It is still possible to avoid getting an (alleged) rapist as President. A few possible scenarios

Should Democrats try to stop Biden because of the allegations that he is a rapist? If so, how?

  • Yes. Go scorched earth on Biden and try to make Sanders win (scenario 1)

  • Yes. A third candidate should (re)enter the race to achieve a contested convention (scenario 2)

  • Yes. Leaders of the party and others should try to talk to Biden to choose a replacement (scenario 3

  • No. It's too late to stop Biden or to risky to try. We're stuck voting for him (scenario 4)

  • No. I like Biden's policies more so I support him despite him being an (alleged) rapist (stance 5)


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TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,472
Long Island
These posts ignore how the Reade accusation could (and should) change opinions. Suburban women preferred Biden weeks ago, but would they have still preferred him had the credible accusation of rape been well known? Biden, Obama's lovable VP, versus Biden, the rapist.

And saying that the country "doesn't respect" Bernie or other non-Biden candidates just because Biden (prior to the accusation) won primaries is absurd. If candidates that don't win primaries aren't respected, Biden shouldn't be going on to be the nominee given his two previous failed presidential campaigns, and Hillary shouldn't have become the nominee in 2016.
We have the recent lack of interest in Bernie 3 weeks in a row as proof as to why it shouldn’t be him. We have to roll with the larger majority. Well i mean you don’t have to but i will be.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,549
Arkansas, USA
Aside from the fact that the black community IS NOT a monolith and like all demographics there is just as much as a difference between the opinions of older black people and younger black people it is not anyones responsibility to coddle people who attach their entire identity to a party. If we make fun of Republicans for doing it than Democrats are fair game.
Deciding not to "coddle people" isn't exactly a winning electoral strategy. You can't win elections when you are combative towards the people who might actually vote for you. The failure of leftists to understand this is why they fail time and time again to win elections.


The DNC isn't the Democratic Party but they DO forsee almost everything the Democratic party runs is hardly a distinction worth giving a shit about. They might as well be the same in all but names and a few minor details.
There are massive differences between the various chapters of the Democratic party. The DNC and the much broader Democratic party are not the same at all.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
987
Deciding not to "coddle people" isn't exactly a winning electoral strategy. You can't win elections when you are combative towards the people who might actually vote for you. The failure of online leftists to understand this is why they fail time and time again to win elections.
Neither was the mess I've seen all week in PoliERA of screaming at Bernie voters to vote for Biden otherwise they are no better than a Trump voter. We saw that shit fail hard in 2016 but I guess when it comes to moderate candidates they aren't allowed to learn any lessons and can continue to blame everyone else for their L's and demand others continually make compromises for their shitty candidate with the promise that things will get better.



There are massive differences between the various chapters of the Democratic party. The DNC and the much broader Democratic party are not the same at all.
in the grand scheme of things how much does this matter when all the wheels are in motion? To damn near everyone but the most die hard (even on this forum) the wishes of the Democratic Party influences the DNC and vice-versa. It's a revolving door.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,794
the DNC and DCCC are largely gatekeepers to the most important part of a Democrat politician's job (unfortunately). And that's getting elected.
They can, have, and do ice people out within the party and control more than you'd think for obvious reasons. ("Do you want to be working here next season?")

anyone on the not-nice list will find it hard to pay for their campaigns while they do their other jobs, and would take a miracle, really strong local base, or a populist movement to keep them in office. That's where the "taking on the party" thing often comes from.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,771
Canada
America isn't ready to vote for a Socialist. I'm no fan of capitalism but she made the right call there.
Okay, but my point is there are other reasons for Warren's loss beyond sexism as you seemed to suggest. She wasn't left enough for the Bernie crowd, and if you were a moderate dem Biden was your guy.
 

Thorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,644
Okay, but my point is there are other reasons for Warren's loss beyond sexism as you seemed to suggest. She wasn't left enough for the Bernie crowd, and if you were a moderate dem Biden was your guy.
Sure, there were multiple reasons, just saying sadly gender is still going to be an issue in this country.

