It's Pride Month - how did E3 do on LGBT+ representation?

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
1,783
I feel like the whole pride month thing is very US centric. E3 is an international event. We have our pride parades, but I haven't seen anything on this month specifically. Like black history month etc. I think it's fairer to judge the industry throughout the year, in stead of this one month.
 

Triscuitable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,850
There are so many angles here, I cannot even describe how offensive and possibly progressive this is. Like, on one hand, in cyberpunk, the concept of free exploration of gender is common and seen as a normal thing to the point that marketing advertises on it. On the other hand... linking gender to sex chromosomes, advertising products with mixing and matching them, and having a feminine presenting person with an erect penis underneath their outfit in the ad is just... no. Just no.
The worst part is, given CDPR's prior history with handling sensitive subjects like this, there's very little chance this was intended to be anything other than a shallow joke about a transwoman.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
6,792
I think the intent of this thread isn't to discuss how many depictions of LGBT+ characters there were, but rather how the game industry seems to be handling the issues. Cases like CDPR making what seems at best a tasteless fictional ad in their own game is the kind of thing that might reflect the game industry's ignorance about LGBT+ issues, or even argued transphobia. So it's not just about what characters are gay or trans, but how the game industry as a whole relates to LGBT+.
Oh, I see your point. Thanks for clarifying. You're right. I'm sorry if I came off as dismissive.

...God I looked at that ad for 5 minutes trying to figure out what was wrong because my stupid brain kept interpreting the ad as "SRS can be done with sodas now"

There are so many angles here, I cannot even describe how offensive and possibly progressive this is. Like, on one hand, in cyberpunk, the concept of free exploration of gender is common and seen as a normal thing to the point that marketing advertises on it. On the other hand... linking gender to sex chromosomes, advertising products with mixing and matching them, and having a feminine presenting person with an erect penis underneath their outfit in the ad is just... no. Just no.
I'll admit I still want to read it as a collapse of gender norms, like the messaging being something along the lines of "Be a woman with a dick, who cares", but I get that this probably doesn't deserve such a charitable reading given CDPR's track record (and the fact that a corporation probably shouldn't be making the point to sell soft drinks, anyway). How trans people read it matters far more anyways.
 
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Razmos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,683
There are so many angles here, I cannot even describe how offensive and possibly progressive this is. Like, on one hand, in cyberpunk, the concept of free exploration of gender is common and seen as a normal thing to the point that marketing advertises on it. On the other hand... linking gender to sex chromosomes, advertising products with mixing and matching them, and having a feminine presenting person with an erect penis underneath their outfit in the ad is just... no. Just no.
That's the thing, people will defend this ad as being a cyberpunk future where gender is more fluid, so bold and fitting!
Except the company has made transphobic remarks and only has binary genders in their game which features transhumanism and body modification (apparently)
 

weekev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,545
I think when you look at the CD Project Red project being one of the highlights of the show and then look at their record of transphobic behaviour it is clear the industry has a fucking far way to go.

There wasnt much representation in the trailers but then id also argue that there wasn't much representation of Cis gendered hetero relationships in the trailers either.

There are definitely opportunities with games like Watch Dogs 3 given the choice of characters in the roster to improve representation though.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,349
Well, CDPR did a... a thing, courtesy of Nvidia.




Dunno if this one is going to blow up in their faces, but some people seem decidedly unhappy.
Welp, that does it.

I wont support this company, even if they had Keanu Reeves deliever the game in person at my house.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
662
All the chracaters in Fire Emblem: Three Houses could be bi! At least 4 will be this time! I gotta good feeling. :)
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
2,637
Thailand
So far LGBT+ Main Character on AAA Game is just Bi (you can choose your lover) or Lesbian (straight male fantasy)

Other It's just side/party member character or It's get revealed on other media that they're LGBT+ but not on the main game story (You will not know if not look into it.)

Welp, that does it.

I wont support this company, even if they had Keanu Reeves deliever the game in person at my house.
Plot Twist he brings The Pencil too !!!
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,311
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
There are so many angles here, I cannot even describe how offensive and possibly progressive this is. Like, on one hand, in cyberpunk, the concept of free exploration of gender is common and seen as a normal thing to the point that marketing advertises on it. On the other hand... linking gender to sex chromosomes, advertising products with mixing and matching them, and having a feminine presenting person with an erect penis underneath their outfit in the ad is just... no. Just no.
Don't forget the typographical flourish of capitalising the M in "ChroManticore", stressing the word "man" in the name. Makes me suspect that it's supposed to be a joke.
 

Raxus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,055
I am part of the lgbt community and I did not feel seen
It is a shame after a trend of improving female and lgbtq+ characters this year we got next to nothing announced at e3.

Heck 2 games with good representation were announced in advance. Borderlands 3 and Apex Legends. I hope the final breakdown is better at the end of e3.

The "joke" in Cyberpunk 2077 is proof that even today we need positive exposure to the lgbt+ crowd because that joke does not fly in 2019 let alone 2077.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,026
Everything was CGI so there was barely any representation across the board, much less for LGBT+ since it's not visually distinctive.

