J.K. Rowling and Her Legacy of Hate: The UK Gender Critical Movement

[PAFenix]

This thread and the Women Criticize Sexual Design thread are the only ones I repeatedly see trash accounts actively enter for the sole purpose of driving themselves off a cliff.

I think you're right... they won't. Especially now.


View: https://twitter.com/ScrambledAshton/status/1621052962926919682

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I guess the butthurts got mad that she didn't go into DETAIL about the game like she did all the others. Just stated that trans women are women, that some people would buy it and others won't, gave a release date and platforms (too much info if you ask me, plausible deniability for fairness I guess), and then moved on to Atomic Heart. From a fanbase that thrives on being "TECHNICAL" about people's wording, it amused me greatly to see that turned around on them.

"sHoW mE wHeRe ShE sAiD sOmEtHiNg tRanSpHoBiC" Show me where the video said something bad about the game.

 

[Jave]

This is hilarious. I rarely tweet, but of course the second I tweet about me not supporting HL I get the expected replies "Oh but I bet you have a smartphone" or "Hope you didn't purchase this other game."

That "Mr. Gotcha" comic has become the unironic representation of the current HP fandom.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

I look forward to the at least 8 topics we'll get on gaming side from people who claim they didn't know and didn't see the sticky.

 

[entrydenied]

There's quite a few of these types on social media proudly proclaiming things like "im gonna get deluxe edition" or "im getting 2 copies!" like its a noble endeavor to give WB or JKR money and not laughably puerile.

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It's super funny since the collector's edition is one of the worst that I've seen and I heard it's sold for 300 dollars.

 

[Chumunga64]

it's really funny seeing so many people clowning on the leaked hogwarts legacy gameplay

 

[Crumrin]

Fwiw - I got the game early and also one major NPC in the game is trans. I was quite happy to see this.

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I haven't played it yet but that's an interesting development. Between the trans-inclusive character creator and a trans-coded major NPC, it looks like Avalanche Software is doing some good things towards making transgender individuals feel welcome at Hogwarts. I think that's great.

 

[Vonocourt]

I kind of don't think sending "trolling" tweets of player characters after buying the game or taking comfort in a trans coded NPC does much of anything in addressing the issue of supporting Rowling.

It does the opposite.

 

[Finaj]

So, what are the chances we see JKR coming out against Hogwarts Legacy due to the trans inclusion or do we think she cares too much about money/royalties and keep her mouth shut in this instance?

 

[Bionic]

I feel torn about there being trans inclusive stuff in HL. On one hand, all the good things about trans inclusion. On the other hand, the false impression that playing the game can be defended as an act of allyship, or that there are redeemable aspects of supporting Joanne. It's like tobacco companies funding anti-smoking ads, or oil companies doing environmental cleanup. They are the problem still.

 

[Lozange]

So, what are the chances we see JKR coming out against Hogwarts Legacy due to the trans inclusion or do we think she cares too much about money/royalties and keep her mouth shut in this instance?

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Ultimately JKR is a massive hypocrite and I think she on some level knows it. She calls trans people rapists and then sends letters and stuff to cis people with... Being optimistic, dubious history in that regard.
She also, like a lot of bigots, often makes claims that are then clearly debunked by anyone who's paying a small amount of attention, and makes readings of scientific studies that blatantly ignore half of the findings - TERFs are by definition, idiots, but Occam's razor says that malice is a much easier explanation than her misinterpreting every possible piece of trans positive information presented to her.

All this is to say that I doubt she cares about any trans characters in hogwarts legacy. She's still making money, and that money will go towards funding conservative political movements to scrap the rights of trans people. It's a net win for her. She might even say "I love trans people, just look at Hogwarts Legacy, a game that I approved of - I just have concerns about the rights of women..."

EDIT: I'm just now reminded of a somewhat similar situation with Dragon Quest XI - the composer of that game, the late Sugiyama, was a massive bigot and war crime denier who funded a load of bullshit. DQXI has Sylvando, by all accounts a queer icon as one of the main characters. On the surface, this seems like a contradiction, but Sugiyama probably made a load of money from his concerts, and I didn't hear anything of him denouncing DQXI before he died. It's still money, at the end of the day.

