IT Chapter Two |OT| Hello |SPOILERS|

MoosetheMark

Member
May 3, 2019
90
So I haven't read IT but I was curious about the Deadlights and discovered that they and Derry appear in The Dark Tower series?
Like almost every single King book in some way connects to The Dark Tower series.

The deadlights are used by the crimson king, who is the main enemy in the series.

IT if I remember correctly is a monster from the todash darkness. In"The Mist" they unlock a gate to the todash space which is where all the monsters come from.

The Dark Tower series goes more into depth about all this stuff. I highly recommend reading them. The gunslinger book itself is not a good representation of what the series is like.
The Dark Tower series also introduced us to Dandelo, another psychic vampire that King has suggested is of the same species as Pennywise, if not its offspring: https://darktower.fandom.com/wiki/Dandelo
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
Yeah it was pretty blatant, it was fine in concept. It felt kind of like a throwback to when Richie would see the Crawling Eye and Michael Landon's Teenage Werewolf and other famous monsters of filmland in the book. King basically wrote It as an excuse to get all of his favorite monsters in one novel, so I'm cool with the homage. I just wish it spoke more...
Yeah but what's really sad is how much more effective the practical effects are from a 1982 movie than the CGI in this 2019 film.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,200
Which is funny because I loved The Gunslinger and the second book lost me.
The books are at their best when it's done bringing all the characters together finally on their journey. But the wizard and the glass that goes back into Roland's past is probably the best book in the series. Even if the second book was losing you would I would suggest pushing through.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,200
The Thing has aged like fine wine.

It's still fascinating and sad how the film was panned and hated upon release. Its failure at the time severely hurt Carpenter personally and career wise. I can't imagine how his career would have gone if it had been recognized for its greatness upon release.

But true genius and brilliance rarely get recognized on first blush. And that film is pure horror genius.


Fuck it. Gonna watch it again.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,780
Bandung Indonesia
As far as Cosmic Horror goes, IT seems pretty lame, to be honest, haha. But maybe it's just because I am really not that familiar with King's cosmic universe, so-to-speak.

I would imagine a being that "has existed since the beginning of time" and "planet destroyer" or "eater of worlds" and all that to go down much harder instead of getting ridiculed by a a bunch of normal people using their Spongebob imagination power.
 
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Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
11,393
i don't get whats all this complaining about the Gay couple scene, it was a strong intro, the town is shit and Pennywise is this depraved monster that feeds on fear, here comes this couple to bigot town, the monster clown appears to eat it was supposed to be scary, if anything the movies lacked more scenes of Derry being this fucked up town with an ancient abomination living below feeding on the people's fear and bigotry, i thought it was nice the movie wasn't afraid to portray homophobia just as it is,some evil shit rare in hollywood movies and yes the bar is that low. I was surprised they showed a kiss

It was more fleshed out in the book though
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
The Thing has aged like fine wine.

It's still fascinating and sad how the film was panned and hated upon release. Its failure at the time severely hurt Carpenter personally and career wise. I can't imagine how his career would have gone if it had been recognized for its greatness upon release.

But true genius and brilliance rarely get recognized on first blush. And that film is pure horror genius.


Fuck it. Gonna watch it again.
It's undeniable, IMO. A cornerstone of horror and sci-fi cinema.

It's difficult to listen to the main theme and not immediately want to watch the movie again.

 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,347
As far as Cosmic Horror goes, IT seems pretty lame, to be honest, haha. But maybe it's just because I am really not that familiar with King's cosmic universe, so-to-speak.

I would imagine a being that "has existed since the beginning of time" and "planet destroyer" and all that to go down much harder instead of getting ridiculed by a a bunch of normal people using their Spongebob imagination power.
I mean, it's quite a bit more complex and epic in the novel. I mean if I remember correctly

There was a massive test of wills between Bill and It. Bill basically astral projects out into the macro verse and flies through the universe past the giant turtle God to the actual source of the deadlights.

So it's definitely all kinds of epic. Of course

They then have to go around stepping on eggs to kill It's offspring because It is female and had laid eggs.

So it goes back to silly, but overall the ending of the novel leaves me breathless and makes me cry since what happens to the adults afterwards is completely opposite the movie. The movie completely changes the mood doing that and part of the thematic throat of the story.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
As far as Cosmic Horror goes, IT seems pretty lame, to be honest, haha. But maybe it's just because I am really not that familiar with King's cosmic universe, so-to-speak.

I would imagine a being that "has existed since the beginning of time" and "planet destroyer" or "eater of worlds" and all that to go down much harder instead of getting ridiculed by a a bunch of normal people using their Spongebob imagination power.
Apparently seeing the Deadlights is supposed to either instantly kill you or make you go insane and neither of these happens in the film and the Deadlights are out and about pretty often in this one.

