Like what do some of you want them to write about instead of actual news? Just abunch of shitty "10 reasons you should super excited for E3" garbage? It's not their job to just market for the publishers, even if it's what most do anyway.It's their job? Leaking information that would go public in let's say a few days just to take the spotlight and make a name for yourself? Nobody gaines anything with this except the leaker himself. Well, gaining, feeling good about themselves or whatever it is that drives them to do so.
Without the developers consent? Then they're mere parasites.
Some journalism feeding off rumours, speculations and leaks.
Trailers and the like generally rely on game footage so they are involved.Why are devs expected to work on marketing though? Shouldn't it be the marketing department doing it?
The demos need to be developed. God of War's 10 minute E3 demo took a full year to develop for example.Why are devs expected to work on marketing though? Shouldn't it be the marketing department doing it?
Ha, very true. Exactly how I feel about this.
Like many, I can see where both sides are coming from, but ultimately I think I side with Jason.
Sure, it sucks for devs if their reveal isn't done how they wanted. I can totally get this argument.
But, for one, does it really harm them? And for two, if leaks are inevitable nowadays, perhaps it's time to adjust your marketing strategy?
From this thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ga...-leaks-impact-your-work.121723/#post-21563407
- Its a bummer for morale. You're working hard, hoping that you're gonna blow someones mind (we delight watching reaction posts or videos) and then because someone was an asshole or was careless your fans learn about it in a very unoptimal way and make assumptions
- Strictly business? A lot of money can be lost by leaks. Not going to give you exact numbers but enough money to make you go HOLY FUCK WHAT
The demos need to be developed. God of War's 10 minute E3 demo took a full year to develop for example.
I'd care way more about game journalism as a whole of they completely dropped this part of their job. I wanna see game journalists report stuff like the THQ AMA and especially see them keeping the pressure on THQ to sort out the situation. I wanna see big stories on work environment and stuff like that, both good and bad. I want to see collected news about officially released info. I want to read personal anecdotes and opinion pieces.
The fact that they focus so much on leaks, especially close to the announcement, make me think less of the work and makes me not visit their sites much. It feels more like reading tabloid journalism. And it makes me sad.
Point still stands though, if E3 "spoilers" are such a cause of concern for you then avoid the places that are likely to spoil it.I would love to see more games follow the RE2 route and announce development early and then make their content reveals a bit later on (although then you can get situations like Metroid Prime 4 where 'fans' scream that the game was announced way too early).
The leaking of actual marketing materials and trailers is disappointing though.
I get the point you're making but this isn't a great example considering the event has already happened during your media blackout.
So they worked a full year for a demo? I say use that one year to work on the game itself and not for something to show off as part of marketing. Leave the marketing to the marketing department.
Oh I actually agree. By that point it's just trying to say "called it first". I think the point Jason is making is that we shouldn't be in this situation to begin with.Leaks two days in advance are the worst of both worlds, though. You don't get the open communication or the surprise. Announcements of projects once they leave pre-production (I don't think you can go earlier than that with the rate of cancellation in this industry) would be nice, and dropping a trailer out of the blue sometime after that like most movies do would still be fun and would still be surprising. Mentioning a bunch of trailers we're going to see two days later doesn't really accomplish anything. The secrecy has problems, yes, but short term leaks don't solve any of them.
Pretty much doesn't care if he's doing the leaking
We're not talking about a commercial or a CG trailer for the most part. We're talking about gameplay.
It's not like the God of War team wasn't working on it. The demo section was more or less the second bit of gameplay you see while playing God of War.
Yes, E3 demo requires a lot of work, they have crunch too, as it's a pretty rock hard deadline, the marketing teams aren't developers, so they can't do it, they'll just use it when it's done. Why I can completely understand devs being pissed off by leaks, I certainly would be in their position.So they worked a full year for a demo? I say use that one year to work on the game itself and not for something to show off as part of marketing. Leave the marketing to the marketing department.
This so much, couldn't have said it better myself.A capitalist journalist with a vested interest in perpetuating leaks tells people that leaks are good and that those who don't like them are "unhealthy"?
I'm extremely shocked at this development!
Also it's funny how Era suddenly goes full Marxist as soon as spoiler-discussion comes up. Why is it that this example of being "capitalist stooges" is where you draw the line but not, say, the GOTY threads where we all vote on what game to advertise are? All of Gaming Side is capitalism; if you're here and taking the time to post then you're as much of a capitalist stooge as any "spoiler-phobe," and that goes for J Schreier's leaks as well. Just say you don't care lol, trying to make it into some moralistic thing is inherently hypocritical.
Oh and btw I made a Spoiler/Leak-Free E3 Thread for us unhealthy people here if you want :)
Yes? I don't see the problem? I love what Schreier is doing for game journalism, most of the time. He's one of very few people doing what I want game journalism to be. He's also one of those reporting on leaks (and then getting mad that the publisher "blacklisted" them) and I really disagree with his view on what leaks are and do to the industry.You are saying this when the main topic of dicussions involves one of the major games journalits responilbe for so much hard-cutting investigative journalism?
Couldn't agree more. Such a weird thing for fans and consumers to get bent out of shape over. It's not your job (or the media's) to protect corporate marketing campaigns, it's the job of those companies to either prevent or adapt to leaks. A good start would be not being so goddamn overly secretive, and feeding in to this shitty, often fanboy/console warrior driven thirst for "megaton announcements" and shitty press conference wars.
Like what does the fact that we know the fucking name of From's next game and that GRRM is involved really spoil?
I know what Chris Nolan's next movie is called. We when know who is in it. It's not out for over a year. That's not going to stop people from being hyped as fuck when the first trailer.
Game companies should stop treating their consumers like children, and video game enthusiasts should stop acting like children.