Warren was my first choice, then Sanders because I knew she lost early on.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,549
Arkansas, USA
Neither was the mess I've seen all week in PoliERA of screaming at Bernie voters to vote for Biden otherwise they are no better than a Trump voter. We saw that shit fail hard in 2016 but I guess when it comes to moderate candidates they aren't allowed to learn any lessons and can continue to blame everyone else for their L's and demand others continually make compromises for their shitty candidate with the promise that things will get better.
People are desperate for the various factions that typically vote for Democratic candidates to unify so that we can beat back the rise of fascism. They want the primary to end so that we can focus on the true enemy, rather than fighting each other.

That said the time for more moderate Democratic voters to compromise and vote for someone that is more to the left than they'd like is coming. This primary proves that we're not there yet.

in the grand scheme of things how much does this matter when all the wheels are in motion? To damn near everyone but the most die hard (even on this forum) the wishes of the Democratic Party influences the DNC and vice-versa. It's a revolving door.
Well, yeah that's how democracy is supposed to work. If young people actually voted the broader party would more steadfastly support leftist politicians. They aren't going to line up behind someone with a coalition that fails to turn out enough voters to win. The leftist Millennials and Zoomers will vote in much higher numbers in the coming years though, so that calculation will change alongside it.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
Mmim not entirely sure if this thread is warranted. These are all fantasy scenarios at best. I get that people lie Bernie but it's time to step into reality.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
987
People are desperate for the various factions that typically vote for Democratic candidates to unify so that we can beat back the rise of fascism. They want the primary to end so that we can focus on the true enemy, rather than fighting each other.

That said the time for more moderate Democratic voters to compromise and vote for someone that is more to the left than they'd like is coming. This primary proves that we're not there yet.
The Democratic party will never be unified because the only thing they are good at doing is courting Leftists with the promise that they will fight for them only to field tepid water center right candidates that hardly do shit to fight back Fascism.

How many times do we have to bring up the Birmingham Letter to get this point across? There will always be a 'threat' that the DNC needs 'beat' so they force everyone to rally around the candidate that is most disliked by every fucking demographic EXCEPT white moderate voters with the promise that if they win THEN they will focus on the real issues. However every year there is always a 'threat' that the-- you get the point. It's a farce.


Well, yeah that's how democracy is supposed to work. If young people actually voted the broader party would more steadfastly support leftist politicians. They aren't going to line up behind someone with a coalition that fails to turn out enough voters to win. The leftist Millennials and Zoomers will vote in much higher numbers in the coming years though, so that calculation will change alongside it.
The DNC does not like young voters and have purposefully made zero effort to court them because if they were successful it would mean there is an actual risk of implementing true leftists policy and not the neo-liberal bullshit we all suffer in and that hurts their billion to millionaire dollar pockets.
I guarantee you if the Democratic Party fought just as hard to get young people to vote as opposed to non-voting white, moderate, centrists than we would be having a different conversation.
 

Landawng

The Fallen
Nov 9, 2017
2,394
Denver/Aurora, CO
Is it possible? Sure

Will it happen? No

I also said it was impossible for Trump to get elected two days before the election so don’t listen to me, or anyone really. Anything can happen
 

Zornack

Member
Oct 29, 2017
936
The DNC does not like young voters and have purposefully made zero effort to court them because if they were successful it would mean there is an actual risk of implementing true leftists policy and not the neo-liberal bullshit we all suffer in and that hurts their billion to millionaire dollar pockets.
I guarantee you if the Democratic Party fought just as hard to get young people to vote as opposed to non-voting white, moderate, centrists than we would be having a different conversation.
Conspiracy theories are fun but not functional.

MOD EDIT: quote was assigned to user that didn't say that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,549
Arkansas, USA
The Democratic party will never be unified because the only thing they are good at doing is courting Leftists with the promise that they will fight for them only to field tepid water center right candidates that hardly do shit to fight back Fascism.

How many times do we have to bring up the Birmingham Letter to get this point across? There will always be a 'threat' that the DNC needs 'beat' so they force everyone to rally around the candidate that is most disliked by every fucking demographic EXCEPT white moderate voters with the promise that if they win THEN they will focus on the real issues. However every year there is always a 'threat' that the-- you get the point. It's a farce.
Really? Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and Barrack Obama were not disliked by every demographic except white moderates. If they were they would not have been nominated nor won their elections.

And guess what? The Democratic party has had unified control of DC for exactly 4 years over the past four decades. It is awful, but this country took a hard turn right with Reagan and it is just now starting to turn back.