Or maybe I'm misremembering.

Here's what I don't get: why does Pennywise take any chances with the Losers at all? He seems pretty well equipped to take out anyone whenever and gives them a lot of time to pull their shit together despite the kids figuring out how to beat him once before.

Why does PW kill some folks right away, even if they aren't scared (little girl) and lets others live to fuck about?
 

MattyG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
i don't get whats all this complaining about the Gay couple scene, it was a strong intro, the town is shit and Pennywise is this depraved monster that feeds on fear, here comes this couple to bigot town, the monster clown appears to eat it was supposed to be scary, if anything the movies lacked more scenes of Derry being this fucked up town with an ancient abomination living below feeding on the people's fear and bigotry, i thought it was nice the movie wasn't afraid to portray homophobia just as it is,some evil shit rare in hollywood movies and yes the bar is that low. I was surprised they showed a kiss

It was more fleshed out in the book though
My disappointment with this is that they barely do anything with it after, and it doesn't feel like it fits into a bigger narrative about the awful nature of the town due to how little they focus on the town itself this movie. There's the scene with Reggie in the arcade and that's it. He doesn't come out to his friends, he doesn't have to face down that level of bigotry as an adult. Hell, they won't even acknowledge his queerness out loud even though it's very explicit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,780
Bandung Indonesia
I mean, it's quite a bit more complex and epic in the novel. I mean if I remember correctly

There was a massive test of wills between Bill and It. Bill basically astral projects out into the macro verse and flies through the universe past the giant turtle God to the actual source of the deadlights.

So it's definitely all kinds of epic. Of course

They then have to go around stepping on eggs to kill It's offspring because It is female and had laid eggs.

So it goes back to silly, but overall the ending of the novel leaves me breathless and makes me cry since what happens to the adults afterwards is completely opposite the movie. The movie completely changes the mood doing that and part of the thematic throat of the story.
Apparently seeing the Deadlights is supposed to either instantly kill you or make you go insane and neither of these happens in the film and the Deadlights are out and about pretty often in this one.
Yeah in my opinion I don't think the movies managed to properly convey the "ancient-ness" and the "cosmic-horror" ness of IT. This is a creature that is the enemy of a being that created the universe, a being that has existed since the beginning of time ; and yet in these movies IT seems so... mundane, like something that is just as powerful as a random monster in a random horror movie.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
Yeah in my opinion I don't think the movies managed to properly convey the "ancient-ness" and the "cosmic-horror" ness of IT. This is a creature that is the enemy of a being that created the universe, a being that has existed since the beginning of time ; and yet in these movies IT seems so... mundane, like something that is just as powerful as a random monster in a random horror movie.
It's a limitation of the medium, I think.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
11,393
I understand. But like...we know homophobia is evil. Same with racism, yet I wouldn't have wanted to see a botched lynching that ends in Pennywise eating a black dude just to hammer the point home that Derry is a trash town inhabited by a trash monster. That much is known. My hope from reading articles was that it would somehow add context that really makes Pennywise excessively depraved, but...I felt nothing in particular for him because honestly, you can't get lower than child-eating Eldritch abomination. All that scene did was make me cry. I mean, nothing even happened to those assholes (that I could tell).

Fucking sucked. I can't sit through that again if I rerun this.
They actually show a male couple kissing and its a realistic (and sad) portrayal of homophobia, for both the couple and the kid , for an horror movie its pretty good lol, its more than freaking MARVEL has done in 100 movies imo
 

MoosetheMark

Member
May 3, 2019
90
Yeah in my opinion I don't think the movies managed to properly convey the "ancient-ness" and the "cosmic-horror" ness of IT. This is a creature that is the enemy of a being that created the universe, a being that has existed since the beginning of time ; and yet in these movies IT seems so... mundane, like something that is just as powerful as a random monster in a random horror movie.
This is why book Chud is so good. The Losers literally get in Pennywise's head and he basically monologues his entire cosmic origin. Simple but effective, he really sells how ancient and powerful and utterly unknowable It is, and there's real tension in the scene because everyone is almost suffocating from the smoke and one by one all the kids are forced to bail.

We're talking paragraphs of intense and extremely italicized text. I don't know if this monstrous, feral incarnation of Pennywise could really pull it off.
 

