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Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
I firmly believe you can only give a subject justice if you as a creator are familiar with it on a very personal level since at the core of game making is self expression of developers. So I would rather see more content made by queer game developers and give them the spotlight.
Of course. We need to push for more diverse content by diverse devs. If people are up in arms about X game not having decent queer content, then the studio should hire more queer devs to handle that part of the game.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
"Voting with your wallet" doesn't work. It should be well know at this point.

It does work which is why your assumption is of what is known is misguided.

Ask Reebok how they felt about them boycotts.

The problem is that they work infrequently.

A small group of people need the perfect storm of social connections, moderate wealth, and organizational intelligence to make these boycotts work.

Anyway trying to do social media campaign like the ice bucket challenge would be my preference.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
I support you and any other people who are victims IRL (basically any non white male with male toxicity).

Gaming is mostly an industry. As such, it follows the mentality / culture of where it is make.
Japan mentality / culture is clearly against queer but mostly against queer men.

My point is, you have better chance to have change in gaming by changing IRL mentality. Saddly, you have little chance to change Japan mentality about this matter or the big list of problem they have ...
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,972
It does work which is why your assumption is of what is known is misguided.

Ask Reebok how they felt about them boycotts.

The problem is that they work infrequently.

A small group of people need the perfect storm of social connections, moderate wealth, and organizational intelligence to make these boycotts work.

Anyway trying to do social media campaign like the ice bucket challenge would be my preference.
It can work when fighting for commonly accepted fights such as against child labor. But then again it could be described as a matter of market adjustment (such as after being exposed for what most of the population see as shitty practices).

When you wanna fight more vanguard battles, it's much, much harder to make it work.

Even on this very forum, which is arguably one of the most progressive places, especially in the video game field, you'll get a bunch of dismissals when discussing representation issues.
 
OP
OP
Hours Left

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,401
I'm happy to see so many people taking this in the spirit it was meant.

Let's keep it up y'all.
 

Bobcat Fancy

Member
Jul 21, 2019
192
I already do support it, though I don't support "Token gays". When I say this I mean they can't just be in the game just to tick the boxes of the gay character being in there. The character must be a part of the story, must serve a part of the narrative and structure, not just a throwaway.

More gay characters with purpose please, make sure they're on equal footing with the other characters, some more positive stories or stories that don't just dwell too far on their sexuality if it is unnecessary.

Bi representation is fine also, but once again make sure they aren't throwaway or 2 dimensional.
I mean, lots of types of characters are in games just to tick boxes. There's, by default, often a main boy (sometimes a handsome space marine) and a female love interest. Do these need to be justified? My understanding is FE used to have more male than female characters but equalized the numbers more for the purposes of romance. I'm sure these romances are of variable quality and importance but I just want... the same thing straight gamers never have to worry about getting.

In a cast as large as FE3H's, lots of characters are going to be, or strike some, as two-dimensional but people are going to care about them regardless. I don't begrudge straight people their horny dating-sim lite elements in games, I just wish I could participate in the fun, too. Loved Stardew Valley, where everyone was bi. It made that game more fun and accessible to me, and was one of many highly unrealistic elements crafted to give players a good time. Also Dragon Age II, but I don't think four-five bisexuals being friends in a big city is so implausible, really.
 

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,392
Mod edit: let's not bring up off-site drama
It's half an anti-queer thing and half a Resetera thing. People outside this site don't think very kindly of it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Feb 24, 2018
5,226
What did the one tweet that isn't available any more say?

Also besides the NeoGaf not liking ResetERA, why don't other game sites not like ERA?
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,863
What did the one tweet that isn't available any more say?

Also besides the NeoGaf not liking ResetERA, why don't other game sites not like ERA?

ERA has actual moderation and doesn't tolerate the alt-right bigotry that is basically foundational to the rest of the gaming community. Also, a lot of journos, devs and insiders hang out here and that makes some folks envious.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,258
I already do support it, though I don't support "Token gays". When I say this I mean they can't just be in the game just to tick the boxes of the gay character being in there. The character must be a part of the story, must serve a part of the narrative and structure, not just a throwaway.

More gay characters with purpose please, make sure they're on equal footing with the other characters, some more positive stories or stories that don't just dwell too far on their sexuality if it is unnecessary.

Bi representation is fine also, but once again make sure they aren't throwaway or 2 dimensional.

