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James Cameron relieved that Avengers: Endgame beat Avatar at the box office.

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,706
Avatar has an underwhelming and forgettable script and...IMO...poor alien design. It also has a subpar actor in the lead role. I agree it was excellent as far as tech goes.

Endgame doesn’t have any of Avatars flaws. While it’s true neither is Citizen Kane or whatever, Endgame is the better of the two movies.
Endgame has plenty of flaws including a snoozer of a 1st hour among other issues. It's not even the best comic book film. It's not like one is some flawless film, I'd say both are about the same tier I would say, Cameron is capable of better work than both of these films.

Cameron's top tier stuff like Terminator 2, Titanic, and Aliens are all better than both Avengers Infinity films and Avatar.
 
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Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,018
Richmond, VA
Endgame has plenty of flaws including a snoozer of a 1st hour among other issues. It's not even the best comic book film. It's not like one is some flawless film, I'd say both are about the same tier I would say, Cameron is capable of better work than both of these films.

Cameron's top tier stuff like Terminator 2, Titanic, and Aliens are all better than both Avengers Infinity films and Avatar.
You’re moving the goalposts. What difference does Cameron’s other movies have to do with it? We’re discussing Endgame and Avatar, and Endgame is the better of the two movies.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,706
You’re moving the goalposts. What difference does Cameron’s other movies have to do with it? We’re discussing Endgame and Avatar, and Endgame is the better of the two movies.
I wouldn't agree with that, I would say they're basically on the same level but Avatar actually has something relevant to say (ecologically) so I would say it's probably the better script.

They're both familiar stories so neither is winning shit for originality.
 

5pectre

Member
Nov 16, 2017
549
I'm still confused why anyone went to see the first Avatar.
You and me both.

It was probably because it was the first proper 3D movie and was pretty to look at but it was a cookie cutter disney template story about a disabled man, that gets a second chance in a fantasy world, who tames an untamable beast and gets to fight Duke Nukem at the end for the big W.
 

crazy monkey

Member
Nov 26, 2017
669
Refreshingly humble of him. I bet if they re-released the original like 6 months before the sequel, with all the 3D bells and whistles, and hyped the shit out of it and played it up as an opportunity to relive the spectacle now that 3D is basically dead, it’d get the #1 spot back.
They will do that. Avatar will be number 1 again.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,706
People like escaping to other worlds, if those worlds are competently designed and well visualised.

It’s that simple.

Good sci-fi is a cant miss worldwide because mind blowing visuals translate better than anything.
That and Cameron has a very strong grasp of story structure. Even if Avatar is not the most original film (neither are the Avengers pictures), you're not going to get a story that's a mess like say Jupiter Ascending or something (gorgeous sci-fi film, unbelievably wonky storytelling).

It's not just "special effects", if that was the case, studios would have a much, much easier time making money. Just throw a ton of money into your FX budget.
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,481
Under my Hela Hela
That and Cameron has a very strong grasp of story structure. Even if Avatar is not the most original film (neither are the Avengers pictures), you're not going to get a story that's a mess like say Jupiter Ascending or something (gorgeous sci-fi film, unbelievably wonky storytelling).
Yep. Cameron’s baseline is decent with stunning visuals.

Like I’m not a fan of Avatar, and there’s a lot of weird, unintentionally amusing shit, but it’s unquestionably a marquee film.
 

THEVOID

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,969
I wouldn't agree with that, I would say they're basically on the same level but Avatar actually has something relevant to say (ecologically) so I would say it's probably the better script.

They're both familiar stories so neither is winning shit for originality.

Not on the same level visually and technically, but I agree. Avatar is the better movie.

Only time will tell for Endgame but I can’t take the time machine as a major plot device to bring back characters seriously. It’s so goofy to me but people dig it I guess....
 

Laserdisk

Member
May 11, 2018
7,282
UK
He should be less worried about people going to see a film they are massively hyped for, than people going to see Avatar 2 after 11 years of antihype
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,598
I'm still confused why anyone went to see the first Avatar.
It's actually pretty obvious:


Avatar resonates with people. Endgame kind of went big and went home. Avatar is still more searched than Endgame even now it seems:


Even world wide is leaning Avatar:


Cameron did something really right it seems.
 