DarthOrange

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,624
Southern California, Mexico
What a shitty second part, like seriously. The first hour was good, but after that, it went wayyy downward. Too much CGI ( and can we speak on how bad they were? Last time i remember that bad CGI it was the first GI Joe ). Bill Hader really steal the show, but beside that, nothing is worth remembering. This movie is a contender with Godzilla for worst movie of the year, no doubt!
I loved this movie and throughly enjoyed Godzilla. What have been some of your favorite movies this year so far? Genuinely curious as I always love recommendations from people with different taste from my own.

Also Hellboy is totally the worst movie of the year so far, or at the very least a strong contender.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
I loved this movie and throughly enjoyed Godzilla. What have been some of your favorite movies this year so far? Genuinely curious as I always love recommendations from people with different taste from my own.

Also Hellboy is totally the worst movie of the year so far, or at the very least a strong contender.
I can't speak for them but I would say Midsommer is up there among the best. And The Farewell.

Toy Story 4 is great. Booksmart is now available to rent, very good.

If you're looking for great horror this year has been real thin. I found Us a bit disappointing and even though I love Midsommer I would even hesitate to call it a horror movie.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,347
The ending was probably King’s idea or done with his blessing. All those jokes about endings makes me think he did some advising or writing on the scripts.
I also couldn't stand the fact that the adults remembered everything. Half of the power of the novel ending is that, no, you can't be a kid again, and yes some things are just too traumatic and even good things might get wiped away to protect yourself from them. All of that personal stuff happening even after at a macro level the entire damn town collapses into the Earth because it's a cess pool, so the town is wiped from the Earth like it's wiped from their minds.

If King helped rewrite this changed ending after helping add references to his penchant for bad endings, then it's highly ironic that he decided to change what I consider his best ending (out of what King I've read anyway).
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,200
Midsommar was fantastic.

Us was not good. I have no idea where all that critical praise came from. It was goofy as fuck and felt like a middling episode of twilight zone. Which it basically was.
 

MoosetheMark

Member
May 3, 2019
90
I also couldn't stand the fact that the adults remembered everything. Half of the power of the novel ending is that, no, you can't be a kid again, and yes some things are just too traumatic and even good things might get wiped away to protect yourself from them. All of that personal stuff happening even after at a macro level the entire damn town collapses into the Earth because it's a cess pool, so the town is wiped from the Earth like it's wiped from their minds.

If King helped rewrite this changed ending after helping add references to his penchant for bad endings, then it's highly ironic that he decided to change what I consider his best ending (out of what King I've read anyway).
King recently talked about writing a new ending to the Stand for the CBS miniseries, he says its been something he's wanted to explore for a while.
Apparently he really wants to show how Frannie and Stu ended up after leaving the Free Zone behind.
I don't think that's as fundamental of a change as It's ending though. It's heartbreaking when Mike calls up one of the Losers and they can barely remember each other in the book.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
2,045
Criticisms of films based in books need to keep some perspective, you cant fit every aspect of a book into a film
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,647
Yeah the movie completely fails to capture the cosmic horror or anything close to it. On some level IT doesn't even feel alien or all that dangerous and it's just a good old fashion fuck around.

Making the deadlights actually dangerous would have been a start, but everybody is looking at em and it's fine, just snapping out of it like nothing.
 

TheModestGun

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,464
I enjoyed it, but I definitely felt like it was a bit weak compared to the first one. The casting was great, but it felt like maybe they packed to much unnecessary scare stuff in places that they could have focused on the character development.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,647
I do want to say the casting was uncannily good, not only in picking actors who really do look like grown up versions of the kids, but also good actors. They really nailed the casting.

I wish pennywise was less jump scare and more alien cosmic horror scare
 

DarthOrange

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,624
Southern California, Mexico
I can't speak for them but I would say Midsommer is up there among the best. And The Farewell.

Toy Story 4 is great. Booksmart is now available to rent, very good.

If you're looking for great horror this year has been real thin. I found Us a bit disappointing and even though I love Midsommer I would even hesitate to call it a horror movie.
Midsommar was fantastic.

Us was not good. I have no idea where all that critical praise came from. It was goofy as fuck and felt like a middling episode of twilight zone. Which it basically was.
Oh man y'all are breaking my heart. Us is by far my favorite movie of the year. It Chapter 2 currently feels like my second favorite but I want to marinate on it for a bit longer.

Midsomar is on my radar but I didn't actually like Hereditary as much as everyone else did so expectations are in check.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,200
Oh man y'all are breaking my heart. Us is by far my favorite movie of the year. It Chapter 2 currently feels like my second favorite but I want to marinate on it for a bit longer.

Midsomar is on my radar but I didn't actually like Hereditary as much as everyone else did so expectations are in check.
Hey as long as you love it nothing else matters. Movies are so, so subjective. I think far more than people even realize.