 

[Kyuuji]

I haven't played it yet but that's an interesting development. Between the trans-inclusive character creator and a trans-coded major NPC, it looks like Avalanche Software is doing some good things towards making transgender individuals feel welcome at Hogwarts. I think that's great.

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I think the fact that this is your only post in the thread is interesting.

 

[Rodelero]

So, what are the chances we see JKR coming out against Hogwarts Legacy due to the trans inclusion or do we think she cares too much about money/royalties and keep her mouth shut in this instance?

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I don't think Rowling would attack the game for including trans people because it would contradict her public stance that she's totally okay with trans people existing. She merely wants to make their lives harder and worse in every imaginable way.

 

[Vonocourt]

So, what are the chances we see JKR coming out against Hogwarts Legacy due to the trans inclusion or do we think she cares too much about money/royalties and keep her mouth shut in this instance?

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If anything it'll be used as a smoke screen.

"She's not transphobic, look at Professor Gubbeflatcher. She just cares about protecting women."

 

[Kyuuji]

It's the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. To have something that works to support and further an individual in harming trans people feature trans-positive things isn't great, it's insidious. A fictional trans character will never outweigh the real lives lost or endangered by Rowling's actions.

 

[Guppeth]

Rowling says she "knows and loves trans people", so she's not going to oppose a trans character in her game. She's not going to outright say trans people must be destroyed. She's not the greatest writer, but she's smart enough to write between the lines. She boosts hateful people without repeating their hate verbatim.

It's why "show me where she said something transphobic" works so well.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

I obviously can't read her mind, but I get the impression she's mostly genuine about her feelings on trans people. Or rather, she thinks she is. Like she's the type of bigot that would have lunch with me and come away thinking I'm a good person. I am not one of those predators in the bathroom or out to groom kids or an extremist on twitter. I'm one of the good ones. Then she'd be too dumb, stubborn, paranoid, and filled with hate to piece together how dangerous and unfair this type of thinking is. I doubt in her mind she literally wants us all dead. The reality is her type of bigot is arguably more consequential and challenging for us than like, someone on the religious right who out right admits they hate us all.

So yeah, I don't think she cares about trans characters in the game. I also don't think trolling her about it would matter or be effective. Might even be counter productive, giving more credit to the idea you can support HP and split her off from it. Probably doesn't matter much either way though, people are going to come up with logic for why playing the game is actually morally good, she's going to complain about being harassed anyway, and so on.

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

If anything it'll be used as a smoke screen.

"She's not transphobic, look at Professor Gubbeflatcher. She just cares about protecting women."

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Didn't we see similar types of dismissals on the web in defence of Cyberpunk 2077 because it had a trans woman character in a minor role, thus in their eyes absolving Projekt Red?

Hell, wasn't that the same logic Gamergate used when creating their mascot (the red headed woman)?

 

[Kyuuji]

She's too coy in her wording and too consistent in her platforming of, and rubbing shoulders with, people who explicitly hate us — and don't shy away from saying as much — for me to lend any benefit to her being genuine when she says she loves trans people. If she had lunch with me she wouldn't take me as one of the good ones because I'd have no trouble telling her to her face what her actions have resulted in.

If a children's charity writes an open letter to you letting you know your actions have resulted in trans children attempting suicide, and your response is to campaign against them to the point where they're having to limit vital services then I struggle to believe you're someone who thinks you love trans people. This isn't the process of a person whose foremost thought on us is compassion.

I really don't see the point in giving concessions to Rowling. She knows what she's doing and she's deliberate in doing it. She's found a means of being openly bigoted that results in her being heralded as a champion of women's rights by the media apparatus of an entire country. Trans women being the enemy is the key element sustaining that glory. There's zero reason to believe she thinks she's genuine when she claims to care about trans people, when she's deliberately doing what she can to make our lives worse and has been doing so for years.

 

[Surakian]

Imagine dying on a hill for HL. Does this make these people feel better about their purchase? Is their decision supposed to offend people here in this thread when they decide to come in here to say "I have the game/I am buying the game"?

 

[ClickyCal']

Is their decision supposed to offend people here in this thread when they decide to come in here to say "I have the game/I am buying the game"?

