Excuse me while my eyes roll so hard they snap the muscle tendons holding them in their sockets and plop onto the floor.
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I've Never Played a CRPG - Where Do I Start?
- Thread starter Nbz
- Start date
Excuse me while my eyes roll so hard they snap the muscle tendons holding them in their sockets and plop onto the floor.
+1 for this. Fallout 3 and 4 are so far removed from the original games that it's depressing.
I'd actually be tempted to start with Fallout 2, 1 has dated a lot more. Then visit 1 at a later date.
I actually think Knights of the Old Republic is a really good entry point. It was always intended to be a CRPG for a console audience that might never have played one before, and it strikes a pretty decent balance between depth and accessibility.
Shadowrun Dragonfall would be a good start for you i believe, for the reasons others have written before :) I am just joining my voice to theirs. It was also one of the few which had a satisfying ending for my tastes.
(removed the screenshot... better to discover first by yourself)
(removed the screenshot... better to discover first by yourself)
First one is pretty much a KOTOR sequel.
Sure, they downplayed the RPG and upplayed the shooty bits for the sequels, but dunno man, first one seems like a good gateway drug.
I'd recommend that yes, start with Divinity: OS2.
It's a great game and since it's new it doesn't feel outdated or to overly complicated. You might want to put it on easy though since you are new to the genre and the combat can be a little hard (starting out especially).
It's a great game and since it's new it doesn't feel outdated or to overly complicated. You might want to put it on easy though since you are new to the genre and the combat can be a little hard (starting out especially).
Pretty much. The only thing holding it back is that it's a bit on the old side so it doesn't have some of the design innovations that more modern CRPGs have.
The only thing that Mass Effect really kept from KOTOR is the good-evil scale. Just about everything else is different.
I agree that Dragon Age is a good place to start because it is a marriage between crpg and modern, fast-paced RPGs.
If you want more modern, you can continue with the likes of Mass Effect. If you want more old school hardcore Style, then you can move into the direction of pillars of Eternity
This doesn't make any sense to me.
If you acknowledge yourself the roughness of really old CRPGs, then why even bother with them for a new gamer of today??
Quite frankly I would only recommend newer generation games to the OP.
Not every new gamer needs to force themselves to play games from the 90s or early 2000s. That's not "necessary" for every person.
I've started dabbling in cRPG's over the past year and half or so, so I'm a cRPG newbie. I've tried Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Dragonfall, and the first Divinity. I couldn't get into Wasteland 2 at all. Partially because of me being over the brown, washed out post-apocalyptic setting and partly because it was kind of boring. I've heard it starts slow but it wasn't doing enough to keep me playing and dropped it after ten hours or so. Dragonfall seems cool. Unfortunately my laptop crapped out on me during the time I was playing and I haven't gone back. From the parts I did play it seemed really solid and not overly complicated and would probably be a good entry point. Divinity was tough in the beginning. There's not a lot going in the first few hours and the difficulty is no joke. I was getting killed quite frequently and I almost stopped playing since I felt under leveled and unprepared with no good place to learn the ropes. But! I'm glad I stuck with it because I ended up loving it once I get through the initial hurdles. The combat is friggin' great once you start accumulating party members and understand how all of the systems interact with each other. The game has an inverse difficulty curve. It starts out very tough and by the end becomes a bit too easy. It's probably my biggest complaint with the game and I hope they fixed that in the sequel. But yea, it's big and beautiful and a ton of fun. Again, there is a bit of a learning curve in the beginning so it might not be the absolute best for newcomers but if you're willing to put up with a little hardship the payoff is definitely worth it.
I'm confused here. I was confused with the JRPG debate again I am at odds.
I swore CRPG were essentially D&D based top down games like Baldurs gate and Planescape.
How do KotOR and Mass effect fit CRPG?
I swore CRPG were essentially D&D based top down games like Baldurs gate and Planescape.
How do KotOR and Mass effect fit CRPG?
KOTOR literally runs on a pared-down version of Dungeons & Dragons 3. If you were to compare it mechanically to Neverwinter Nights, you'll find a lot of similarities because they're built on the same ruleset. Mass Effect doesn't feel anything like that, and it's not a CRPG.
By CRPG the OP meant Computer RPG not Crap RPG.
I keed I keed
or do i?
On topic: I'm not new to the genre, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt, but I thought Divinity Original Sin 2 did a great job introducing me to the basics. I say go for it.
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Because they're classics of the genre and fantastic games in spite of their rough edges? Video games aren't "necessary" full stop, but I'm recommending them to the OP because they'll enjoy them, not because he needs a history lesson.
WARNING: DO NOT PLAY PLANESCAPE : TORMENT FIRST. IT WILL RUIN EVERY OTHER RPG IN TERMS OF PLOT QUALITY.
