Lotta jobs are going to be gonzo in a few years:
SDM, Costco, Walmart, Loblaws all have increased the number of self-service aisles
Mcdonald's, Harveys, Pizzapizza all pushing phone app purchasing
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It's next to impossible to pay the rent working full time for minimum wage, new report calculates
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
- Start date
SDM, Costco, Walmart, Loblaws all have increased the number of self-service aisles
Mcdonald's, Harveys, Pizzapizza all pushing phone app purchasing
Apparently this data also includes people who area already in an apartment. So people looking to move/find their first apartment are paying more, and in some cases a lot more.
Take Kitchener, according to the chart in the OP a 1 bedroom is a little over $1000/month. Currently?
If anyone has below market rent, they are stuck there. If you get offered a better paying job that is too far away from where you currently live, the entire pay increase can end up eaten by the rent increase from having to move.
Good god...
I'm down here in the US living in a 2 Story 3 bedroom house paying $880 a month...and that includes insurance/escrow.
Granted, the trade-off is I'm surrounded by racists....
So the people who can least afford to commute should have to commute the most?
Yes, most low skill jobs wont see the end of the next decade, followed by many entry level jobs and support work. With the decline in private sector unionization rates, no focus on making education and continued education affordable and accessible and no push for affordable housing, not to mention the increasing retirement age - large segments of our population are going to need substantial support in ways that we just are not equipped to handle.
Unfortunately for big towns or cities, rent is getting really screwy. I use to live in Newmarket and I've heard it's getting rough out there. Currently reside in a two bedroom for 1000 inclusive in Peterborough, so I'd say me and my wife got real lucky.
Public transit has always been something for which usage declines as income increases. But there is no will to fully subsidize its cost through taxes, which means the most marginalized end up having to pay to use the service.
In Ottawa, the transit union would strike in February which lrft the poorest workers with very few options at the coldest time of the year. Imagine having to cab to your minimum wage job... the days wages probably would scarcely offset the cost to get there, but if you miss a day you get fired.
'Fuck you i got mine.'
What surprises me is seeing Barrie and Oshawa so high on the unaffordability scale. Those aren't "big cities" (~150k plus or minus a few thousand) and the cost is so high! I live in Ottawa currently but grew up in Barrie, and it boggles my mind that it's more expensive to live back home in the average neighborhood that was assessed, but I suppose that's inflation resulting from the commute to Toronto crowd.
For anyone saying "well yeah, it's minimum wage, you shouldn't expect to be able to live somewhere..." ummm, way to miss the point? They assessed 800 neighborhoods in 36 cities across the country, this isn't just the downtown core of Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal we're talking about. Only 70 neighborhoods out of 800 that we're looked at can you afford to rent a one bedroom apartment on minimum wage. These are the people working in most stores, doing property maintenance jobs and providing janitorial services, providing customer support, all those things that are required for our current society to function. These are the people who couldn't afford to go to school and get a university degree to improve income potential, who had a kid when they were 16 and now have to support a family, who once got arrested for getting in a fight or whatever and have a criminal record so now nobody will hire them, who got kicked out of the house at 18 and had to quickly get a job to pay the rent so they weren't homeless. Only, newsflash, they are pretty much forced to be homeless or just live in endless debt because it's impossible to afford a place to live.
If you think a single parent who works at Starbucks or Chapters or Walmart etc should be living with 2 other roommates to rent out a two bedroom apartment with the living room converted into a third, their kid sleeping on a cot in their parent's bedroom, commuting 1.5 hours a day in public transit to get to their minimum wage job and say "well too bad, nobody should expect to be able to afford their own place"....uh, well, you're fucking wrong. Either housing costs need to drop or wages need to increase significantly. Sure, I agree that someone who works a baseline cashier job at McDonald's probably shouldn't make the same salary as someone who engineers municipal infrastructure, is a doctor or does social work or whatever, but they also shouldn't have to live in poverty. They should be able to at least function in our society. And affordable housing is a huge factor in that.
For anyone saying "well yeah, it's minimum wage, you shouldn't expect to be able to live somewhere..." ummm, way to miss the point? They assessed 800 neighborhoods in 36 cities across the country, this isn't just the downtown core of Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal we're talking about. Only 70 neighborhoods out of 800 that we're looked at can you afford to rent a one bedroom apartment on minimum wage. These are the people working in most stores, doing property maintenance jobs and providing janitorial services, providing customer support, all those things that are required for our current society to function. These are the people who couldn't afford to go to school and get a university degree to improve income potential, who had a kid when they were 16 and now have to support a family, who once got arrested for getting in a fight or whatever and have a criminal record so now nobody will hire them, who got kicked out of the house at 18 and had to quickly get a job to pay the rent so they weren't homeless. Only, newsflash, they are pretty much forced to be homeless or just live in endless debt because it's impossible to afford a place to live.