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Yes. Basically anyone doing that is purely doing it out of trying to "trigger" and troll.

 

[Moogle]

Didn't we see similar types of dismissals on the web in defence of Cyberpunk 2077 because it had a trans woman character in a minor role, thus in their eyes absolving Projekt Red?

Hell, wasn't that the same logic Gamergate used when creating their mascot (the red headed woman)?

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Yes, and it's always been a stupid defence.
The mascot... repressed memories: unlocked 😨

 

[KillstealWolf]

I'd be careful in Sales Threads for the upcoming month as well. I imagine some will try and side-step the rules in there as well.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

She's too clever in her wording, and too consistent in her platforming of people who explicitly hate us and who don't shy away from saying as much for me to lend any benefit to her being genuine when she says she loves trans people. If she had lunch with me she wouldn't take me as 'one of the good ones' because I'd have no trouble telling her to her face what her actions have resulted in.

If a charity writes an open letter to you letting you know your actions have resulted in trans children attempting suicide, and your response is to campaign against them to the point that they're having to limit their services, and you boast about bank balance in response to the criticism then I struggle to believe you're someone who thinks you love trans people.

I really don't see the point in giving concessions to Rowling. Like, at all. She knows what she's doing and she's deliberate in doing it. She's just found a means of being openly bigoted while also being uplifted by the media apparatus of an entire country and heralded as a champion of women's rights. There's zero reason to think she's genuine when she says she cares about trans people when she's making every effort to make our lives worse and has been doing so for years.

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I don't think she is genuine when she says she cares about trans people. I think she thinks she is genuine.

It's not a concession. Whether she is clever about her wording or deluded enough to push aside cognitive dissonance it makes no difference, she is just as responsible. I think her motives are different than a lot of the others, the Matt Walsh's of the world, but that doesn't mean it's any better.

 

[Kyuuji]

I don't think she is genuine when she says she cares about trans people. I think she thinks she is genuine.

It's not a concession. Whether she is clever about her wording or deluded enough to push aside cognitive dissonance it makes no difference, she is just as responsible. I think her motives are different than a lot of the others, the Matt Walsh's of the world, but that doesn't mean it's any better.

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I know, I'm saying I see no reason to believe that she thinks she cares about trans people. Like, none.

If a charity writes an open letter to you letting you know your actions have resulted in trans children attempting suicide, and your response is to campaign against them to the point that they're having to limit their services, and you boast about bank balance in response to the criticism then I struggle to believe you're someone who thinks you love trans people.

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It is a concession as it lends her the benefit that she is not deliberate in her intent, when she clearly is.

 

[deimosmasque]

Didn't we see similar types of dismissals on the web in defence of Cyberpunk 2077 because it had a trans woman character in a minor role, thus in their eyes absolving Projekt Red?

Hell, wasn't that the same logic Gamergate used when creating their mascot (the red headed woman)?

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Yes, yes we did on both accounts.

 

[Cenauru]

Yeah I don't think there's any truth behind JKR's words, her actions are dripping with malice and she regularly puts trans people on blast whenever she gets the opportunity to. Any "care" for trans people is a defense, not an admission of what she feels. She won't say "I hate trans people" because of the optics, not because she thinks she cares.

 

[Kyuuji]

Yeah I don't think there's any truth behind JKR's words, her actions are dripping with malice and she regularly puts trans people on blast whenever she gets the opportunity to. Any "care" for trans people is a defense, not an admission of what she feels. She won't say "I hate trans people" because of the optics, not because she thinks she cares.

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Exactly.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

Maybe. I definitely think she's swung in that direction based on how she talks on twitter, the classic case of doubling down and becoming antagonistic when you receive any kind of push back or criticism.

I just don't see why she'd intentionally be so strategic. It's not like she'd face serious consequences if she was as vocal as those others. As long as you don't outright say "trans people should die" you're fine. I guess you could say she still desires to be popular and friendly with the apathetic centrists who want politeness.

 

[ClickyCal']

Maybe. I definitely think she's swung in that direction based on how she talks on twitter, the classic case of doubling down and becoming antagonistic when you receive any kind of push back or criticism.

