/international arrest warrant then France would not need to do anything more. Can let in, or deny (if its a simple alert in the Schengen Information System, and not an actual ban under EU law)

No single country can "Deny you entry into Europe", that's up to each Schengen member. You are simply noted in the SIS for each respective country that has actually denied you (i.e no re-entry because of deportation) or some alert. What other countries that haven't banned or didn't issue the alert for you do with that info is up to them

So no Germany has not banned them to enter France. France denied them entry. SIS is basically a cross-border alert consultancy. Not required enforcement, unless the alert is a europol/interpol arrest warrant etc.

And why France denied them who knows but it's likely because France has been enforcing internal borders since 2016 and high terror alert grants certain policies which likely means SIS alerts = automatic denial even if the SIS alert doesn't originate from France

And if an alert about you has been entered into the SIS, you are informed about this, so you should typically be aware/informed you are in the SIS. You can also contact the national authority (i.e France) to correct this alert if you think it's false, as you are allowed to see that info.

So they are either completely making things up or severely misunderstood whatever the French authority told them, because "Germany put a 1 year ban on my entry into Europe" makes zero sense, you cannot even do that, nor put a time limit on that.

A SIS alert is because you have an arrest warrant, required for legal proceedings, investigation, missing person, etc, or deported. Not a "time out" - an alert is indefinite until the particular proceeding for their entry denial is achieved (i.e. needed to assist police investigation or w/e), and once that is done it is deleted. So no, "1 year ban into europe" makes zero sense, it doesn't work like that, no country can issue that. That's doesn't exist. That's a fabrication or a total misunderstanding. And they would know what the alert pertains to, since the border authority in France are supposed to tell him, and again there is no such thing as "denied entry into Europe" that can be issued by a Schengen member state, no member state can decide "this UK national cannot enter Europe for 1 year", sorry but what a bunch of total BS

^ All applies to third-nationals with departure originating from a third-country (e.g. UK to France), i.e. not traveling within Schengen zone (because there are no border controls, so no SIS alert possible)
 
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Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

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Oct 28, 2017
1,480

Gaza Cease-Fire Talks Come Down to the Wire in Cairo
Negotiators were converging on Cairo in a high-stakes effort to clinch a cease-fire deal in Gaza and head off an Israeli offensive into Hamas's final stronghold of Rafah.

Hamas and Qatari delegations arrived in Egypt on Saturday, joining Central Intelligence Agency Director William Burns, who arrived a day earlier, Arab mediators said. Hamas's military leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, weighed in on the proposed deal via Hamas representatives for the first time Friday, saying it was the closest one yet to the group's demands but raising a number of caveats, the Arab mediators said.

Hamas is expected to present a counterproposal soon, the mediators said. The deal continues to be hung up on Hamas's demand for a path to a permanent end to the fighting, while Israel insists on retaining the right to continue its campaign to destroy the group militarily.

Senior Hamas leader Ghazi Hamad said the group is still considering the proposal and weighing its response. Hamad declined to comment on Sinwar's response to the proposed deal.

Hamas is looking for international guarantees that Israel will enter into negotiations over a path toward a sustainable period of calm, Arab mediators said.

Israel has told mediators it will move ahead with a planned operation in Rafah if a deal isn't reached soon, Egyptian officials said. Blinken said Friday that the U.S. wouldn't support a full-scale military operation in Rafah and blamed Hamas for holding up a deal.

Netanyahu also faces political pressures that narrow the path to a deal. The prime minister is facing low domestic approval ratings and relies upon hard-line coalition members who have threatened to pull his government apart if he stops the war before fully uprooting Hamas. Netanyahu has said Israel will send ground forces into Rafah regardless of whether a deal is signed, framing the operation as critical to destroying Hamas's military capabilities.