The DNC does not like young voters and have purposefully made zero effort to court them because if they were successful it would mean there is an actual risk of implementing true leftists policy and not the neo-liberal bullshit we all suffer in and that hurts their billion to millionaire dollar pockets.

I guarantee you if the Democratic Party fought just as hard to get young people to vote as opposed to non-voting white, moderate, centrists than we would be having a different conversation.
You aren't living in reality dude. White moderates aren't non-voters, they vote more than just about any demographic. So guess what that means? They get the candidates that they like nominated and often elected.
 

grandjedi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,075
It's hard to respond to a question and premise made in bad faith. There's no real discussion to be had in this thread because it makes the same fallacies as many political arguments.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,549
Arkansas, USA
It amazes me the extent to which people deny how far right the US is as a country. The last time major, societal transformation was undertaken the leaders who pushed it were assassinated. There is a powerful segment of this country that will stop at nothing to get what it wants. And they have the backing of millions of brainwashed gun owners. It is no small feat to go up against them and win.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
It amazes me the extent to which people deny how far right the US is as a country. The last time major, societal transformation was undertaken the leaders who pushed it were assassinated. There is a powerful segment of this country that will stop at nothing to get what it wants. And they have the backing of millions of brainwashed gun owners. It is no small feat to go up against them and win.
It's not nearly as far as it used to be. The difference between traditional Democrats and democratic socialists is that traditional Democrats realize that change takes time. Democratic socialists want change over night and anything less is unacceptable. None of the social advancements this country has made happened over night (or without great cost). The country today is more tolerant of homosexuals, interracial couples, and transgenders than it was even 10 years ago. Things will obviously continue to progress, but it won't happen overnight. That's just the way this country has always been.
 

iksenpets

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,158
Dallas, TX
3 is the best option. Not that that means good option, but you know. You probably couldn’t talk Biden into stepping down in favor of whomever he chooses as VP, but it’s more likely than the others. Option 1 has virtually no chance of working, which makes it in all likelihood a pro-Trump strategy, and 2 is even less likely to work than that.
 

Kaelan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
Maryland
The following needs to happen imo

- Warren needs to eviscerate Biden on the alleviation’s, just like she did with bloomburg

- Obama needs to call Biden and tell him to drop out. Obama was the one who warned him against it, perhaps his old friend could get tohim and tell him to go out gracefully. If he doesn’t, Obama should endorse Bernie, hopefully enough to get some older blacks to take notice, I dunno though
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,999
Short of major health issues Biden is the Democratic candidate. No amount of online discussion or grass roots will get Bernie the votes needed to pull a comeback.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,794
Short of major health issues Biden is the Democratic candidate. No amount of online discussion or grass roots will get Bernie the votes needed to pull a comeback.
If people take these allegations seriously and tell Joe they're not confident he'll win...a lot of things can happen between now and then. He doesn't have to die or get sick in order for him to not be the candidate.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,973
Greater Vancouver
Sanders was always the better candidate, while Biden has coasted by association to the greater public with his history to Obama. But Biden has always had toxic baggage to his name and legacy.
 

Barzul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,398
This argument just feels circular in every thread it comes up in. We know the facts. The bottom line is America doesn’t care they voted a rapist before and they’ll do it again. Clinton after the Lewinsky trial and subsequent impeachment had super high approval ratings. This country doesn’t care about morality and goodness or purity of message. Understanding that, truly understanding that is important to succeeding in winning a nomination and subsequently the presidency. The people that do enough to not vote are a minority in one of the two major parties, but there’s probably enough of them to swing an election but a rapist still wins. That’s the flaw of the American democratic process, we’re mostly always stuck with shit choices. In a way I kinda wish Bernie Sanders was not the progressive standard bearer, he’s a great messenger but he’s a shit politician with great ideas and doggedness. He never showed the guile required to actually win a primary, this should’ve been a cakewalk. If he had shown a willingness to compromise on a few issues, moderate voltron wouldn't have been so quick to assemble. Obama would never have made the missteps and the arrogant moves the Sanders campaign made, they couldn’t afford to. I’ve accepted that Obama from a morality stand point will be the best president of my lifetime. All my other votes will be damage limitation. I’m still hopeful that one day we’ll get a progressive candidate that actually knows how to sell a message to more than 30% of the Democratic base cause Sanders clearly ain’t it.
 