I just don't see why she'd intentionally be so strategic. It's not like she'd face serious consequences if she was as vocal as those others. As long as you don't outright say "trans people should die" you're fine. I guess you could say she still desires to be popular and friendly with the apathetic centrists who want politeness.

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All of the defense she gets online is purely due to her wording. "She is just someone fighting for women's rights and protection!" Or anything else along those lines. She knows as long as she never words her hate as unfiltered actual hatred, she can continue to have the disingenuous support.

 

[Richter1887]

I watched the Shaun video on HP the other day and I didn't know just how deep this trash hole went.

Like god damn... isthisyourking?.gif

It's such a terrible written story and I just can't understand how it got so popular. I only read the first book and that was enough for me. Really glad I stopped there.

Shaun made a good point in how she "addresses" people's complaints just so they shut up so hearing wizard game has trans characters sounds like another example of that bullshit. Even if it's not her personally that added them.

Fuck her and fuck her game.

 

[DrForester]

She's too coy in her wording and too consistent in her platforming of, and rubbing shoulders with, people who explicitly hate us — and don't shy away from saying as much — for me to lend any benefit to her being genuine when she says she loves trans people. If she had lunch with me she wouldn't take me as one of the good ones because I'd have no trouble telling her to her face what her actions have resulted in.

If a children's charity writes an open letter to you letting you know your actions have resulted in trans children attempting suicide, and your response is to campaign against them to the point where they're having to limit vital services then I struggle to believe you're someone who thinks you love trans people. This isn't the process of a person whose foremost thought on us is compassion.

I really don't see the point in giving concessions to Rowling. She knows what she's doing and she's deliberate in doing it. She's found a means of being openly bigoted that results in her being heralded as a champion of women's rights by the media apparatus of an entire country. Trans women being the enemy is the key element sustaining that glory. There's zero reason to believe she thinks she's genuine when she claims to care about trans people, when she's deliberately doing what she can to make our lives worse and has been doing so for years.

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I don't know if you could even call her that coy in her wording anymore. Not that there wasn't horrible stuff already, but that one last week where she likened all trans people to rapists seemed really unambiguous and an escalation of her usual rhetoric.

 

[deimosmasque]

Imagine dying on a hill for HL. Does this make these people feel better about their purchase? Is their decision supposed to offend people here in this thread when they decide to come in here to say "I have the game/I am buying the game"?

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Cruelty is the point.

Genocide of us is the goal.

They are snowflakes and think we are too, when in reality we have tougher skin then they will ever have.

Because we deal with this shit ever single day.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

I dont get why these posters need to barge in and mention they've got the game or plan on getting it. I mean, even if you have/are, why twist the knife in a community that's obviously hurt by it?

 

[deimosmasque]

See my post above.

Crulety is the point.

 

[Mekanos]

I dont get why these posters need to barge in and mention they've got the game or plan on getting it. I mean, even if you have/are, why twist the knife in a community that's obviously hurt by it?

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Virtue signaling but for chuds

 

[Deleted member 25606]

There being a trans character in the game seems actually appropriate in some ways to what Allies are, as in on the surface when there is no drawback so supportive with "trans rights are human right" echoing in the air, but the minute it could affect them they are the first to put knives in our backs. Same vibe as a game with a trans character where the money goes to and the game widens the reach of someone trying to help kickstart a genocide of transgender people.

So yeah it works but not in the way they intended.

 

[Kyuuji]

I just don't see why she'd intentionally be so strategic. It's not like she'd face serious consequences if she was as vocal as those others. As long as you don't outright say "trans people should die" you're fine. I guess you could say she still desires to be popular and friendly with the apathetic centrists who want politeness.

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Call it strategic or call it careful but the pay-off for it is what we see today. Where she's managed to position, escalate and normalise transphobic rhetoric gradually over the course of years while being heralded as a saviour and having on-demand access to newspaper headlines, with no material impact to her career or bank balance and thousands of fans defending her from any and all criticism. She's managed to work her way toward largely saying what she thinks with no consequence other than being celebrated for it.