I've never played it, but is the first Original Sin really that straightforward to anyone who hasn't played any CRPGs?
It's one thing to play these games when they were still new, but it's quite another when you've never played this kind of game before, and you're used to far more streamlined experiences. In the latter case, overly rough games are more likely to turn away new players than they are going to make new fans.
I'm not sure I'd say Dragonfall is a good intro. It's a great game but is missing many of the cRPG elements that really appeal to me. It's a great point to start from if you just want an interesting story and characters though.
I'd echo Dragon Age Origins (the PC version can be sort of toggled between traditional console-ish mode and PC KBAM mode IIRC) and the Divinity OS games as good modern adaptations that still have a decent amount of complexity but are also relatively newbie friendly.
After those two I'd probably recommend Tyranny, which is in the Real Time With Pause genre like Dragon Age, but a bit more hardcore. It's short and has a pretty unique concept and isn't too combat heavy, and so I think acts like a good intro into the more "typical" CRPG.
I'd echo Dragon Age Origins (the PC version can be sort of toggled between traditional console-ish mode and PC KBAM mode IIRC) and the Divinity OS games as good modern adaptations that still have a decent amount of complexity but are also relatively newbie friendly.
After those two I'd probably recommend Tyranny, which is in the Real Time With Pause genre like Dragon Age, but a bit more hardcore. It's short and has a pretty unique concept and isn't too combat heavy, and so I think acts like a good intro into the more "typical" CRPG.
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Divinity's battle system is relatively easy to learn compared to a lot of CRPGs. It's turn based and AP based (which a decent amount of console games have used) with little in game resource management (no mana pools, abilities are on cooldowns) and a lot of the system's interactions are based on common sense like something wet takes extra damage from a lightning bolt. It also helps that combat is extremely fun.
There are elements a newbie might be overwhelmed by, like the sheer amount of shit you can pick up and the open ended nature of the questing and figuring out a direction about where to go (particularly where to buy new spells is poorly explained in the first game), but to me the hardest thing to get around for these types of games are the gameplay systems, which Divinity keeps straightforward and compelling.
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I've also just recently gotten into the genre after avoiding it all these years. So far I've done:
XCOM2: War of the Chosen: Good story, great voice acting, fantastic combat, tons of a content and overall my favourite thus far.
Pillars of Eternity: Good story, great voice acting, OK combat but filled with technical issues (low frame rate, audio issues, lots of load screens, loot delay after combat etc. It's a Unity engine game so yeah)
Divinity Original Sins 2: Great story, good visuals, very in depth combat system but once again it has some performance issues, mostly low frame rate in combat (actually seems to be a fairly common issue with the genre)
Wasteland 2: I was enjoying it until I hit a progress halting bug so I just uninstalled it in rage. I may go back to it one day.
Invisible Inc: Does this count? Interesting story, fantastic voice acting, solid gameplay and a unique and pleasant art style.
I'm currently playing Shadowrun: Dragonfall and enjoying it a lot, the combat is very much like XCOM2 although it's quite slow, I wish you could increase the speed of it, and I really wish you could see your HP in numerical values. Other than that it has a great story, interesting characters and a fantastic setting. One massive gripe is it's 100% text, no voice acting at all which is a shame. I also have Shadowrun: Hong Kong in my library, I got both of them for pennies.
XCOM2: War of the Chosen: Good story, great voice acting, fantastic combat, tons of a content and overall my favourite thus far.
Pillars of Eternity: Good story, great voice acting, OK combat but filled with technical issues (low frame rate, audio issues, lots of load screens, loot delay after combat etc. It's a Unity engine game so yeah)
Divinity Original Sins 2: Great story, good visuals, very in depth combat system but once again it has some performance issues, mostly low frame rate in combat (actually seems to be a fairly common issue with the genre)
Wasteland 2: I was enjoying it until I hit a progress halting bug so I just uninstalled it in rage. I may go back to it one day.
Invisible Inc: Does this count? Interesting story, fantastic voice acting, solid gameplay and a unique and pleasant art style.
I'm currently playing Shadowrun: Dragonfall and enjoying it a lot, the combat is very much like XCOM2 although it's quite slow, I wish you could increase the speed of it, and I really wish you could see your HP in numerical values. Other than that it has a great story, interesting characters and a fantastic setting. One massive gripe is it's 100% text, no voice acting at all which is a shame. I also have Shadowrun: Hong Kong in my library, I got both of them for pennies.
Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2
Dragon Age Origins
Pillars of Eternity
I think that would be a very good progression and introduction to the world of real time with pause cRPGs.
Divinity Original Sin 2 is likely the best to get into turned based cRPGs and then you should play Fallout 1 & 2 asap as they're the best.