If you think a single parent who works at Starbucks or Chapters or Walmart etc should be living with 2 other roommates to rent out a two bedroom apartment with the living room converted into a third, their kid sleeping on a cot in their parent's bedroom, commuting 1.5 hours a day in public transit to get to their minimum wage job and say "well too bad, nobody should expect to be able to afford their own place"....uh, well, you're fucking wrong. Either housing costs need to drop or wages need to increase significantly. Sure, I agree that someone who works a baseline cashier job at McDonald's probably shouldn't make the same salary as someone who engineers municipal infrastructure, is a doctor or does social work or whatever, but they also shouldn't have to live in poverty. They should be able to at least function in our society. And affordable housing is a huge factor in that.
OP
OP
Do you think people take minimum wage jobs for fun, or are you actually that stupid?
Rent is ridiculous nowadays. It all starts in the downtown core and the ripples out. My tennant never gets her rent increased cause I know she doesn't make a lot and does schooling on the side, so I just cap it off at $950. I don't know how minimum wage folks are handling the stress to live in an area where 1 bedrooms go for 1250+.
I have to move to Paris because of my new job and I'm struggling to find a decent 1 bedroom flat, even though I'll earn about +50% more than minimum wage. And even then, Paris is not that expensive to other big cities, I can't imagine how awful it must be in Toronto.
Any town or city that has a GO train has seen property values go up due to ease of commute downtown, rents just followed suit. This is unfortunate since there are almost no affordable rentals in the GTA. Sure the outer burbs are cheaper to rent, but the time and cost of the commute negate any savings.
If people could just live comfortably, then they will spend time not working, which mean we need to hire more people, which mean our returns will be 1% less!
Tell those lazy asshole to keep working!
Tell those lazy asshole to keep working!
I just ran the (very basic) numbers for Ontario. Also, I had no idea that we had different minimum wages based on job. Like regular minimum wage in Ontario is $14, but students (under 18 working less than 28hrs a week while in school or working during school holidays or the summertime) make $13.15, and liquor servers (i.e. bartenders, those who directly serve alcohol, but not any other kind of server like those at fast food places) make only $12.20.
But assuming a $14 baseline, monthly wage (gross) is only $2240(40 hours, 4 weeks). Combined federal and provincial taxes (15+5.05%) leaves you at $1780.80 monthly or $21369.60 annually.
Using the realtor.ca app and looking for a one bedroom rental apartment in say, Barrie, I found ~$1400 to be the cost (with only like 12 places showing up). PadMapper shows 7 places (searched studio and 1 bedroom) at an average of ~$1450. These also include a house that rents out bedrooms to students in a house at $550, which appears to be the only place anyone making minimum wage could actually afford to live.
Now admittedly, this is a super cursory, low effort search in only two apps, but is likely at least somewhat representative of reality. There's no way that those people could afford to live there.
Also, I found a basement apartment in the actual house I grew up in as a kid for $1400. It's much nicer than when my brother lived in the basement, (his bedroom is now a kitchen, the laundry room is now a bedroom and our completely unfinished den is now a living room with a washing machine in it) but that place is the definition of suburbia with nothing around except a graveyard across the street and a plaza including a Macs, Buffalo Wild Wings and a hairdresser in walking distance, probably clocks in at ~500 sq ft and is absolutely not worth $1400. That shit is crazy.
Min wage was ment for kids starting out at 16. Thanks to how the economy was crafted the past 30 years, it is now unfortunately a baseline for many adults. Half the country make 30k or so a year or less, which is about twice as much as the min wage nationally, which means half the country makes about 11$ an hour or less. It is a race to the bottom with inflation in health care costs, housing, food, etc... yet not much real life growth in income. This causes a cycle that will only continue to weaken the lower-income earners of the country.
No shit
15 should be the baseline today but instead we'll maybe get 12 in a few years and watch as that doesn't get increased for decades.
15 should be the baseline today but instead we'll maybe get 12 in a few years and watch as that doesn't get increased for decades.
"You always -----------need-------- minimum wage workers"
But by the way let's make sure they can't afford to live.
Fuck right off into the sun.
Cities need to be affordable for the working class to live in.
Build more housing and not just ultra wealthy condos. Fucking NIMBYs are the real scourge of the working class.
I mean people should make more money as well but we have to get the cost of living lower as well and more apartments in urban cores is the key.
Build more housing and not just ultra wealthy condos. Fucking NIMBYs are the real scourge of the working class.
I mean people should make more money as well but we have to get the cost of living lower as well and more apartments in urban cores is the key.
Yep and that means more competition for the existing minimum wage jobs. Things are going to get a lot uglier before we eventually (hopefully) have some sort of guaranteed income system in the future.
I live in Vancouver and make 6 figures. We are currently going to be out of our current place soon and need to move. For a two bedroom you are looking at 2250 to 2500 give or take on that. For someone with low six figures, that is pretty much 50% of takehome pay on rent.
Rent is so high I am considering buying a one bedroom and having my family of 4 live in that if we become smart with the space. That 2250 to 2500 ain't getting you that fancy either. Lots of basement suites.
