• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
Oh no! The poor white men's feathers got ruffled! I'm sorry but the fact that any person saying "the evils committed by cishet men" does absolutely NOTHING to hurt a cishet white man besides his "feathers getting ruffled" is exactly part of the reason why I'll keep saying it. While their feathers are getting ruffled, innocent black people are getting killed by the police just for existing, trans people are getting beaten and killed and having their rights threatened just for, again, existing. "Muslim ban" is an actual term on the fucking political landscape. White supremacy is being handwaved by the fucking White House. Women everywhere are abused, oppressed and locked out. Those are actual problems. Not your ruffled feathers.

First off, I never once said those things aren't actual problems. I never even implied it. Your attempt at whataboutism has no relevance. You may as well have just said "first world problems" instead of typing all that up, if that's the perspective you're coming at this conversation with.

Your entire position seems to be that knowingly using inaccurate, inflammatory rhetoric is fine because of the demographic's complicity in the injustices that you've brought up. My two cents is simply that inaccurate, inflammatory rhetoric that paints all white cis het men with the same brush is going to lead to conversational derails when people who have different opinions from the ones posited by your generalization are present in the conversation. Again, I will source the website's demographic, it is a gaming website after all, it skews heavily white, cis, and male, and many of them will feel like they fall outside of said rhetoric given that the userbase of this site does heavily skew left. They are very much a part of the conversations that this forum has, and their participation is a natural consequence.

It's apparent I'm not going to change your mind or anything here, so it simply would be best if we dropped it. It's just going to devolve into an "Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!" about the complicity of all white men from here on out now that we've both shared our points of view, and ultimately it's only tangenetially related to the main thrust of the thread anyway.
 
Last edited:

ashep

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
How is it a sense of entitlement to want clarification if someone is a TERF or not? It actually affects some of us, you know
Expecting Rowling to respond to a random twitter thread about a tweet she hit the like button on is absolutely entitlement.

Her reasons for liking a tweet are none of your business and the onus is not on her to address the misconceptions of a dozen random internet users.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
Expecting Rowling to respond to a random twitter thread about a tweet she hit the like button on is absolutely entitlement.

Her reasons for liking a tweet are none of your business and the onus is not on her to address the misconceptions of a dozen random internet users.

If she liked a tweet saying white people need to shut up, you can guarantee there'd be a way larger clamor about this.

People desiring a figure who fronts themselves online as politically aware and discusses politics often, to elaborate on their views isn't entitlement.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
First off, I never once said those things aren't actual problems. I never even implied it. Your attempt at whataboutism has no relevance. You may as well have just said "first world problems" instead of typing all that up, if that's the perspective you're coming at this conversation with.

Your entire position seems to be that knowingly using inaccurate, inflammatory rhetoric is fine because of the demographic's complicity in the injustices that you've brought up. My two cents is simply that inaccurate, inflammatory rhetoric that paints all white cis het men with the same brush is going to lead to conversational derails when people who have different opinions from the ones posited by your generalization are present in the conversation. Again, I will source the website's demographic, it is a gaming website after all, it skews heavily white, cis, and male, and many of them will feel like they fall outside of said rhetoric given that the userbase of this site does heavily skew left. They are very much a part of the conversations that this forum has, and their participation is a natural consequence.

It's apparent I'm not going to change your mind or anything here, so it simply would be best if we dropped it. It's just going to devolve into an "Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!" about the complicity of all white men from here on out now that we've both shared our points of view, and ultimately it's only tangenetially related to the main thrust of the thread anyway.

If you're trying to tell me that because both this forum and western society is run, cultivated and mostly populated by Cishet white men, that their concerns no matter how trivial or inconsequential will always override the concerns of every other minority no matter how severe and traumatizing, don't worry, I'm well aware.

But I'm not playing that game any longer. I'll always call out this bs till the day I die.

But you're right we're not going to see eye to eye on this so thanks for the debate .
 

ashep

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
If she liked a tweet saying white people need to shut up, you can guarantee there'd be a way larger clamor about this.

People desiring a figure who fronts themselves online as politically aware and discusses politics often, to elaborate on their views isn't entitlement.
"JK you've made very strong public comments condemning discrimination against the trans community, but I need to get your statement on that random tweet you liked linking to an article containing one or two potentially problematic paragraphs. Is it true that you're actually a trans-exclusive radical feminist?"

You're right, it's not entitlement, it's fucking stupid.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
"cishet man is abusing women!"
"Cishet men is beating transwomen"
"Cishet men is ignoring police killing black people"

"But not all cishet men" means you either think EVERY women is being abused, EVERY transwomen is being beaten and EVERY black person is being killed by a cop OR you can't look past your bellybutton
 

Cap G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
If you're trying to tell me that because both this forum and western society is run, cultivated and mostly populated by Cishet white men, that their concerns no matter how trivial or inconsequential will always override the concerns of every other minority no matter how severe and traumatizing, don't worry, I'm well aware.