Last year was better.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,950
UK
Don't forget the typographical flourish of capitalising the M in "ChroManticore", stressing the word "man" in the name. Makes me suspect that it's supposed to be a joke.
It's a blatant portmaneue of chromosome and manticore; the beast made up of different parts of other creatures bodies. It's obvious enough without having the "Mix it up" copy and clearly visible erection.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,950
UK
The destiny 2 stream had a dev wearing a pride badge, that was about it...
It is a nice pin, I'm waiting for mine to arrive:

All profits from sales of Bungie's Pride Pin benefit the It Gets Better Project, which inspires people across the globe to share their stories and remind the next generation of LGBTQ+ youth that hope is out there, and it will get better.

 

Antiax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
797
The worst part is, given CDPR's prior history with handling sensitive subjects like this, there's very little chance this was intended to be anything other than a shallow joke about a transwoman.
This is logical fallacy.

I'm pretty sure this ad was made by one of their employees who are LGBT (or at least consulted). As far as I know they handle it that way.

A couple of days ago there was pride parade in Warsaw and a lot of CDPR employees took part in it.

 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,950
UK
This is logical fallacy.
I'm pretty sure this ad was made by one of their employees who are LGBT (or at least consulted). As far as I know they handle it that way.
A couple of days ago there was pride parade in Warsaw and a lot of CDPR employees took part in it.
That's awesome, thank you for sharing! What makes you so sure that the person that created the artwork are LGBTQ+?

I think most of the concern comes behind the management and how there's been very little dialogue between the CDP Group and the LGBTQ+ community in the wake of the transphobic tweets, non-apology and no apology. You're right that when cast with a stark light there's picking of a logical fallacy but really it's just phrasing.

They've given very little incentive for people to give them the benefit of the doubt with these issues, yet a number to the adverse, casting doubt whether they're able to handle these topics with the nuance they require. They are more than aware of that as well, they're the one that have received the reaction. So when the next thing that crops up is that advert, it's really not surprising for people to be suspect of its intent. This isn't following in the wake of a well fleshed out trans or non-binary character, this is coming off the back of transphobic comments and a lack of willingness in mending that bridge.

I don't feel the onus is on the community to give any breathing room to them on problematic or potentially-problematic content. Rather it's them that should be writing blog posts about their character development and how they're addressing gender in the Cyberpunk landscape, knowing all too well that they've handled those topics poorly in the past.
 

Triscuitable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,850
This is logical fallacy.

I'm pretty sure this ad was made by one of their employees who are LGBT (or at least consulted). As far as I know they handle it that way.

A couple of days ago there was pride parade in Warsaw and a lot of CDPR employees took part in it.

Oh, yeah, that makes everything better. All past prejudice against queer people is forgiven, even that which they didn’t apologize for, since some folks from an enormous studio went to pride.
 

Rotobit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,699
Banjo and Kazooie got into Smash with pro-trans rights Grant Kirkhope composing a new remix for them.
I really have to hope Sugiyama is contributing nothing new to Smash so we get a net positive out of the newcomers. It's a little funny in a bleak sort of way when the two new composers are on completely polar opposite sides when it comes to LGBT support.

But yeah outside of that there was very little. Night in the Woods is getting a physical edition?

Hopefully MUA3 and Avengers add some LGBT characters.
 

JoyFreak

Banned
Apr 10, 2019
101
UK
What from I watched/kept in touch with, I'm not sure if there were any LGBT+ representations. Hopefully, if there was one, it was a natural inclusion and not some forced thing to try and get some brownie points. Gaming Forums
 
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mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,734
I think I saw mention that Animal Crossing has now separated gender entirely from the hairstyle/features selection

Hopefully MUA3 and Avengers add some LGBT characters.
I have to admit I'm ignorant on this front; who's notable in comics who'd fit the bill?

Edit: Oh, Flatman! I'd forgotten him. The GLA are perhaps too deep a cut for MUA, though (Squirrel Girl and Deadpool aside, of course)
 

Rotobit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,699
I have to admit I'm ignorant on this front; who's notable in comics who'd fit the bill?

Edit: Oh, Flatman! I'd forgotten him. The GLA are perhaps too deep a cut for MUA, though (Squirrel Girl and Deadpool aside, of course)
There's Wiccan & Hulkling, but they're pretty minor too (though they were in Lego Marvel 2).

The most likely character that I can think of is Iceman and would that be a good thing? I haven't read comics seriously since around the time that happened due to disinterest, have opinions changed on that?
Iceman is definitely the most likely, I think they made it so old Ice Man came to terms with it too? The initial reveal was really dumb but I think they got better about it.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,714
Canada
I feel like the whole pride month thing is very US centric. E3 is an international event. We have our pride parades, but I haven't seen anything on this month specifically. Like black history month etc. I think it's fairer to judge the industry throughout the year, in stead of this one month.
E3 is in the US, a lot of the companies are in the US... While, yes not all of them, it would be nice to see some of the US based companies or even international companies acknowledge it more than Major Nelson wearing a Xbox Pride pin.

also June is Pride Month in Canada as well. and I'm sure there are other countries that have this as well.