I don't know if you could even call her that coy in her wording anymore. Not that there wasn't horrible stuff already, but that one last week where she likened all trans people to rapists seemed really unambiguous and an escalation of her usual rhetoric.

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You're not wrong. I should have specified I meant more when looking over the past years and the progression. It's hard not to see the gradual escalation as deliberate.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

See my post above.

Crulety is the point.

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My bad. I saw the posts and rushed to write my own. Should have read through it all first.

 

[KillstealWolf]

There being a trans character in the game seems actually appropriate in some ways to what Allies are, as in on the surface when there is no drawback so supportive with "trans rights are human right" echoing in the air, but the minute it could affect them they are the first to put knives in our backs. Same vibe as a game with a trans character where the money goes to and the game widens the reach of someone trying to help kickstart a genocide of transgender people.

So yeah it works but not in the way they intended.

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It has the same level of energy as the "I can't possibly be racist, some of my best friends are black." Informal Fallacy.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

It's the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. To have something that works to support and further an individual in harming trans people feature trans-positive things isn't great, it's insidious. A fictional trans character will never outweigh the real lives lost or endangered by Rowling's actions.

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Well, it's also a bit early to say. The portrayal could still be awful. Then it's not even a wolf in sheep's clothing but a wolf in... Wolf's clothing?

 

[Kyuuji]

Well, it's also a bit early to say. The portrayal could still be awful. Then it's not even a wolf in sheep's clothing but a wolf in... Wolf's clothing?

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For sure, that's true. You can apply my post to the character creator though. The fundamental point is that it doesn't matter what is or isn't in the game since the issues it's connected to outside of the game dwarf that conversation.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

It has the same level of energy as the "I can't possibly be racist, some of my best friends are black." Informal Fallacy.

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Yes, yes it does, along with "I'm not ----, BUT.....

 

[Platy]

So, what are the chances we see JKR coming out against Hogwarts Legacy due to the trans inclusion or do we think she cares too much about money/royalties and keep her mouth shut in this instance?

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I already said this before: She will see people posting pics of masculine looking people on the female bathroom and will use as irrefutable proof that when people can, they will make "men go to the women's bathroom"

 

[ConVito]

I kind of don't think sending "trolling" tweets of player characters after buying the game or taking comfort in a trans coded NPC does much of anything in addressing the issue of supporting Rowling.

It does the opposite.

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Right? I think it has the same effect as all those conservatives who BRAVELY bought Keurigs and Nikes just to burn them.

Like... you still bought it. You literally gave the people you're "protesting" exactly what they wanted.

 

[Cenauru]

Cruelty is the point.

Genocide of us is the goal.

They are snowflakes and think we are too, when in reality we have tougher skin then they will ever have.

Because we deal with this shit ever single day.

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It's always fascinating to me how these people call us snowflakes for sticking to our guns, and not letting people walk over us. Meanwhile their whole moral code is "lol you care about things" and spend their time loudly complaining that people have empathy and care about social issues.

 

[Vonocourt]

Maybe. I definitely think she's swung in that direction based on how she talks on twitter, the classic case of doubling down and becoming antagonistic when you receive any kind of push back or criticism.

I just don't see why she'd intentionally be so strategic. It's not like she'd face serious consequences if she was as vocal as those others. As long as you don't outright say "trans people should die" you're fine. I guess you could say she still desires to be popular and friendly with the apathetic centrists who want politeness.

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I mean,for this weird conversation that's happening now, magnified a thousandfold by "Allies" who don't care to actually listen to people they claim to support.

 

[Amalthea]

I think she plays to the low literary comprehension and critical understanding skills of many people.
It helps that some people can't see how bad a writer she is when she can't even give their mature fiction character realistic names.
Even worse when people are like: "That she named the skin-collecting serial-killer in her last novel 'Plimplomp Bottlescrump' just proves her genius!"

 

[Yesterzine]

She'd more likely name him Dermis Epicollect.

 

[16bits]

Let's not forget, everything in their writing is heavily "inspired" by existing myths and legends.

Or in other words, plagiarised

 

[Yesterzine]

Wasn't there a case that went nowhere because she's rich that she ripped off a huge amount from a previous book with a very similar main character name?

I believe that a fuck load more than I did at the time certainly.