It just didnt vibe with me and that broke MY heart because I adored Get Out.

And if you weren't big on hereditary I doubt you will be on midsommar since thematically it's very similar to hereditary. You can feel Ari working out very personal things on screen.

Which is what I liked about Get Out. It felt personal. And for me Us didnt feel like anything
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,744
Hot take: this is the shit that general audiences are actually looking for.

The two IT films are full of tropes and cliches and little tricks that have been done to death and it really undermines everything else in the films that is fresh and original.

Rewatching Part 1 the other night I was irritated during one of the big horror scenes when you can hear a loud, non-diagetic heartbeat in a scene that is otherwise not particularly tense. That is such a lame trick. Took me right out of the movie.
It’s not even a hot take. People love shitty horror tropes. They love jump scares. It’s like they’ve been conditioned to think this is like the only way to get scared.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,522
Yeah in my opinion I don't think the movies managed to properly convey the "ancient-ness" and the "cosmic-horror" ness of IT. This is a creature that is the enemy of a being that created the universe, a being that has existed since the beginning of time ; and yet in these movies IT seems so... mundane, like something that is just as powerful as a random monster in a random horror movie.
I haven't read the book, so maybe it's different there, but I always figured this was the irony of it and kind of a note for how pathetic he really is.

Forget about the idea that he's as old as the universe and just take his abilities at face value: He is a shapeshifting, mindreading, reality morphing, nigh invulnerable force of terror. So long as no one ever figures out that his one weakness is belief, he is completely unstoppable. The only reason the Losers figure that out is because of the sheer number of prolonged engagements they had with It that unveil this one weakness.

He's as omnipotent as you can be in the world while still having a vulnerability and what does he do? He spends his time scaring and killing kids. He lives in a small fuckoff nowhere town and the only people he chooses to exercise his vast, near unlimited power against are the weakest and most vulnerable of human society. Then once he finishes his binge eating he sleeps for nearly 3 decades before getting up to eat again.

Some of that is strategic, like targeting children makes sense because they won't be believed if they talk about him, but otherwise,It comes off as not just a bully, which is obviously what the story is an extended allegory for, yes, but also a....well, loser. Not living up to his potential in any sense of the word, picking on the smallest possible fish despite his great power. He's not a vast, unknowable creature like the cosmic horrors of Lovecrafts ilk whose motivations are unknowable and their regard of humanity indifferent. He's just a sadistic asshole who only wants to target people that have no chance against him.

In a way, it seems like almost a deliberate subversion of what you'd expect a cosmic horror to actually be. All that eldritch, worldchanging power, and all It amounts to is a child predator in some rinky dink town. Like you can imagine his other eldritch family or friends meeting up with him and them having driven a planet insane or re-written laws of physics in a part of the cosmos, and he has to admit that all he spends his time doing is sleeping and eating kids, and they're like "What happened to you, man?"
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,836
After I recovered from being in stitches watching Eddie choke the leper with 3 foot tongue and it 🤮 all over his face to the music, and Henry stabbing whomever in the face who then attempted to talk with it jutting out of his cheek like a moron.

Yeah, at that point I was about done.
Both of those scenes were hilarious lol, I loved them.
 

Donald Draper

Member
Feb 2, 2019
1,200
Horror comedy is a fine line to walk. I just dont think this film had the balls to go full comedy and it suffered for it. Like it wanted to be funny and scary. It wanted to be goofy and silly but also wanted to be taken serious. And that can work for comic book films but it didnt work for me in this instance.

Instead of blending it felt tonally inconsistent and disjointed.
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,255
After I recovered from being in stitches watching Eddie choke the leper with 3 foot tongue and it 🤮 all over his face to the music, and Henry stabbing whomever in the face who then attempted to talk with it jutting out of his cheek like a moron.

Yeah, at that point I was about done.
Don't forget the hastily ADR'd mullet insult they added in post.

I think they realized the adults, outside of BH, weren't as interesting or funny as the kids, so they fudged the tone to hell by adding in little jokes and comedic moments. It was a horrible film experience and I never want to see it again.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
Horror comedy is a fine line to walk. I just dont think this film had the balls to go full comedy and it suffered for it. Like it wanted to be funny and scary. It wanted to be goofy and silly but also wanted to be taken serious. And that can work for comic book films but it didnt work for me in this instance.

Instead of blending it felt tonally inconsistent and disjointed.
It's a matter of easing tension vs cutting tension. This movie has no finesse.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,319
Midsommar was pretty funny but it never felt like it was undercutting the horror or drama or the sensory moments. Ari Aster knows when to let the film live in the mood. He knows how to build dread and earn a release. He achieves emotional catharsis.