Dragon Age Origins
Pillars of Eternity
I think that would be a very good progression and introduction to the world of real time with pause cRPGs.
Divinity Original Sin 2 is likely the best to get into turned based cRPGs and then you should play Fallout 1 & 2 asap as they're the best.
Shameful lack of Legend of Grimrock II in this recommendation list.
A real-time dungeon-crawler where combat and puzzles can happen in the same place (read: Telefragging)
Meticulous level design.
Slick character-building.
Abso-bonking-lutely stuffed to the gills with secrets, traps, bosses, riddles, puzzles, loot, and ambience.
2014's Secret Best Game.
Nearly flawless.
And it's surprisingly quick to "get". This is the character creation panel at start; nothing too crazy:
We're wise to this unhelpfulness 'round these here parts. We'd KINDA like to sell some CRPGs to people if you'd be so kind. hint hint.
I mean, well, yeah. But it is a bucketlist thing!
A real-time dungeon-crawler where combat and puzzles can happen in the same place (read: Telefragging)
Meticulous level design.
Slick character-building.
Abso-bonking-lutely stuffed to the gills with secrets, traps, bosses, riddles, puzzles, loot, and ambience.
2014's Secret Best Game.
Nearly flawless.
And it's surprisingly quick to "get". This is the character creation panel at start; nothing too crazy:
We're wise to this unhelpfulness 'round these here parts. We'd KINDA like to sell some CRPGs to people if you'd be so kind. hint hint.
I mean, well, yeah. But it is a bucketlist thing!
Seems like it was a good time to make this thread! Just picked it up, thanks for the heads up on this sale!
As much as I love the hell out of these games, OP shouldn't start with these, I'll state that for the same reason that a child's first game shouldn't be SMB that these are a relic of the times. Not that they aren't worthy. For sure many surpass modern titles. But these titles are to be explored when the OP feels comfortable enough with the genre, and willing to trade flash for more substantial gameplay (especially Star Trail).
For my money, as many have said, start with Shadowrun: Dragonfall.
I think a good way to narrow your choices is to first decide what type of combat you prefer first.
The two main styles are Strategy CRP in which each character (player and enemy) take turns to move around the battlefield and makes attacks. This is slower paced but is usually less forgiving on mistakes.
Examples: Divinity Original Sin 2
Planescape Torment
Wasteland 2
Fallout 1 and 2
The second style is Real Time With Pause, you characters make attacks in real time, but you have the ability to pause to issue multiple commands at once. It can be difficult to understand what's happening at first until you're used to it, but this is my favourite style.
Examples:
KotoR 1 & 2
The Neverwinter nights series
Pillars of eternity
Tyranny
I'd recommend any of the above (planescape is pretty janky compared to newer offerings though).
I will give an honorable mention for a game that I feel is close to crpg, but is a bit more hybrid since it's combat is more reliant on player skill than character stats: jade empire still has a ton of the hallmarks of a crpg but with combat that's more easily understandable from the start, and could be a good way to baby step into the genre.
The two main styles are Strategy CRP in which each character (player and enemy) take turns to move around the battlefield and makes attacks. This is slower paced but is usually less forgiving on mistakes.
Examples: Divinity Original Sin 2
Planescape Torment
Wasteland 2
Fallout 1 and 2
The second style is Real Time With Pause, you characters make attacks in real time, but you have the ability to pause to issue multiple commands at once. It can be difficult to understand what's happening at first until you're used to it, but this is my favourite style.
Examples:
KotoR 1 & 2
The Neverwinter nights series
Pillars of eternity
Tyranny
I'd recommend any of the above (planescape is pretty janky compared to newer offerings though).
I will give an honorable mention for a game that I feel is close to crpg, but is a bit more hybrid since it's combat is more reliant on player skill than character stats: jade empire still has a ton of the hallmarks of a crpg but with combat that's more easily understandable from the start, and could be a good way to baby step into the genre.
Probably Shadowrun Dragonfall for turnbased and Dragon Age 1 for rtwp. After that jump to Divinity OS2 and Pillars of Eternity.
You da real mvp of this thread .
I'd agree with this or Dragon Age 1. Loves that game.
but how do you know every young new gamer of today would enjoy those?
There's never a guarantee, but their flaws (primarily their age/obtusness) doesn't outweigh the stuff that's good about them.
Not a rpg at all let alone a crpg, but you knew that already I'm sure.
I don't know a lot about CRPGs but I'm gonna warn you now about DOS 2. Be ready for a time commitment. Battles start to take an hour or more each, not counting losses, even in act 1. Love the game, but it's something people should really know before they buy it.