Again Cream, I didn't say that their concerns take precedence over those issues. That is something you're inserting into your responses to me that I am having to dispel upon every reply.

I'm just saying it's simply unavoidable that they are a part of the conversation and going out of your way to use inaccurate and inflammatory rhetoric towards them doesn't accomplish anything other than prompt responses from those who feel they fall outside said rhetoric. It's a repetetive, unnecessary, distracting excercise that only occurs because you feel it necessary to use overly broad language. Again, this is likely a fruitless exchange because I don't think we're ever going to agree on the necessity of such broad generalizations.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,267
Some forms of feminism are also not inclusive to PoC. It is something to talk about and while I doubt she'll speak on this tweet exactly, I hope she would eventually speak her mind on this or similar subjects.

White feminism is a thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
"JK you've made very strong public comments condemning discrimination against the trans community, but I need to get your statement on that random tweet you liked linking to an article containing one or two potentially problematic paragraphs. Is it true that you're actually a trans-exclusive radical feminist?"

You're right, it's not entitlement, it's fucking stupid.
In a vacuum the concept of liking a tweet is very innocuous.
But, JK discusses politics, she does that on Twitter, with her Twitter audience. Liking something broadcasts it to everyone who follows you.

Them wanting to ask her about it seems pretty mundane.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Again Cream, I didn't say that their concerns take precedence over those issues. That is something you're inserting into your responses to me that I am having to dispel upon every reply.

I'm just saying it's simply unavoidable that they are a part of the conversation and going out of your way to use inaccurate and inflammatory rhetoric towards them doesn't accomplish anything other than prompt responses from those who feel they fall outside said rhetoric. It's a repetetive, unnecessary, distracting excercise that only occurs because you feel it necessary to use overly broad language. Again, this is likely a fruitless exchange because I don't think we're ever going to agree on the necessity of such broad generalizations.
And I'm saying to get over it. One LGBT black woman saying "fuck white people" does literally nothing to hurt white people. And that's not even what I'm saying anyway. I'm just saying that you guys have to clean up your own house
 

Remy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
87
Some forms of feminism are also not inclusive to PoC. It is something to talk about and while I doubt she'll speak on this tweet exactly, I hope she would eventually speak her mind on this or similar subjects.

White feminism is a thing.
This is true. I had to break it down to my girl when she went to the Women's March in DC. I mean if anything feminism itself used WOC as a stepping stool from the jump.
 
Oct 27, 2017
828
And I'm saying to get over it. One LGBT black woman saying "fuck white people" does literally nothing to hurt white people. And that's not even what I'm saying anyway. I'm just saying that you guys have to clean up your own house

It also does nothing to further your point or dialogue to the people you want to fix things.
 

ashep

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
"cishet man is abusing women!"
"Cishet men is beating transwomen"
"Cishet men is ignoring police killing black people"

"But not all cishet men" means you either think EVERY women is being abused, EVERY transwomen is being beaten and EVERY black person is being killed by a cop OR you can't look past your bellybutton
OR you know, turning gender, sexuality and race into pejoratives just isn't cool full stop.
 
OP
OP
Chamomile

Chamomile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
335
OR you know, turning gender, sexuality and race into pejoratives just isn't cool full stop.
Cishet men is not a pejorative. Much like saying "White people" when discussing academic text and analyzing data.

Also, thank you to all of the trans voices in this thread. Love and positivity to you all.
 

ashep

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
Cishet men is not a pejorative. Much like saying "White people" when discussing academic text and analyzing data.
166.gif
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
See this is exactly what we're talking about.

"black people" not a pejorative. It's what they are

"Muslim people" not a pejorative. It's what they are.

Cishet men not a pejorative. It's what they are. Can't even handle being called what they literally are. The definition of white fragility. "I'm not part of a group! I'm an individual!" Great. Except that's not how the real world works, as literally everyone not a cishet white man can tell you.
 
OP
OP
Chamomile

Chamomile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
335
This isn't a helpful response. Cishet men is not an inherently discriminatory term. It's up to the reader or audience to extract meaning from that identifier. If you instantaneously attach negative connotations to that identifier, then that means you hold prejudiced ideals. If you don't, and merely look at the identifier for what it is, then there's nothing inherently derogatory about it.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
Cishet men not a pejorative. It's what they are. Can't even handle being called what they literally are. The definition of white fragility. "I'm not part of a group! I'm an individual!" Great. Except that's not how the real world works, as literally everyone not a cishet white man can tell you.