I don't know how families can do it. Even going out further ain't getting you much. Even in Squamish, you are going to be hard pressed to find a place to buy that is less than 450,000 outside of trailers.
Rent is so high I am considering buying a one bedroom and having my family of 4 live in that if we become smart with the space. That 2250 to 2500 ain't getting you that fancy either. Lots of basement suites.
I don't know how families can do it. Even going out further ain't getting you much. Even in Squamish, you are going to be hard pressed to find a place to buy that is less than 450,000 outside of trailers.
We need these people around but not so much that they should be paid according to their social need. It's better if we paid them as little as possible despite being crucial to the running of society unlike any number of dead end tech startups making useless shit who can afford to have an office there because of venture capital.
Lmaaaaaaaaao
Lmaaaaaaaaao
Are you the person who posted they wanted to move out to California on a whim? How did that turn out? Sorry if I mistook you for someone else.
It's tough but so far I do find sometime for myself, I work most of the time. I got lucky because I first started to live in dorm like setting for $700 a month in Hollywood but I was tired of that, two months later.
I found a studio in Downtown for $1,100 with all utilities included and it's all renovated.
The street isn't the nicest but it's pretty quiet, so I got lucky.
School is going to start back up next month, so that should get me focused once more.
Now I have to find a way to step up my game to find a job in film production and things could start looking good, I work as a security guard at the moment.
Just get the government to subsidize their party with social welfare programs, that way businesses save money! Because isn't that the most important thing? That business keep costs down so that the wealth can *checks notes* trickle down to everyone?
Feel like I've been reading this same kind of report for a couple of decades now...so we gonna do something finally or...nah....
50% of pre tax income on rent is not affordable. The threshold of affordable in this article is 30%
It's not about the downtown core, I think you're reading it wrong -
In short, minimum wage earner can't afford to buy a house in most neighborhoods surveyed.
30% is a fantasy number. I've never paid that little for housing.
I was considering post-tax btw. A little over 2 grand in Alberta for full time.
That's the kind of situation my family has been in. We moved into our current place 4 years ago, and since then rent in Toronto has exploded. We have a shitty fucking ass garbage landlord who resents that we're still living here because he could charge like $800 more in rent to new tenants, so he refuses to fix anything and fills up the backyard with his own stuff. He's got 3 cars back there now, taking up most of the yard.
We're moving into a brand new place next week. The rent is lower, but it's also much smaller. We all can't wait to never see that white trash piece of shit ever again.
I've seen this advice from several budgeting sources, but I have had one question for the longest time: Is this net income or gross income?
To use myself as an example, (U.S. Taxpayer: Single, with no allowances) my gross income monthly is ~$4,100. My net income however is ~$2,800.
30% of my GI is $1200, 30% of my NI is $840.
That's quite a disparity. I find it hard to believe that financial experts would recommend going by gross income knowing that taxes must come out first, but seeing that they are calculating by hourly wages, there is no way this can be based on anything other than gross income.
Which paints an even bleaker picture once you factor in taxes, pre-tax retirement savings, health care contributions, etc.
I've personally noticed this in my own calculations for renting. I live with my parents in a nice community 30 miles outside of Atlanta. In the small town of Villa Rica, 1 bedroom apartments are all above $1,000. 1000/2800 = 36% of net income. Things in Douglasville, a few miles west are a bit better (more apartments around $900/month) but still ... finding affordable housing is becoming problematic.
I'm not sure whats more unlikely, someone being able to pay rent working minimum wage, or having a minimum wage job that allows you to actually get 40 hrs a week in the first place. Every time I see a report like this, all I see is that its getting worse while wages are going fucking nowhere.
Of course it's a fantasy number, that's the point of the article. Nobody can afford to live.
The lower your income, the greater percentage of you income fixed expenses cost. Eg $100/month for a bus pass so your rent needs to be a smaller percentage of your income to survive.
The more money you make, the higher percentage of it you can spend on rent.
Yeah, that was Toronto like 20 years ago. You're paying 2500 a month minimum for that now.
Count your blessings 😒
God I feel bad "hoping" for a recession and hoping it can help topple some of these insane prices. :/
I hope we can see change soon, but I feel that's contingent on slow government action or...i dunno, getting people to stop liking money.
Greed ruins everything.
I hope we can see change soon, but I feel that's contingent on slow government action or...i dunno, getting people to stop liking money.
Greed ruins everything.
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This isn't just in population centers. When I still lived in my home state of WV, my partner and I could hardly keep up with necessities in a shitty one-bedroom in Morgantown (which isn't even all that big) while working min wage jobs.
The minimum wage needs to be at least $15 (it needs to be more in a lot of places).
The minimum wage needs to be at least $15 (it needs to be more in a lot of places).
Well yeah. One person living in a two bedroom apartment in a city core is expecting a bit much. It's more likely that 2 couples will be living in a two bedroom apartment.
If minimum wage is all you can get, then shared accommodation is probably going to be a requirement in almost every city. It's always been that way.