The latest proposal is for a staged reduction of tensions accompanied by swaps of hostages held in Gaza with Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. The initial phase calls for up to 40 days of calm during which Hamas would release up to 33 Israeli hostages, and the parties have the possibility of negotiating a long-term cease-fire. The following phase would include at least a six-week cease-fire, during which Israel and Hamas would negotiate for the release of more hostages and an extended pause in fighting that could last up to a year.

Israel and Hamas have mostly agreed upon details of the hostage and prisoner swap envisioned under the proposal, Egyptian officials said.
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behOemoth

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,876
hobblygobbly said:
So they are either completely making things up or severely misunderstood whatever the French authority told them, because "Germany put a 1 year ban on my entry into Europe" makes zero sense, you cannot even do that, nor put a time limit on that.
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There are always de facto and de jure regulations. One can wish that it was a misunderstanding, as happens much more frequently with unwanted guests, or that the border control authorities initially (for now) had moronic arguments to block unwanted guests.
 
hobblygobbly

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,722
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
behOemoth said:
There are always de facto and de jure regulations. One can wish that it was a misunderstanding, as happens much more frequently with unwanted guests, or that the border control authorities initially (for now) had moronic arguments to block unwanted guests.
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I mean for sure I think he got denied, and prob French authority told him some BS or he misunderstood something, or stretching truth himself, I don't know, but it's for sure not possible for any Schengen country to ban someone from entering rest of Europe/another European country/Schengen area arbitrarily "for 1 year" outside of the EU law regarding risk to public peace/order law.

For example David Icke is banned from Netherlands, but its under EU law of posing risk to public order/security, which means other Schengen countries would have to stop him, as he could travel within Schengen (like France) to Netherlands.

So yes its possible that Germany issued that against Ghassan, it would be same type of thing like I wrote in my original post, but this is not something that happens over short time, its months, and they'd have already known about this long before they even traveled to France - they'd be legally informed by German authorities long ago if they were issued such - not surprised by a SIS alert at French border controls, and in fact it would be in the news in some form.

I know he was denied entry once into Germany a month or two ago, but that was not a future ban, and also has nothing to do with Schengen/Europe wide any way

It's not simple/easy to apply that, you need serious evidence, and if the person in question is actually EU citizen, they get an in-person hearing, its a complete legal proceeding. Rasmus Paludan was also issued such, and possibly Martin Sellner in the future too. It's not something that is applied frequently or arbitrarily and takes time, and I really doubt Ghassan would have been issued this, as if he was, that would've been known a long time ago already, and news

Its no minor thing. So unless that hasn't been issued, what they wrote in their tweet makes no sense that "Germans put a 1 year ban on my entry to Europe.". France is acting on their own here preventing him to go to Paris the same way he was prevented from going to Berlin

But in any case, not much more to add to that, so I'll leave it at that as not much info to go on
 
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rzks21

rzks21

Member
Aug 17, 2023
2,217
behOemoth said:
There is some history behind this, but it is a mixture of Erdogan's own hegemonic dreams in the region and probably also his anti-Israel views. Anyway, in the last few months Turkey and Israel still had strong economic ties with each other. The public rightly saw great hypocrisy here. Erdogan's AKP has lost many votes to Islamist parties and Israel's Foreign Ministry has waged an outright hate campaign against Turkey. Now that Erdogan has finally lost important regional elections, he is cutting economic ties and is now also aligning himself with South Africa. The latter is also coinciding probably with Turkey's great pivot of gaining access to African markets.

Another news:
Germany is using Schengen regularities to ban the current Rector of the Uni Glasgow to enter France.

View: https://x.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1786673587673239605
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Germany as always making things worse for Palestinians. Not content with supplying a huge chunk of the weapons used against civilians, they do their best to enforce widespread censorship at home and abroad. Pathetic.
 
Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,480
Arilian

Arilian

Member
Oct 29, 2020
2,385
hobblygobbly said:
So they are either completely making things up or severely misunderstood whatever the French authority told them, because "Germany put a 1 year ban on my entry into Europe" makes zero sense, you cannot even do that, nor put a time limit on that.
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Le Monde has an article on the subject, but it's rather short (available in English but behind a paywall): Ghassan Abu Sitta confirmed what he tweeted and the French Senator who invited him to spoke at the French Senate (a member of the Greens) said she tried to get Gérald Darmanin's cabinet to fix the situation but it failed. She was also speaking about a German decision (likely because it was what she was told by Abu-Sittah)and she's planning to take the situation to a French court. The journalist also spoke at someone at the Élysée who didn't know about the ban but said "when there is a Schengen rejection, the border police can't do much."

Having said that, considering the current climate around Palestine in France, like you said, it would not be surprising for the French authorities to have sent him back on the flimsiest reasoning.
 
behOemoth

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,876
hobblygobbly said:
I mean for sure I think he got denied, and prob French authority told him some BS or he misunderstood something, or stretching truth himself, I don't know, but it's for sure not possible for any Schengen country to ban someone from entering rest of Europe/another European country/Schengen area arbitrarily "for 1 year" outside of the EU law regarding risk to public peace/order law.

For example David Icke is banned from Netherlands, but its under EU law of posing risk to public order/security, which means other Schengen countries would have to stop him, as he could travel within Schengen (like France) to Netherlands.

So yes its possible that Germany issued that against Ghassan, it would be same type of thing like I wrote in my original post, but this is not something that happens over short time, its months, and they'd have already known about this long before they even traveled to France - they'd be legally informed by German authorities long ago if they were issued such - not surprised by a SIS alert at French border controls, and in fact it would be in the news in some form.

I know he was denied entry once into Germany a month or two ago, but that was not a future ban, and also has nothing to do with Schengen/Europe wide any way

It's not simple/easy to apply that, you need serious evidence, and if the person in question is actually EU citizen, they get an in-person hearing, its a complete legal proceeding. Rasmus Paludan was also issued such, and possibly Martin Sellner in the future too. It's not something that is applied frequently or arbitrarily and takes time, and I really doubt Ghassan would have been issued this, as if he was, that would've been known a long time ago already, and news

Its no minor thing. So unless that hasn't been issued, what they wrote in their tweet makes no sense that "Germans put a 1 year ban on my entry to Europe.". France is acting on their own here preventing him to go to Paris the same way he was prevented from going to Berlin

But in any case, not much more to add to that, so I'll leave it at that as not much info to go on
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I mean, thanks for the clarification, but I just wanted to emphasize again that the authorities can and will use bullshit arguments and deal with the consequences later, especially at the borders.
 
hobblygobbly

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,722
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
Arilian said:
Le Monde has an article on the subject, but it's rather short (available in English but behind a paywall): Ghassan Abu Sitta confirmed what he tweeted and the French Senator who invited him to spoke at the French Senate (a member of the Greens) said she tried to get Gérald Darmanin's cabinet to fix the situation but it failed. She was also speaking about a German decision (likely because it was what she was told by Abu-Sittah)and she's planning to take the situation to a French court. The journalist also spoke at someone at the Élysée who didn't know about the ban but said "when there is a Schengen rejection, the border police can't do much."

Having said that, considering the current climate around Palestine in France, like you said, it would not be surprising for the French authorities to have sent him back on the flimsiest reasoning.
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Thanks for the extra info, I was also trying to search but wasn't finding much

behOemoth said:
I mean, thanks for the clarification, but I just wanted to emphasize again that the authorities can and will use bullshit arguments and deal with the consequences later, especially at the borders.
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All good, yeah I know what you mean, didn't mean to downplay your post itself or anything. I just found the situation odd that he was describing, but again so much stuff when it comes to border controls are confusing
 
yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,162
spineduke said:
Did I misunderstand? Is it that one side accepted and the other didn't?
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Netanyahu is probably trying to have his cake and eat it too since his coalition of far-right crazies do not want the war to end under any circumstances…but the public (and Israel's allies) think a hostage return is more important. The war could technically not "end" in a Korean War sense, or they could scale things back, or agree to a long pause that gets continually extended, or any number of other possibilities, to try to split that difference.