I can't say I agree with this, I can't think of a single battle so far that's taken 1 hour, let alone multiple. I haven't beaten the game yet though so maybe you mean late game?
Pretty much every battle in the later half of Act 1, one battle I lost which lead to a 2 hour fight total. I was playing on the normal difficulty. They were originally like, 15-20 minutes, but they just ramped up really quickly.
Fair enough, I imagine it would also depend on if you go lone wolf Strat or not and the difficulty setting?
Divinity Original Sin 2 is a fine way to start, but be prepared for a real challenge.
If you are looking for a softer start dragon age origins is a great option.
While not a traditional crpg the witcher 3 is an absolute masterpiece that should be played by all.
If you are looking for a softer start dragon age origins is a great option.
While not a traditional crpg the witcher 3 is an absolute masterpiece that should be played by all.
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Everyone recommending Divinity Original Sin 2 is setting OP up for disappointment. Divinity Original Sin 1/2 are the future of cRPGs and anything else will feel like a slog. This might not be a problem for OP but hell, I've heard people say they can't play Original Sin after playing Original Sin 2 first. Imagine those people picking up a game like Baldur's Gate after this.
I feel that a lot of the games in the genre take "classic" a little too far for nostalgic reasons. Unwieldy UI design, frustrating game mechanics.... Not realizing that people play cRPGs because they're often the only games with a sliver of actual role playing in them.
I feel that a lot of the games in the genre take "classic" a little too far for nostalgic reasons. Unwieldy UI design, frustrating game mechanics.... Not realizing that people play cRPGs because they're often the only games with a sliver of actual role playing in them.
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I dunno, even 15-20 sounds absurd to me. There's a few long ass battles that are thanks to having a ton of enemies (like the Blackfields oil fight) but I'd say that fight is 15 minutes max (provided you aren't constantly reloading it).
If he wanted to try the old style (I know 4 is kinda it's 'own thing') as opposed to (6-8), I would actually recommend the SNES version of 5.
The game's actually not dumbed down and no wire frame dungeons !
Other cRPGS that were on consoles and actually decent were Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday and Might & Magic 2 for the genesis/megadrive. I think Ultima 4 on the Sega Master system was good too .
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I just finished Shadowrun: Dragonfall and yeah, I enjoyed it. Interesting story, good script, unique characters and a really cool setting. The negatives would be the combat which feels like XCOM light, and the complete lack of voice acting which would have taken it to another level. I'll definitely be playing Hong Kong, hopefully they've made some improvements to take it up a notch.
I would recommand starting with Dragon Age Origins or the new Shadow Run games, since they are easy to get into.
After that you should move on to Divinity: Orginal Sin and/or Pillars of Eternity. I belive Tyranny is on the same level as well, but I haven't palyed much of it.
At this point you should be able to handle the classic without too much trouble: Bg1&2, Planescape.
If you like the gameplay of the former, check out Icewind Dale 1&2. If you want something similar to the later, play Torment: Tides of Numenara.
Finally you should also check out Fallout 1&2 as well as Age of Decadence.
After that you should move on to Divinity: Orginal Sin and/or Pillars of Eternity. I belive Tyranny is on the same level as well, but I haven't palyed much of it.
At this point you should be able to handle the classic without too much trouble: Bg1&2, Planescape.
If you like the gameplay of the former, check out Icewind Dale 1&2. If you want something similar to the later, play Torment: Tides of Numenara.
Finally you should also check out Fallout 1&2 as well as Age of Decadence.
I took people's recommendations here and got Shadowrun Dagerfall. I'm quite enjoying it. T
The combat is kind of ok and serviceable, but it feels kind of underwhelming so far in terms of tactics. At least it moves quickly and it's very easy to maintain an overview of the battlefield.
My problem with most CRPGs that I've tried is that they are far too verbose, to the point of exhausting me with pointless drivel and details. I really appreciate the concise nature of Shadowrun's dialogue. Are there any other well written CRPGs that might have similarly concise writing styles?
The combat is kind of ok and serviceable, but it feels kind of underwhelming so far in terms of tactics. At least it moves quickly and it's very easy to maintain an overview of the battlefield.
My problem with most CRPGs that I've tried is that they are far too verbose, to the point of exhausting me with pointless drivel and details. I really appreciate the concise nature of Shadowrun's dialogue. Are there any other well written CRPGs that might have similarly concise writing styles?
If you are looking for newer games, Tyranny is pretty good for that. There is some exposition, but it's not overly lengthy, and the world is so unique that it's absolutely worth reading. It has a lot more combat options than Dragonfall, and the combat is a lot more hectic.
If you're okay with older games, Fallout 1 and 2 don't have that much dialogue, and they're awesome. I don't recall the combat being any more varied than in Dragonfall though.