Supermanisdead

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
981
It's honestly best that the DNC and media have this conversation now. You know the media engine is going to run full swing in October with this story. In fact, they might be ignoring it now so they can go back to it when it would hurt the most.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,316
The Democratic establishment would prefer 4 more years of Trump to giving Sanders and what he represents any validity.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,513
New Orleans
It's not nearly as far as it used to be. The difference between traditional Democrats and democratic socialists is that traditional Democrats realize that change takes time. Democratic socialists want change over night and anything less is unacceptable. None of the social advancements this country has made happened over night (or without great cost). The country today is more tolerant of homosexuals, interracial couples, and transgenders than it was even 10 years ago. Things will obviously continue to progress, but it won't happen overnight. That's just the way this country has always been.
Or maybe Democratic Socialists equate "change takes time" with "change never happens". We've been pushing for universal healthcare for ~80 years, and have yet to achieve it while numerous other countries have. And now, in the goddamn era of COVID-19, we still see the front runner refusing to support universal healthcare via Medicare for All.

Stop fucking around and support something substantial.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
The Democratic establishment would prefer 4 more years of Trump to giving Sanders and what he represents any validity.
I see this posted over and over again but have yet to see any evidence that it's actually true. Who, specifically, is the "establishment?" Is it the DNC? Why on Earth would they prefer four more years of Trump? Where have they done anything to indicate that?
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,698
If Biden had sense and cared about the country, he would drop and support Bernie on the way out. He is absolutely a liability in November, I doubt even the shittiest of moderate Democrat would contend Bernie would be worse than Trump.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,326
It's not nearly as far as it used to be. The difference between traditional Democrats and democratic socialists is that traditional Democrats realize that change takes time. Democratic socialists want change over night and anything less is unacceptable. None of the social advancements this country has made happened over night (or without great cost). The country today is more tolerant of homosexuals, interracial couples, and transgenders than it was even 10 years ago. Things will obviously continue to progress, but it won't happen overnight. That's just the way this country has always been.
“You always told me ‘It takes time.’ It’s taken my father’s time, my mother’s time, my uncle’s time, my brothers’ and my sisters’ time. How much time do you want for your progress?”
 

Neo C.

Member
Nov 9, 2017
899
I'm fine with whatever options you have, just put Biden out of the race.
Honestly he shouldn't have run in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,324
I see this posted over and over again but have yet to see any evidence that it's actually true. Who, specifically, is the "establishment?" Is it the DNC? Why on Earth would they prefer four more years of Trump? Where have they done anything to indicate that?
Technically, they tried to rig it when they increased the number of debates, lowered the requirements for candidates to get into the debates, moved California’s voting date up, and got rid of superdelegates. The problem is that these were all changes Bernie wanted and were supposed to be purely to his benefit, but they all bit him in the ass. The superdelegates were a particularly bad fuckup, because instead of having a mechanism that could theoretically prevent Biden from being the nominee, we’re stuck with hoping for circumstances that make him drop out.

People can’t point to anything concrete that the DNC has done because that would require admitting that the way Bernie ruined his own chances went beyond his campaign.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,786
Miami
I'm fine with whatever options you have, just put Biden out of the race.
Honestly he shouldn't have run in the first place.
I don't think that Biden could have run and been the front-runner in this race if not for the fact that Trump has permanently lowered the bar for what's acceptable in a POTUS. I'm actually really afraid of the kind of candidates we're going to be seeing in presidential races going forward.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
2,216
honestly, biden is a pos, but the fact that people will still overwhelmingly vote for him just goes to show how unelectable sanders is
 

bdbdbd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
I'm somewhere between scenario 2 & 3. #3 as presented is too wishy-washy, so I lean a bit towards #2.

Scenario #3 shouldn't be "should try to talk to Biden" it should be DEMAND Biden undergo a formal investigation and that he is suspended from the race until the investigation is resolved.
 

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,986
I know close to a dozen trump voters who like bernie more, i know precisely zero who like biden more. Bernie beats Trump every time.
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,254
This isn't going to happen. The party's ever-wise voters decided they wanted a stupid lazy pathological liar of their very own, and now they just have to hope negative partisanship and coronavirus drag Sketchy Joe over the finish line. It might even work depending on how bad things get.