Reminds me that TERFs went with "this is pejorative" both to TERF description and cisgender

Isn't cishet used as a derogatory term? If not, what is the difference between cis and cishet?
a cisgender man can be both homosexua, bisexual and heterosexual
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Dunno where you live but even the US. Lookup the LA riots and Koreans.
"Everybody has the potential to be racist!"

All these platitudes and useless statements. I'm so fucking tired of it. Can you present something that actually is helpful to dismantling the very real and near universal power that white supremacy and the patriarchy hold over western society? Those koreans becoming racist is a direct result of the VERY intentional actions of the white people in power in that area. I'm not saying they are good people though. Any racism from any group is bad. But turning minorities against each other to distract from their actions, a very tried and true tactic.
 

ashep

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
See this is exactly what we're talking about.

"black people" not a pejorative. It's what they are

"Muslim people" not a pejorative. It's what they are.

Cishet men not a pejorative. It's what they are. Can't even handle being called what they literally are. The definition of white fragility. "I'm not part of a group! I'm an individual!" Great. Except that's not how the real world works, as literally everyone not a cishet white man can tell you.
It's almost as though context matters. If I say "fuck gold star lesbians, they're ruining the world" it ain't just a descriptor.

But if you want to continue to be intellectually dishonest that's cool.
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
26,851
Florida
I can't believe, based on past behavior, that she would be the type to demonize any group except those that incite hate.

Even if she get that way, she's too smart to call attention to herself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
199
NYC
Reminds me that TERFs went with "this is pejorative" both to TERF description and cisgender


a cisgender man can be both homosexua, bisexual and heterosexual

Thanks. I see it was explained earlier as well. Really feels weird to be identified by these terms I've never even heard of before. Not something I'm used to as a white male, and not something I like.

I hope she doesn't share those feelings, and I don't expect that she does. I don't think she needs to address the molehill, but I think she will as it seems to be bothering some people.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
It's almost as though context matters. If I say "fuck gold star lesbians, they're ruining the world" it ain't just a descriptor.

But if you want to continue to be intellectually dishonest that's cool.
I don't know what more context needs to be added to "cishet white men are the ones in power and are directly causing most of the injustices in western society and cishet white men as a group are not doing enough to call this out and attack it". It's a very direct statement.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,332
This isn't a helpful response. Cishet men is not an inherently discriminatory term. It's up to the reader or audience to extract meaning from that identifier. If you instantaneously attach negative connotations to that identifier, then that means you hold prejudiced ideals. If you don't, and merely look at the identifier for what it is, then there's nothing inherently derogatory about it.

Or you can look at the context in which it was used, and the person who posted it and deduce from there.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Or you can look at the context in which it was used, and the person who posted it and deduce from there.
Someone saying "the evils committed by cishet white men" derailing an entire thread to debate how important the cishet white men's feelings are and not the actual evils or even what this thread was actually about, J.K's liked tweet, is a problem with the cishet white men, not the person who said it.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
It's almost as though context matters. If I say "fuck gold star lesbians, they're ruining the world" it ain't just a descriptor.

It is. It literally is.

If it was like "holy shit this car is so slow. What a cishet men !" it would be a cursing. "The Sonic Forces demo is such a CisHet Men, damn". *kicks toe on a corner* "CIS HET MEN FUCKER"
"This new song by that black rapper ? This is Cis Het Men rap"
"Damn this Cis Het Men [descriptor] is such a Cis Het Men [derrogatory]"

This is what using as a derrogative term works.
 
Oct 27, 2017
199
NYC
I don't know what more context needs to be added to "cishet white men are the ones in power and are directly causing most of the injustices in western society and cishet white men as a group are not doing enough to call this out and attack it". It's a very direct statement.

How do you know that many of these people in power aren't in the closet?
Maybe things would be even worse if another group had more people in power?
You seem to be filled with hate for straight white males, in a forum where most of us support transpeople's struggle.
 

ashep

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
I don't know what more context needs to be added to "cishet white men are the ones in power and are directly causing most of the injustices in western society and cishet white men as a group are not doing enough to call this out and attack it". It's a very direct statement.
Not only are you using it as a pejorative, but it demonstrates a staggering geopolitical ignorance.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
How do you know that many of these people in power aren't in the closet?
Maybe things would be even worse if another group had more people in power?
You seem to be filled with hate for straight white males, in a forum where most of us support transpeople's struggle.
"How do you know those aren't power aren't actually gay?"

"Things could be way worse if anyone but white men had more power!"

Those are your arguments.

Come on. At least try.

Do you believe that cishet white men are doing enough to fight for equality?
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
USER WAS WARNED FOR MAKING PERSONAL ATTACKS
Cream, you're ridiculous and going about making enemies out of allies isn't some brave stance. It's fucking dumb.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.