I mean, sure, but like Bobcat Fancy said, this is pretty optimistic view of how games and their stories are designed - especially in JRPGs (which I note because that's my area of interest + they tend to focus more heavily on having ensemble casts), you'll notice how often they introduce characters into the party, only for those characters to basically disappear into the background before long. Games like Persona 5, which are praised for being character driven, give party members their own narrative dungeon arc, and then they'll have fuck all to do with the rest of the game's narrative, aside from occasionally repeating proper nouns back as a question.

As an aside, no one ever complains about "token straights" or "token cis" ...
 

Raspyberry

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,237
I miss fire emblem not having a focus on relationships. I just don't like dating Sims and would be cool with the removal of this feature in the future. I hope in the future they have even less of a focus on this for all people and just focus on gameplay like the older games.

Just my 2 cents. Since this game still sorta has that they could do it better if dating sim stuff is included in the future. If a % of the population identifies as a certain sexuality it's pretty fair to include that % in characters that should be able to be romanced. With that said not every character should be straight, gay or bi though as just like people all people have their own sexuality. Just because someone thinks someone is cute doesn't mean they should have an option to date them if they are straight or queer. If that character identifies as queer then the straight character wouldn't have a chance or vice versa.

Good luck op.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,258
not to be part of the hivemind but lgbt people, like, actually exist in the real world and deserve to be treated and represented like actual human beings in media
 

Bobcat Fancy

Member
Jul 21, 2019
192
I miss fire emblem not having a focus on relationships. I just don't like dating Sims and would be cool with the removal of this feature in the future. I hope in the future they have even less of a focus on this for all people and just focus on gameplay like the older games.

Just my 2 cents. Since this game still sorta has that they could do it better if dating sim stuff is included in the future. If a % of the population identifies as a certain sexuality it's pretty fair to include that % in characters that should be able to be romanced. With that said not every character should be straight, gay or bi though as just like people all people have their own sexuality. Just because someone thinks someone is cute doesn't mean they should have an option to date them if they are straight or queer. If that character identifies as queer then the straight character wouldn't have a chance or vice versa.

Good luck op.
In games with light dating sim elements like Fire Emblem, Harvest Moon, Stardew Valley, straight people have been presented with a highly unrealistic but fun opportunity to pick from a diverse cast of characters to romance and never have to worry their chosen romanceable partner won't swing their way. Only in Stardew Valley have queer people really had the same opportunity. (bonus - there was slight differentiation between same- and different-gender romances - not the case in FE3H's one MLM romance anyway) I don't see the harm in extending that implausible but fun mechanic to queer people.

In games without player inserts, well, if three to five percent of AAA games starred queer main characters that'd be great but I know they don't. Straight people are over represented there and will be for the foreseeable future.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
As an aside, no one ever complains about "token straights" or "token cis" ...

I should have been more specific when I wrote this. There shouldn't just be one to fill a spot and be the "gay guy". It should be they are X character, here are their traits, loves, desires, goals, they just happen to be gay. It is more of a matter of what is important. Being gay should just be normalised rather than dwelled upon and not overly stereotyped either.

Believe me when I say I am not trying to be negative or anything, more so just wanting characters who are in the game , have a point to the plot etc and their sexual orientation is just there and normal.

Then again, I suppose you're right that straight/cis stuff gets put in for the sake of it a lot of the time,but even I roll my eyes when characters who are straight have to over exaggerate their existence/orientation.I just can't wait for the day when gay characters can be in a game and they just live in the story and are accepted as both a person and their sexual orientation.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
I mean, lots of types of characters are in games just to tick boxes. There's, by default, often a main boy (sometimes a handsome space marine) and a female love interest. Do these need to be justified? My understanding is FE used to have more male than female characters but equalized the numbers more for the purposes of romance. I'm sure these romances are of variable quality and importance but I just want... the same thing straight gamers never have to worry about getting.

You pretty much nailed what I mean, gay characters should just exist without worry or feeling like they're not a part of the bigger picture. Just let there be gay people in the world. They exist, make it the norm.

Never played Stardew Valley, but making everyone Bi is a cool idea, so long as the responses are natural in the relationships.
 

MegaBeefBowl

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,890
I'm totally on board. Representation matters and anyone who doesn't think so is just ignoring the huge swath of scientific opinion coming to the consensus that it does.

I do wonder how much influence we have over Japanese developed games, where this seems to be the worst? NA development still isn't there, but you can see steps towards the right direction. Japan developed games get their fair share of criticism but again and again it's ignored in favor of horrible shit like Persona 5. It is super easy to feel powerless in that arena. I do think the "Japan is gonna Japan" defense/excuse to be inadequate for me, but I am truly at a loss on how to be effective in fixing it.
 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Considering that this thread has become about off-site drama as opposed to the actual topic, it has been locked.
 
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