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J. Schreier: "Don't let billion dollar marketing convince you it's a spoiler" [See Threadmarks for further clarification]
- Thread starter Musubi
- Start date
Like what do some of you want them to write about instead of actual news? Just abunch of shitty "10 reasons you should super excited for E3" garbage? It's not their job to just market for the publishers, even if it's what most do anyway.
I think in your mind you're thinking journalists sneak into a dev house under cover, grab some shaky videos and then profit millions from youtube impressions.
Trailers and the like generally rely on game footage so they are involved.
The demos need to be developed. God of War's 10 minute E3 demo took a full year to develop for example.
It is information that spoils the surprise and potentially lessens the intended impact of the reveal. It is a spoiler.
Obviously it is his job to share this information. But I'm not going to go along with the idea that it's unhealthy to enjoy surprises or be bummed by them being spoiled, just because companies are involved.
Obviously it is his job to share this information. But I'm not going to go along with the idea that it's unhealthy to enjoy surprises or be bummed by them being spoiled, just because companies are involved.
According to this dev, yes it can and quite a bit cost wise:
From this thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ga...-leaks-impact-your-work.121723/#post-21563407
So they worked a full year for a demo? I say use that one year to work on the game itself and not for something to show off as part of marketing. Leave the marketing to the marketing department.
For better or worse, E3 is about chasing the hype dragon. Big surprises are memorable and have the ability to make a new IP or change the narrative of a first party and how they're performing to hundreds of thousands-if not millions-of total viewers. In that respect, developers and publishers absolutely have a big investment in surprising us.
The press leaking stuff, presumably via intel they're getting from people who shouldn't be talking or are under NDA, isn't super cool. I don't think we should harass the press for doing their job, but I'd rather they fail at it tbh.
The press leaking stuff, presumably via intel they're getting from people who shouldn't be talking or are under NDA, isn't super cool. I don't think we should harass the press for doing their job, but I'd rather they fail at it tbh.
You are saying this when the main topic of dicussions involves one of the major games journalits responilbe for so much hard-cutting investigative journalism?
Point still stands though, if E3 "spoilers" are such a cause of concern for you then avoid the places that are likely to spoil it.
I like watching E3 and I also like surprises, however unlike some, alot of conferences were during working hour or inconvenient times of the day as I don't live in the USA. Therefore during work I wasn't checking twitter, visiting Destructoid or Giant Bomb or The Guardian, I avoided it until I could get back and watch the conference after it had aired, and you know what? That approach pretty much always worked.
I can understand dev disappointment, but I ultimately agree with Jason, for the most part. Here I was yesterday saying "damn everything got leaked," but in the end, it doesn't matter, as my excitement for the games in question is the same whether it's a leak or an official reveal. I still haven't seen many of those games in action, so I'm still excited for it anyway.
I saw a Destiny streamer on Twitter ranting about how it was bad that people leaked the Destiny expansion image, and in the thread people were complaining that their reveal was "spoiled" and so on... Felt like shill behavior, and people complaining over "spoilers" to a reveal is silly.
I saw a Destiny streamer on Twitter ranting about how it was bad that people leaked the Destiny expansion image, and in the thread people were complaining that their reveal was "spoiled" and so on... Felt like shill behavior, and people complaining over "spoilers" to a reveal is silly.
Eh, the event itself is entertainment. Yes, it's marketing, but at the same time it's a celebration of the culture, in a way. It's almost like telling someone not to get excited at Disney World because you're getting nickel and dimed in the process. Having parts of the event leaked is like having a slice of cake but you're only taking a bite once every couple days. It's not nearly as enjoyable.
We're not talking about a commercial or a CG trailer for the most part. We're talking about gameplay.
It's not like the God of War team wasn't working on it. The demo section was more or less the second bit of gameplay you see while playing God of War.
Yea I agree. I dont see the big deal honestly. Yes it does suck for the developers who do deserve to get reactions to things they have developed for ages but does it really harm them in the long run if the reveal is amazing? Like if its underwhelming when its spoiled in advanced, its going to be underwhelming when it is shown officially. And vice versa.
People complaining about it should really not be visiting places where spoilers are likely to occur and just keep themselves to a blackout. Its their own fault they are spoiled.
People complaining about it should really not be visiting places where spoilers are likely to occur and just keep themselves to a blackout. Its their own fault they are spoiled.
Yeah no, I like being surprised when watching, when a trailer starts and you have no idea what it is about, it's great, I remember when lost legacy was announced, I was looking for clues during the trailer to identify the game and I went crazy when I saw Chloe
Oh I actually agree. By that point it's just trying to say "called it first". I think the point Jason is making is that we shouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
We should be excited by content, not confirming that something exists.
But that demo is still used for marketing. It was made for marketing.