Midsommar somehow ended up being shorter than this, too?? Original cut, anyway. I remember people complaining it was long.

Edit: of course it also opened at 6 mil with a domestic total of $27M and It Ch. 2 more than tripled that this weekend. So whatever
 
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shotopunx

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
846
Dublin, Ireland
The more I think about this, the more I dislike it. How you take something as unique and bizarre as the novel, and turn into something this bland is beyond me.
 

Monkey DTT

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,238
USA West Virginia
I'm really souring on the movie, I liked it coming out of the theater but all my problems are direction and pacing. So many damn jump scares that you feel nothing by the half way mark, and this is coming from a coward. They used flash backs so often and most were just added spooky scenes that didn't add anything.

It felt really Hollywood, like the heart wasnt as strong either.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,311
It’s not even a hot take. People love shitty horror tropes. They love jump scares. It’s like they’ve been conditioned to think this is like the only way to get scared.
It’s not “like” that. It’s literally that. People are accustomed to see what they see often. Like a melody that seems to grow on you the more you hear it, the expected beats and rhythms of cheap thrills become the want and expectation in entertainment. There is a reason such stuff is derided as targeting the lowest common denominator. It is easy to do, and it is effective for a large amount of people, who, if they got anything else, would be confused and unhappy that their expectations were not met.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,836
Personally I think they should have completely cut out Henry Bowers, the girl under the bleachers, and some of the second act scares. Even though I liked most of those scenes, they didn't really serve to forward the story in any way and just padded out an already-long movie. Should've kept them for the double-cut version that Andy is planning, imo.

Speaking of which, I really hope we'll get to see that scene with Pennywise jumping horizontally out of a window. Seems like it ties into the scene with Mike and his flashback.
 

HF2014

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,138
I loved this movie and throughly enjoyed Godzilla. What have been some of your favorite movies this year so far? Genuinely curious as I always love recommendations from people with different taste from my own.

Also Hellboy is totally the worst movie of the year so far, or at the very least a strong contender.
Havent seen Hellboy, well didnt want to watch it. The original was a masterpiece, this one looks like puke to me. :)

Think my top movies so far this year, if i have to make a quick top 3, would be Midsommar, Scary Stories to tell in the Dark, John Wick 3. Surprise for me was Ready or Not, like i expect nothing and came out very satisfied!
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,528
Apparently seeing the Deadlights is supposed to either instantly kill you or make you go insane and neither of these happens in the film and the Deadlights are out and about pretty often in this one.

Or maybe I'm misremembering.

Here's what I don't get: why does Pennywise take any chances with the Losers at all? He seems pretty well equipped to take out anyone whenever and gives them a lot of time to pull their shit together despite the kids figuring out how to beat him once before.

Why does PW kill some folks right away, even if they aren't scared (little girl) and lets others live to fuck about?
Funny enough even the mini series explained the actual reason correctly.




At this point, in the book he's terrified of the Losers, and that's why he sends Bowers after them. He gets cocky again when Stan dies because he thinks the loser's power is weaker now that they lost a member. As for the reason, they manage to defeat him as children is because they're getting aided by his cosmic rival the Turtle, and it's easier for them to believe they can beat him as children because Adults are naturally cynical.
 
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Apr 14, 2018
2,581
Whats the over/under on WB announcing a Pennywise origins prequel

Whats the over/under in WB announcing a straight up sequel

?
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
723
Yeah, there's a difference in Pennywise's motivations here. In the book, he's actually afraid of the adult Losersso he tries to spook them out of town, then sends Bowers after them.

This Pennywise seemed to specifically want revenge, which makes the Bowers subplot not make much sense.

Man, the first hour or so of this movie was a big mess, but I thought it improved as it went along. The funhouse scene and the birthmark girl scene were the highlights to me, and I really liked the last act.
 

vitamind

Member
Nov 1, 2018
94
The movies are basically Stand by Me with horror elements. Childhood, trauma, innocence, and friendship are major themes opposed to straight horror.
 

Dusktildawn48

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,256
St. Louis
Loved the movie, have seen chapter 1 probably 15+ times. And because of that the de aging of the kids was super obvious. Both in the face and the voices. Haven't seen that mentioned in here.
 

Run Goku

Member
Oct 25, 2017
734
I was really hoping we would get something like this:

Love this pic, where's it from? Here is another one that is cartoony in style but just perfectly captures the book's idea:

I really wish the movie had tried to depict the ritual like this. People say it would've been too weird or difficult for a mainstream horror movie to attempt, but like...Doctor Strange and other Marvel flicks go into cosmic/space stuff all the time, and that's about as mainstream as it gets.