So the main message here is I like Journalism but only when it suits my interests?Games journalism doesn't need to be like that though. I am all up for games journalists to report on and discover bad practices in the industry and appreciate the hard work that Jason does there. Or for feature articles on relevant websites about games.
But I just can't get behind games journalism to report on leaks two days before the event is meant to begin. It's cheap lazy journalism really disrespecting the hard work of the developers/artist/marketing teams from revealing something how they wanted too.
This is not hardcore journalism reporting about X thing happening in the world to perform a public service. It's a game reveal about a creation the 100's/1000's have tried their best to keep secret till the time they want to reveal
To the people who are worried that a leak would spoil something for them or alter their experience in an undesirable way, why are they frequenting forums like this near the time of E3, or this forum at all where leaks and rumors are always being posted year round? This is the thing I'll never understand about these types of concerns. If it means that much and people are that concerned how could you possibly justify browsing places that do exactly the very thing theyre trying to avoid? Seems like a lot of wanting to have their cake and eat it too.Okay, it's not about it being a personal "spoiler". It's about how it changes how we experience it. It's a lot more fun when we're all at the big party and we see it together live for the very first time. That's a much cooler and a much different experience than just clicking on a website on the internet and seeing a thread title.
It doesn't ruin it. It doesn't spoil E3. But it does change it and make it different and a little less fun, at least for me, and a bunch of others here in this thread. I don't think it's unfair to feel a little disappointed that something leaked.
Couldn't agree more. Such a weird thing for fans and consumers to get bent out of shape over. It's not your job (or the media's) to protect corporate marketing campaigns, it's the job of those companies to either prevent or adapt to leaks. A good start would be not being so goddamn overly secretive, and feeding in to this shitty, often fanboy/console warrior driven thirst for "megaton announcements" and shitty press conference wars.
Like what does the fact that we know the fucking name of From's next game and that GRRM is involved really spoil?
I know what Chris Nolan's next movie is called. We when know who is in it. It's not out for over a year. That's not going to stop people from being hyped as fuck when the first trailer.
Game companies should stop treating their consumers like children, and video game enthusiasts should stop acting like children.
If these reveals are causing additional crunch then just leak absolutely everything until that stops.Yes, E3 demo requires a lot of work, they have crunch too, as it's a pretty rock hard deadline, the marketing teams aren't developers, so they can't do it, they'll just use it when it's done. Why I can completely understand devs being pissed off by leaks, I certainly would be in their position.
I dont think Apple Engineers go on twitter saying how sad they are that their lastest product got leaked by the press. Or people that buy smartphones saying "THINK ABOUT THE ENGINEERS NEXT TIME YOU LEAK".
Im sure they exist out in the ether of the internet, but they do not have any real voice like you see in the games community and the backlash about announcement leaks.
Also this, it's chasing a dopamine high.It's the hype culture. Many people want to be stimulated over and over and find more enjoyment in surprises and excitement than actually playing games.
No there are very different ways to "punish" papers/sites/employees who leak these products.
It's the hype culture. Many people want to be stimulated over and over and find more enjoyment in surprises and excitement than actually playing games.
Yes, E3 demo requires a lot of work, they have crunch too, as it's a pretty rock hard deadline, the marketing teams aren't developers, so they can't do it, they'll just use it when it's done. Why I can completely understand devs being pissed off by leaks, I certainly would be in their position.
But that demo is still used for marketing. It was made for marketing.
So the main message here is I like Journalism but only when it suits my interests?
It's the hype culture. Many people want to be stimulated over and over and find more enjoyment in surprises and excitement than actually playing games.
I dont think Apple Engineers go on twitter saying how sad they are that their lastest product got leaked by the press. Or people that buy smartphones saying "THINK ABOUT THE ENGINEERS NEXT TIME YOU LEAK".
Im sure they exist out in the ether of the internet, but they do not have any real voice like you see in the games community and the backlash about announcement leaks.
Then don't do it.Tuning a section of gameplay to both work as a segment of a game and market the game to the most live eyes that will ever see it - and for the first time anyone is hearing of the game - is something only a developer can do, not a marketing department.
Man I remember when Gizmodo was (and still is) banned from all Apple conferences for leaking/or whatever that iPhone 4 they found.
Have to agree with all of this. Especially the part about altering the approach if said approach is so liable to cost devs money and resources for having info leak. Maybe stop putting so much effort into keeping everything a secret.Like many, I can see where both sides are coming from, but ultimately I think I side with Jason.
Sure, it sucks for devs if their reveal isn't done how they wanted. I can totally get this argument.
But, for one, does it really harm them? And for two, if leaks are inevitable nowadays, perhaps it's time to adjust your marketing strategy?
I'm trying to remember instances where something truly major came out of nowhere at E3, some big "HOLY SHIT WHAT" moment that no one saw coming whatsoever, and I'm drawing a blank. Maybe And personally, all my most hyped E3 moments have been stuff that was leaked or at the very least, teased in advance, or something that I knew was in the work in some way. Bloodborne, Monster Hunter World, Horizon Zero Dawn.. when the trailers hit, I already knew about those games existing in some way, and it in no way took anything out of the excitement.
Both of those were leaked, though!
So was FF7Remake and The Last Guardian, and still people went apeshit at E3.
So.... 🤷♀️
To be fair that can totally be a spoiler.Something like Gehrman or Owl or Isshin being bosses are absolutely spoilers. "Gaping Dragon", not so much.
If it costs that much money maybe its time to alter your approach and stop trying to go for shock surprises?According to this dev, yes it can and quite a bit cost wise:
From this thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ga...-leaks-impact-your-work.121723/#post-21563407
But that demo is still used for marketing. It was made for marketing.