DopeToast

Member
Oct 27, 2017
692
I just really wish James Cameron was directing anything other than 2-4 more Avatar movies. I'd love to see him do something else.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,879
He should be less worried about people going to see a film they are massively hyped for, than people going to see Avatar 2 after 11 years of antihype
Antihype? I think worldwide there's a majority that will see this movie regardless of how people negatively felt about the first one (and that's a small group of people by comparison)


He nor the studio will be worried coming from a $2.7b movie.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,475
You’re moving the goalposts. What difference does Cameron’s other movies have to do with it? We’re discussing Endgame and Avatar, and Endgame is the better of the two movies.
Endgame will never be better than Avatar as long as it requires you to have watched Thor: The Dark World.
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,990
I am quite surprised and amused we are comparing James Camerons Avatar to end game. Like , the difference in action sequences, pacing, cinematography, direction and just overall the craft of film making are staggeringly obvious . And i dont even fuckin like Avatar or James Cameron as a director .
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,037
I think there's something special about the theatrical experience, especially on opening night. A shame that smaller movies can't really do well in theaters anymore but I'm glad that it still exists in some form.
 

Guddha

Member
Sep 5, 2019
52
Since we're on course for the Earth depicted in Avatar, it shouldn't be too hard to make the sequels resonate with audiences.
 

Laserdisk

Member
May 11, 2018
7,282
UK
Antihype? I think worldwide there's a majority that will see this movie regardless of how people negatively felt about the first one (and that's a small group of people by comparison)


He nor the studio will be worried coming from a $2.7b movie.
Time has hurt that film.
The reviews were at the time that the hype hit.
What has his name been attached to since that did anything?
Alita? Marketed on his name and died at the box office.
 

DopeToast

Member
Oct 27, 2017
692
Sounds like concern trolling. Let the man make the films he wants to make.

You would be happier if he make something he was less enthused about, so long as it was "something else"?
No, I don't mean that at all. I just mean that I really enjoy his movies in general and I'd like to see him directing something other than a sequel to Avatar. I enjoyed the first one but am just not interested in more stories in that universe. Obviously he should make what he wants to make and he knows more than I do about what is gonna sell obviously.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,994
zoe saldana is more powerful than james cameron and he should be grateful each and every day she saved his little alien moving from flopp'ding
 
Dec 12, 2017
6,819
No, I don't mean that at all. I just mean that I really enjoy his movies in general and I'd like to see him directing something other than a sequel to Avatar. I enjoyed the first one but am just not interested in more stories in that universe. Obviously he should make what he wants to make and he knows more than I do about what is gonna sell obviously.
I think that James Cameron will tell all the stories and build all the setpieces that he would have done in a bunch of other franchises or original ideas, within the world of Avatar.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,220
I think that James Cameron will tell all the stories and build all the setpieces that he would have done in a bunch of other franchises or original ideas, within the world of Avatar.
Well I think that’s what he’s getting at though: anything else Cameron would’ve done in another movie, with different characters and different environments, are now going to be put through the Avatar prism instead.
 
Dec 12, 2017
6,819
Well I think that’s what he’s getting at though: anything else Cameron would’ve done in another movie, with different characters and different environments, are now going to be put through the Avatar prism instead.
And as long as we get Cameron's vision, i will be happy, regardless of where it resides.

The action setpieces in the final act of Avatar were some of the finest of his career.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,220
And as long as we get Cameron's vision, i will be happy, regardless of where it resides.

The action setpieces in the final act of Avatar were some of the finest of his career.
the praising of Avatar's action has always been a little odd to me... won't knock the craft of it, because you can't; it's all composed and executed really well. But it's also, imo, not particularly memorable, especially compared to other setpieces Cameron has done. Like, Jake throwing the bag of grenades into Quarritch's chopper motor looked cool (for some reason this is the bit of the last act that my memory always goes to lol). But come on, nothing in Avatar comes close to something like the sinking of the Titanic!
 
Dec 12, 2017
6,819
the praising of Avatar's action has always been a little odd to me... won't knock the craft of it, because you can't; it's all composed and executed really well. But it's also, imo, not particularly memorable, especially compared to other setpieces Cameron has done. Like, Jake throwing the bag of grenades into Quarritch's chopper motor looked cool (for some reason this is the bit of the last act that my memory always goes to lol). But come on, nothing in Avatar comes close to something like the sinking of the Titanic!
That final action sequence is pretty long. There's a lot of good stuff in it.
 

DopeToast

Member
Oct 27, 2017
692
I think that James Cameron will tell all the stories and build all the setpieces that he would have done in a bunch of other franchises or original ideas, within the world of Avatar.
I hope you’re right, yeah. I’m cautiously optimistic. Actually, I’m sure it will at least be visually great. I hope the whole thing is.