Only time will tell. I hope anyone and everyone is pressuring the fuck out of Israel to accept this, implement it, and not fuck it up.
 
Hana-Bi

Hana-Bi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
Germany
Well, it's always the other Western nations that said that the war will end when the hostages are freed. Just like they are still saying that a two state solution is possible and ignoring what Netanyahu is saying like decades ago.

There won't be an end to the war, as he wants a total victory and there won't be a two state solution with the Likud.

The West is so pathetic. They really think they can influence the Israel politic when time after time they happily take our money and weapons and play their anti-semitic card whenever we dare to criticize them.
 
deathkiller

deathkiller

Member
Apr 11, 2018
943
The whole "everything ends if Hamas releases the hostages" was always just a excuse of pro-israely posters, the only proposal I remember for ending the war from Israel included all Hamas leadership leaving Gaza forever.
 
effingvic

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,672
spineduke said:
Did I misunderstand? Is it that one side accepted and the other didn't?
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Haaretz saying US guaranteed Israeli withdrawal and end to war with hostage deal but Israeli side saying no end to war under any circumstances and will enter Rafah regardless.

So as usual, its the Israelis that dont want peace or an end to war.
 
Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,307

View: https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1786498125940527387

"Dies" Don't worry though Israel is investigating themselves again so we are certain to learn that the Dr. fell and hit his head. Let's be real we will never hear about any outcome of any investigation as usual. Or that he was Hamas...

There is a video interview with him in the comments I'd post it but it's probably not allowed:( But he was vocal and known which probably why he was kidnapped and imprisoned.

RIP to Dr Adnan Al-Bursh and all the other brave medical staff that have been butchered and/or kidnapped by Israel.
 
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Buckle

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,502
m_shortpants

m_shortpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,593
Scuffed said:

View: https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1786498125940527387

"Dies" Don't worry though Israel is investigating themselves again so we are certain to learn that the Dr. fell and hit his head. Let's be real we will never hear about any outcome of any investigation as usual. Or that he was Hamas...

There is a video interview with him in the comments I'd post it but it's probably not allowed:( But he was vocal and known which probably why he was kidnapped and imprisoned.

RIP to Dr Adnan Al-Bursh and all the other brave medical staff that have been butchered and/or kidnapped by Israel.
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So weird, people just dying in prison after 4 months. Nothing strange here, move along.

Absolutely sickening.
 
behOemoth

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,876
Buckle said:
Is there anything China can do to put pressure on Israel? Have no idea what sort of connections they might have to each other but still.

< grasping at straws
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Originally I thought Russia might try this because Israel had pretty big diplomatic ties with Russia. Israel was also completely neutral when Russia invaded Ukraine partly because Israel is active in Syria and benefits from Russia's presence there. But as Israel demonstrates how gigantic the West's hypocrisy is and Iran is likely to become the most important exporter of arms to Russia, as an OPEC member, relations have changed again.
 
effingvic

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,672
behOemoth said:
There is some history behind this, but it is a mixture of Erdogan's own hegemonic dreams in the region and probably also his anti-Israel views. Anyway, in the last few months Turkey and Israel still had strong economic ties with each other. The public rightly saw great hypocrisy here. Erdogan's AKP has lost many votes to Islamist parties and Israel's Foreign Ministry has waged an outright hate campaign against Turkey. Now that Erdogan has finally lost important regional elections, he is cutting economic ties and is now also aligning himself with South Africa. The latter is also coinciding probably with Turkey's great pivot of gaining access to African markets.
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Thanks for this context. Interesting point about pivoting to African markets.