Games journalism doesn't need to be like that though. I am all up for games journalists to report on and discover bad practices in the industry and appreciate the hard work that Jason does there. Or for feature articles on relevant websites about games.
But I just can't get behind games journalism to report on leaks two days before the event is meant to begin. It's cheap lazy journalism really disrespecting the hard work of the developers/artist/marketing teams from revealing something how they wanted too.
This is not hardcore journalism reporting about X thing happening in the world to perform a public service. It's a game reveal about a creation the 100's/1000's have tried their best to keep secret till the time they want to reveal
Yes, E3 demo requires a lot of work, they have crunch too, as it's a pretty rock hard deadline, the marketing teams aren't developers, so they can't do it, they'll just use it when it's done. Why I can completely understand devs being pissed off by leaks, I certainly would be in their position.
Yes? I don't see the problem? I love what Schreier is doing for game journalism, most of the time. He's one of very few people doing what I want game journalism to be. He's also one of those reporting on leaks (and then getting mad that the publisher "blacklisted" them) and I really disagree with his view on what leaks are and do to the industry.
So what's the issue exactly?
So the main message here is I like Journalism but only when it suits my interests?
To the people who are worried that a leak would spoil something for them or alter their experience in an undesirable way, why are they frequenting forums like this near the time of E3, or this forum at all where leaks and rumors are always being posted year round? This is the thing I'll never understand about these types of concerns. If it means that much and people are that concerned how could you possibly justify browsing places that do exactly the very thing theyre trying to avoid? Seems like a lot of wanting to have their cake and eat it too.
It's the hype culture. Many people want to be stimulated over and over and find more enjoyment in surprises and excitement than actually playing games.
User banned (1 week): inflammatory point of comparison
Schreier acting like his just doing his job, I'm sure a hitman can get away with killing by just saying it's his job. Leaks happen in every industry not just video games and I don't think there's anything wrong with them but don't act like you're doing this for nothing but personal reasons.
If these reveals are causing additional crunch then just leak absolutely everything until that stops.
No there are very different ways to "punish" papers/sites/employees who leak these products.
I think it's kind of silly that some people here see the developers at these companies as a monolith; a lot of these companies have 500-600 people or more on the AAA projects. Simply put: devs are *not* in control of the flow of information throughout their studios. They hope they can control it, they incentive everyone playing ball, but at the end of the day if someone steps out of line then a leak happens.
I mean, it's cool when it all just works, and somehow a secret was kept, but this is the exception now and not the rule, so it's fucking weird to see journalists get singled out for being spoilers or whatever when the phone call is usually coming from inside the house anyway, y'know?
In short, if you're working on a AAA game, assuming you can keep that a secret in this industry is like thinking you can control the weather. If it does what you want, you just got lucky.
I mean, it's cool when it all just works, and somehow a secret was kept, but this is the exception now and not the rule, so it's fucking weird to see journalists get singled out for being spoilers or whatever when the phone call is usually coming from inside the house anyway, y'know?
In short, if you're working on a AAA game, assuming you can keep that a secret in this industry is like thinking you can control the weather. If it does what you want, you just got lucky.
so the game's industry is not the same as other industry's regarding this. Thats literally the point i was making.
frankly it's been obvious for a long time that there's a major demographic on era that cares much more about the drama around games than actually playing and enjoying games
I say there is something wrong if it requires a full year of development with crunch probably to make a demo to show on stage. Don't do a demo. Just show a trailer or something.
Tuning a section of gameplay to both work as a segment of a game and market the game to the most live eyes that will ever see it - and for the first time anyone is hearing of the game - is something only a developer can do, not a marketing department.
So tell me what value is added by reporting on this a couple of days in advance ?
And yes to your question because I don't think any value is added.
Oh no
People are getting their dopamine highs from the wrong thing!
This unhealthy behaviour must stop! Why can't they get their dopamine highs from consuming paid products instead?
Man I remember when Gizmodo was (and still is) banned from all Apple conferences for leaking/or whatever that iPhone 4 they found.
I think hearing about it is not the problem but seeing the footage of what they would have shown on an event is definitely disappointing. Just realized that with bleeding edge from ninja theory, must have sucked for the developers.
No one was mad that Jason leaked that the next AC is going to be set in scandinavia.
No one was mad that Jason leaked that the next AC is going to be set in scandinavia.
thats not the same thing im talking about.
Thats between apple and Gizmodo,
Not Apple deliberatly riling up consumers to attack journalists for figuring stuff out.
Have to agree with all of this. Especially the part about altering the approach if said approach is so liable to cost devs money and resources for having info leak. Maybe stop putting so much effort into keeping everything a secret.
If it costs that much money maybe its time to alter your approach and stop trying to go for shock surprises?
It was an amazing demo and great marketing so maybe getting the devs involved in the marketing was a great move?