Glad there were some repercussions for hypocrisy. I remember he threw a huge ass rally nearly 1M strong shit talking Israel last year, only for them to resume business as usual.

Scuffed said:

View: https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1786498125940527387

"Dies" Don't worry though Israel is investigating themselves again so we are certain to learn that the Dr. fell and hit his head. Let's be real we will never hear about any outcome of any investigation as usual. Or that he was Hamas...

There is a video interview with him in the comments I'd post it but it's probably not allowed:( But he was vocal and known which probably why he was kidnapped and imprisoned.

RIP to Dr Adnan Al-Bursh and all the other brave medical staff that have been butchered and/or kidnapped by Israel.
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Israelis are killed but Palestinians simply die or their lives just somehow end. RIP to the doctor.

Depressed Panda said:

View: https://x.com/dylanotes/status/1786821265082167332
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Straight from the horses mouth.

SolVanderlyn said:
Kind of already happening. "Everything relies on Hamas" is the narrative being spun right now.
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Typical. Netanyahu is literally holding up the hostage release, hopefully some journalists learn to do their job. Maybe they should send in university journalists instead to show them how its done.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,553
Earth, 21st Century
Well, according to pro-Israel people, AJ is a bunch of Hamas supporting propaganda. I know someone who won't even read any articles from them. Or from The Guardian. Or trust anything the UN says, because the UN "backs Hamas." Or anything South Africa says, because they're run by antisemites. Or trust the numbers from Gaza, because "the numbers are Hamas."

Basically, anyone who says anything negative about Israel is a Hamas supporter, a liar, or both. Not surprised AJ was shut down.

Not surprised, but still disappointed.
 
bleck98534

bleck98534

Member
Feb 18, 2023
135
Lighinthedarkness said:

View: https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1787085530770886794
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I don't think they should have closed the Al Jazerra operations in Israel as they seem to do good reporting. But I am genuinely curious about what people here think of AJ outside of this conflict. I've liked some of their reporting on regional and Western issues but I do remember some criticism of bias. For instance, I recall finding their coverage of some of the controversies around the Qatari World Cup to be disappointing. But technically there's no real difference between Al Jazeera as a state-run broadcaster and the BBC, ABC, or CBC, right? I guess I'm just wondering if more informed people here consider them trustworthy on everything, or if they do indeed have blindspots.
 
Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,480

Cairo talks continue but hopes for Gaza ceasefire appear slim

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www.reuters.com
Prospects for a Gaza ceasefire appeared slim on Sunday as Hamas reiterated its demand for an end to the war in exchange for the freeing of hostages, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu flatly ruled that out.

The two sides blamed each other for the impasse.

In their second day of truce talks in Cairo with Egyptian and Qatari mediators in Cairo, Hamas negotiators maintained their stance that any truce agreement must end the war, Palestinian officials said.

Israeli officials have not traveled to Cairo to take part in indirect diplomacy, but on Sunday Netanyahu reiterated Israel's aim since the start of the war nearly seven months ago: to disarm and dismantle the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas for good or else endanger Israel's future security.

The prime minister said Israel was willing to pause fighting in Gaza in order to secure the release of hostages still being held by Hamas, believed to number more than 130.

In a statement released shortly after Netanyahu's, Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh said the group is still keen on reaching a comprehensive ceasefire that ends the Israeli "aggression", guarantees Israel's withdrawal from Gaza, and achieves "a serious" deal to free Israelis being held hostage in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners.

Earlier on Sunday, a Palestinian official told Reuters the Cairo negotiations are "facing challenges because the occupation (Israel) refuses to commit to a comprehensive ceasefire" but added that the Hamas delegation was still in Cairo in the hope mediators could press Israel to change its position.

Egyptian sources said CIA Director William Burns, who has also been involved in previous truce talks, arrived in Cairo on Friday. Washington - which, like other Western powers and Israel, brands Hamas a terrorist group - has urged it to enter a deal.
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